TriAxis Tubes and where to get them?

[Timbre Wolf]

i have 0 experience with tubes so some of this is a bit over my head. i have tri and a 50/50. i was going to go with euro tube for the standard replacement set up. do you think this is a good place to start?
i mainly use the LD2 green and yellow, from time to time i will use the reds. i play in a metal band and this would be the primary sound i am going for. the reason i even have the tri was that i was chasing the metallica black sound but i later found i would need much than the just a tri and a good power amp. TW if you do reply just know i know nothing and i have only had this set for about 2 weeks, but any advice would be much appreciated.

thank you-
nothing

I like your moniker, nothing!

If you're certain you're wanting to go down the tube tweaking path, I'd vote against the JJ set - even though it'll be an improvement to stock tubes. As far as new-production 12AX7s go, I favor the Russian "Tung-Sol" for best clarity. But those still are not as good as "NOS" versions that you could get, with slight use (technically not "new" NOS, but old, test-new), for the same price. So if you'r serious about tube swaps, save your bux for the good old stuff - you'll hear the difference a true Tung-Sol 12AX7 makes (stellar clarity) compared to the best new-production can offer.

As for tube suggestions, I'd still suggest the same options I've already outlined on this Board, with the exception of V2, which I'd recommend a later-breakup 12AX7. Both the (original) '50s Tung-Sol 12AX7 and a '70s Tesla (not JJ) E83CC immediately come to mind for this use. If you can afford to acquire a '50s long-plate Mullard 12AX7 (not the later, short-plate versions), do try it in V4 for your Lead 2 modes: you will be pleased.

- T

 

[nothing]

thanks a lot man!

i will read through posts again and look into some pricing. i was playing tonight with the band for the first time and i noticed that the low end was kinda of thin. but i was really pleased with the tone. do you think the tube change would help this or would i just be in need of a new cab?

thaks (nothing) is the name of my band.

also i will record before and after the tube change with the same set up so other know nothings can hear the difference you advice can bring!

p[eace-
nothing

 

[bjoneill74]

Loose and muddy does not sound anywhere near to my experience with using a 12BZ7 in V5. I wonder if it is overdriving the input valve (or the PI) to your power amp (2:90, isn't it?)?

I've experienced the opposite effect from the 12BZ7 in my rig, with the Triaxis (V5 12BZ7) going to a Mesa 20/20 (with 12BZ7 as V1-input). The 12BZ7 is, for me, clean and bright, with a snappy quality that has less bass, but the lower frequencies are more clear and defined (=less flub), with a lower noise floor.

Very interesting that there are such different results. Go with what you hear, though, and I'm sorry the 12BZ7 didn't turn out as good for you as the other tubes (which I'm glad to hear are suiting you well).

- T

Yeah.. It's a totally different power amp. I hadn't yet tried the 12BZ7 in the 2:90 yet either.. just in the TriAxis. As I said I got two of them and have only tried one of the two.. so perhaps the other one will be different..
It could be a lot of different things though.. like my preset/sound preference, the guitar, the power amp, the way I play.. *shrug.. a lot of variables, but the other 4 valves have been spot on.

I'm not bummed as I have other tube amps and those things might come in handy for a particular sound I'm after..
I'm thinking that I'd like to build a small arsenal of tubes..
but for now.. my TriAxis is back to a Mesa labeled 12AX7 in V5 and I'm pleased with it.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

I'm thinking that I'd like to build a small arsenal of tubes..
but for now.. my TriAxis is back to a Mesa labeled 12AX7 in V5 and I'm pleased with it.

I've probably already warned you about how that "small arsenal of tubes" can grow:
"I can quit anytime I want"... "Hmm, I wonder what that sounds like."

Believe me, I know about small arsenals. :roll: How long can you bear to leave that Mesa 12AX7 in V5? :wink:

All right, hope I haven't crossed the line with my teasing! I'm really poking fun at myself, 'cause I can't resist the urge to tweak just one more li'l thing. :lol: Let me know if the other 12BZ7 is different (those are black-plate 12BZ7s, aren't they?). I'm curious what putting the 12BZ7 in the 2:90 does for you; if you try it, please report back.

Cheers, B!

- T

 

[Timbre Wolf]

i was playing tonight with the band for the first time and i noticed that the low end was kinda of thin. but i was really pleased with the tone. do you think the tube change would help this or would i just be in need of a new cab?

There can be several reasons for lacking low-end punch. Yes, it could be related to preamp tubes, and I've noticed that current-production tubes generally have ill-defined lows, compared to the better NOS options. But you're also correct in considering your speakers and/or cab, which have a huge impact on your overall sound. Also consider your power tubes, and whether they're really running at the best bias point for your amp. The power supply and output transformer also influence low-end punch. But the tubes and speakers are the easiest link to try to change.

What cabs and speakers are you using?

I'd just caution you to make these changes within the band context, so you can let your bass player take up the proper bass-space (in other words, don't try to take up too much of that sonic turf).

thaks (nothing) is the name of my band.

That reminds me of a dream I had, a long time ago: I had written a book entitled "Nothing About Nothing" But when I awoke, I couldn't remember if I had actually written a lot about topics other than "nothing," or if it was really a philosophical ode to Zen-like emptiness (replete with blank-pages); a reference manual of no-thingness. Made me think!

also i will record before and after the tube change with the same set up so other know nothings can hear the difference you advice can bring!

Excellent!! That'll be a great reference to hear!

Cheers, to you too!!

- T

 

[bjoneill74]

I've probably already warned you about how that "small arsenal of tubes" can grow:
"I can quit anytime I want"... "Hmm, I wonder what that sounds like."

Believe me, I know about small arsenals. :roll: How long can you bear to leave that Mesa 12AX7 in V5? :wink:

All right, hope I haven't crossed the line with my teasing! I'm really poking fun at myself, 'cause I can't resist the urge to tweak just one more li'l thing. :lol: Let me know if the other 12BZ7 is different (those are black-plate 12BZ7s, aren't they?). I'm curious what putting the 12BZ7 in the 2:90 does for you; if you try it, please report back.

Cheers, B!

- T

Hahahaha.. well.. I'm certainly saying small arsenal with a bit of sarcasm.
It's just one of the many services I freely offer.
As for the mesa tube in V5.. I wouldn't say the 12BZ7 was bad.. it just wasn't what I expected or want for that band. I'll try the other one. Yes.. they are black-plate.
<a href="http://www.gerbhost.net/~bjoneill/tewb/alltubes.jpg">PIC</a> It's the one on the left.. looks black plate to me.. The orange labeled one has an identical plate in color and such.. looks like the same tube aside from the label.
It's hard to describe the sound.. but it seemed to have lost gain, clarity and such.

I'll definitely get to the 2:90.. I'm waiting to get my hands on the Mullards for the phase inverters. I am feeling a bit lazy to take that weighty beast out of the rack.

 

[bjoneill74]

thanks a lot man!

i will read through posts again and look into some pricing. i was playing tonight with the band for the first time and i noticed that the low end was kinda of thin. but i was really pleased with the tone. do you think the tube change would help this or would i just be in need of a new cab?

thaks (nothing) is the name of my band.

also i will record before and after the tube change with the same set up so other know nothings can hear the difference you advice can bring!

p[eace-
nothing

Is it a newer or older 50/50.. if newer.. does it have 6L6's or EL 34's in it?
I had an older 50/50 before getting the 2:90 and it had plenty of thump/punch to it. I have always used closed back 2x12's with it until recently getting 2 closed back 4x12's..
The open back stuff sounds good too, but very different..
My LoneStar is 1/2 open back and it sounds great to me.

What cabinets are you using and what are they loaded with?

Brian

 

[Timbre Wolf]

looks black plate to me.. The orange labeled one has an identical plate in color and such.. looks like the same tube aside from the label.

That 12BZ7 looks like my black-plate examples - at least some of them. It is difficult for me to be confident about who actually made these tubes. I believe they're either GE, RCA and/or Sylvania. But I've got "RCA"-labeled samples with the GE etched dots and lettering, "GE"-labled samples with Sylvania's EIA code (312), etc. The same inner structure (plate, getter wire, etc.) appears in tubes labeled RCA, GE, Sylvania, GM-Delco, CBS/Hytron, Philco, Dumont, and Zenith. And there are three getter-wire types: halo, angled-square, and horseshoe. It is a mess to really tell them apart, but in my experience, all these black-plate 12BZ7 have behaved similarly enough to just lump them all in one group.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that your second 12BZ7 gives you the same results in your setup. I'll have to take note of that, and qualify any recommendations I offer people.

- T

 

[bjoneill74]

That 12BZ7 looks like my black-plate examples - at least some of them. It is difficult for me to be confident about who actually made these tubes. I believe they're either GE, RCA and/or Sylvania. But I've got "RCA"-labeled samples with the GE etched dots and lettering, "GE"-labled samples with Sylvania's EIA code (312), etc. The same inner structure (plate, getter wire, etc.) appears in tubes labeled RCA, GE, Sylvania, GM-Delco, CBS/Hytron, Philco, Dumont, and Zenith. And there are three getter-wire types: halo, angled-square, and horseshoe. It is a mess to really tell them apart, but in my experience, all these black-plate 12BZ7 have behaved similarly enough to just lump them all in one group.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that your second 12BZ7 gives you the same results in your setup. I'll have to take note of that, and qualify any recommendations I offer people.

- T[/quote]

I'm sure it's a matter of taste more than anything else..
The other tubes have dramitically improved everything in my opinion.
There were of course gain and eq changes.
Adding the older tubes actually increased percieved distortion amounts/crunch.. I actually trimmed the gain back on a few patch/presets.
I even had to alter some of effects wet/dry ratios as the newer tubes helped bring the effects out much better (I'm not using the loop).. I have everything run into the next.

Guitar > Dunlop Wah > Danelectro Back Talk > Ernie Ball Volume > TriAxis > Alesis Q2 > Eventide Eclipse > 2:90 > 2 Mesa 4x12's

 

[nothing]

unfortunately for now all i have is a jublie 2x12 (whichi honestly think has a lot to do with it)

the 50/50 the old hi/lo power 6L6, this has mesa tubes

the triaxis 2.0 has electro harmonix tubes

i play a ESP KH-2 with emg-81's

i think have settled on either a marshall or mesa with vintage 30's

the band name came from no being able to think and saying F-it and call it nothing

thanks for the help!

 

[Timbre Wolf]

I even had to alter some of effects wet/dry ratios as the newer tubes helped bring the effects out much better

That was my experience, with effects, as well. It wasn't a conscious change, so much, but I just found that the effects were not as appealing as my un-effected sound. My taste has gone toward the cleaner side of things, as well, over the years, so I've turned the gain and drive settings down quite a bit.

- T

 

[bjoneill74]

unfortunately for now all i have is a jublie 2x12 (whichi honestly think has a lot to do with it)

the 50/50 the old hi/lo power 6L6, this has mesa tubes

the triaxis 2.0 has electro harmonix tubes

i play a ESP KH-2 with emg-81's

i think have settled on either a marshall or mesa with vintage 30's

the band name came from no being able to think and saying F-it and call it nothing

thanks for the help!

yep.. probably the cabs.. the V30's were a shocker.. I have 2 no name (BLB) 2x12's with Celestion GT1275's in them. And they were far more scooped and seemingly bass heavy with chugging style playing than the Mesa 4x12's..
I got the standard cabs as well.. They were less bass heavy than the 2x12's and they have much much more mid presence to them (V-30's).
I had to actually scoop a bit of my mids out. I like a lot of mids, but switching to the v30 cabs made the sounds kind of honk-ish..
They are great now that I've done some eq changes.
I've found EMG pickups to be a bit harsh as well.. I prefer non-active pickups, but I can't imagine them being an issue with low end response unless the battery was dead.

Brian

 

[bjoneill74]

That was my experience, with effects, as well. It wasn't a conscious change, so much, but I just found that the effects were not as appealing as my un-effected sound. My taste has gone toward the cleaner side of things, as well, over the years, so I've turned the gain and drive settings down quite a bit.

- T

I have definitely shied away from a lot of gain on the lead/solo sounds..
I am using the LD2 Yellow Mode for most soloing style stuff and the gain isn't all that high.. It just sings.. and provides plenty of sustain and ability to cut..
My cleans I've actually upped the gain a bit to color them and give them an ever so subtle bit of attitude when I dig in.
I've also been using a lot more in the way of somewhat hybrid clean/middle gain sound.
The band I'm currently in has some metal / prog rock roots.. so my main crunch settings are LD 2 Red and a fair bit of gain and such.. I like it a bit focused yet powerfull and as throaty as I can get them. When I back off of the volume it starts to clean up.. so it's by no means a buzz saw style crunch.

 

[masque]

this is one of the neatest threads I have ever read on any message board!!! I'm going to try to soak all of this in and make some changes once I figure out what I need to do. lots of info and opinions to digest.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

this is one of the neatest threads I have ever read on any message board!!! I'm going to try to soak all of this in and make some changes once I figure out what I need to do. lots of info and opinions to digest.

:mrgreen:

 

[masque]

this is one of the neatest threads I have ever read on any message board!!! I'm going to try to soak all of this in and make some changes once I figure out what I need to do. lots of info and opinions to digest.

:mrgreen:

Timber Wolf my friend I am highly impressed with your tube knowldege and I am very anxious to delve into some of this stuff....I hope you wont mind answering questions for me later on though!!!! :shock:

 

[Timbre Wolf]

....I hope you wont mind answering questions for me later on though!!!! :shock:

Fire away, when you're ready, and I'll do my best.

- Thom

 

[masque]

....I hope you wont mind answering questions for me later on though!!!! :shock:

Fire away, when you're ready, and I'll do my best.

- Thom

i just posted in a thread about the JJ kits from eurotubes. What is your opinion on the JJ kits from eurotubes....are they better than the tubes you get from Mesa? I understand you have posted your favorite tubes but was curious about what you thought about the JJ kits.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

i just posted in a thread about the JJ kits from eurotubes. What is your opinion on the JJ kits from eurotubes....are they better than the tubes you get from Mesa? I understand you have posted your favorite tubes but was curious about what you thought about the JJ kits.

I'm not qualified to judge Eurotubes' JJ kits, since I've not tried them out myself. I have used JJ tubes (pre and power), and, in general, find them to be noticeably "murky," lacking clarity, and having a narrower range of frequency response. But this is only relative to the very finest NOS tubes I can muster, so its a highly demanding standard.

I'm confident that the kits are an improvement over Mesa's stock offering.

For new-production 12AX7, I am quite fond of the Russian "Tung-Sol." It has the qualities (clarity, dynamics, punch) I like in a good tube. Just don't compare it side-by-side with a genuine Tung-Sol 12AX7, as the NOS will be the clear (pun intended) winner. The New Sensor "Tung-Sol" is not a "reissue" at all: it does not look like the genuine article, nor does it behave as well, but it is more reminiscent than other new-production 12AX7s.

- T

 

[masque]

i just posted in a thread about the JJ kits from eurotubes. What is your opinion on the JJ kits from eurotubes....are they better than the tubes you get from Mesa? I understand you have posted your favorite tubes but was curious about what you thought about the JJ kits.

I'm not qualified to judge Eurotubes' JJ kits, since I've not tried them out myself. I have used JJ tubes (pre and power), and, in general, find them to be noticeably "murky," lacking clarity, and having a narrower range of frequency response. But this is only relative to the very finest NOS tubes I can muster, so its a highly demanding standard.

I'm confident that the kits are an improvement over Mesa's stock offering.

For new-production 12AX7, I am quite fond of the Russian "Tung-Sol." It has the qualities (clarity, dynamics, punch) I like in a good tube. Just don't compare it side-by-side with a genuine Tung-Sol 12AX7, as the NOS will be the clear (pun intended) winner. The New Sensor "Tung-Sol" is not a "reissue" at all: it does not look like the genuine article, nor does it behave as well, but it is more reminiscent than other new-production 12AX7s.

- T

ok thanks.....you did say you didnt mind answering my many questions right!!! :roll: right! anyway, when you talk about tubes the things you like sonically seem to be really what I am seeking. when I looked through your previous posts I was a bit overwhelmed on how to actually find the tubes of choice (even though you suggest places to visit).....i think if my memory serves me correctly there was one of the tubes that seemed to be easy enough to find....but the others were more difficult to find........so, let me ask this and I swear I am not trying to be lazy....but what would be your top choices be to go into the triaxis and 20/20 from "easy to find" tubes. that might be a huge help to me. sorry to keep bugging you!!!!