The Mark V90, Longest running Mark Series to date

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I am surprised that nobody found my mistake, I do not mind being corrected. The Mark V90 was not the longest running Mark amp. I was wrong in making that claim. It has only been in production for 14 years.

Looking back at the Mark IV (in general terms) that ran for 18 years. However, there are two versions of the Mark IV, Mark IVa from 1990 to 1993, and then the Mark IVb from 1993 to 2008. I was off by a year as 15 years is greater than 14 years. I don't know my Mesa history or can I do simple math. My bad. 18 years is also longer than 14 years if I look at the series as a whole. So it is not the longest running mark amp to date. Not that it really matters. Just pointing out I made a mistake.
 
I am surprised that nobody found my mistake, I do not mind being corrected. The Mark V90 was not the longest running Mark amp. I was wrong in making that claim. It has only been in production for 14 years.

Looking back at the Mark IV (in general terms) that ran for 18 years. However, there are two versions of the Mark IV, Mark IVa from 1990 to 1993, and then the Mark IVb from 1993 to 2008. I was off by a year as 15 years is greater than 14 years. I don't know my Mesa history or can I do simple math. My bad. 18 years is also longer than 14 years if I look at the series as a whole. So it is not the longest running mark amp to date. Not that it really matters. Just pointing out I made a mistake.
Nope, that's it bandit, all credibility now gone 😉

Looking forward to hearing this video if you get a chance!
 
According to the serial number chart, Mark III amps were made from Mar. 1985 - Oct. 1999, which is also 14 years. I don't know if Mesa plans on discontinuing the Mark V anytime soon. The feature sets are really quite different.
 
Give Mesa another year to match the Mark IVb run of 15 years. There are some differences other that the size of the amp between the Mark IVa and IVb versions. Hard to account for the full 18 years as they changed the amp. Just a technicality.

However, I was sort of waiting on the order I placed from TubeDepot. Thinking the JJ E83CC-12AX7 frame grid tubes would be comparable to the Square Foil Getter Chinese tubes Mesa used back in 1990. I wonder what preamp tubes they used in 1982. Anyhow, the order arrived today but instead of the E83CC tubes, I got E88CC tubes instead. WTF? Those are not compatible with 12AX7 tubes. I honestly did not know there was such a thing E88CC. Yep, 6DJ8 is the alternate. Gain of 20 and not pin compatible based on how the heater is connected. Damn tube almost looks identical to the Mesa branded JJECc83s tube. Now I got to go through the mess of sending them back for exchange of the proper tube.

20230830_193745.jpg


I will see if I can find all of the recording gear and get it all set up. Camera and tri-pod not an issue, getting the interface to work between the camera and the mixer is the huge mess to deal with. Trying to record video with just the cell phone or using the mic on the video camera is pointless. At the moment the dog is still going nuts over the heavy rain bands from the left-over ruminants of hurricane Idalia. Just waiting for the tornado warning to expire as part of the hurricane advisory. Sure, I go on vacation only to have it spoiled by weather. It is not really the weather that is the issue but the dog going into berserker mode.
 
Ciao Hello, I had problems exactly today with the Mark v footswitch.
I can tell you after several attempts, that the problem was in the central pin of the dpdt of the eq switch . The track (ground) was no longer in contact. I solved it by creating a bridge with a wire to ground.
I had issues with the EQ on my footswitch as well. I always thought it might be the connector pin in the footswitch that maybe wasn’t making a good contact with the cable as wiggling the cable would bring it back. I imagine tightening the pins in the F/S connector would fix it but obviously Mesa used a poor quality connector because it is a common issue. I only used the EQ for CH 3 anyway so just hard set CH3 to EQ on and didn’t worry about it after.
 
I've often felt the power section of the V:90 doesn't get the credit it deserves. Running other preamps thru it just creates multiple NADs :)
My Quad Pre sounded fantastic through the V as power. The different voicing settings on Ch 3 had great effect on the power section. Extreme really brought the beef for the external preamp. Having a power amp where you could switch in a tube rectifier and 10 or 45 watts, adjust voltage. Very versatile. If they made a stereo poweramp that was basically the V’s architecture, I’d be all over it.
 
Mr Bandit2013: did I read in one of your posts that you have experienced problems with the footswitch of the Mark5? I've had problems with the EQ function only on 2 different footswitches! First one I ruined trying to change the DPDT eq switch.The second brand new one from Mesa worked fine until it started glitching on EQ only once again. Gently wiggling the cable to footswitch connection sometimes solves the problem temporarily. Obviously the cable connector or the footswitch jack? or could it be more complicated? P.S. Your recent posts have been incredibly informative: keep them coming!
Sorry if I missed your message.
Yeah, about that. Odd that the Mark V90 seems to be prone for footswitch issues. The same sort of method is used with the Roadster especially the nontraditional use of the LM3914 which is an LED bar graph driver. It basically changes channels based on a voltage on one of the pins in the cable. Not great if for long cable runs. DC voltages are not ideal on long runs. I guess 28ft or whatever the length of that din cable is is ok. Never had an issue with the Roadster footswitch for as long as I have had that amp. The Mark V90, once someone posted the issue, I was sure to have a similar problem.

I took my footswitch apart but was not easy to slide the board out as it is held tight in an extruded aluminum frame. My first thought was a bad or weak ground connection. Was able to fix that but did not take long for other issues to crop up. I found I cannot use the Mark V90 without the footswitch connected. It gets lost for what channel to be in. Perhaps it is time to clean the contacts of the footswitch selector control on the back side of the amp. I figured why not place the focus on the Mark V90 in a separate thread than mix it in with the Mark VII.

Also, I have no knowledge of any changes or improvements to the current Mark V90 platform. My only reference to this amp is an old schematic and a 2012 model that I never really bonded with. I still question why I held onto this amp in the first place. I guess I like to be challenged in some ways. Since it was one of my least favorite amps, it was ok for me to dig into this thing and learn something about what makes it different than the previous Mark amps. Not a good platform to learn from due to its complexity and densely populated preamp board. It was a fun experiment to learn from. I do not recommend using this amp as a learning tool for experimental exploration of electronics. Sure it has some weaknesses as do any other amp of this nature. That is part of the experience and some of it I wish I never encountered. Historically Mesa was one company that listened to their customers praise or complaints. Not sure where they are now at this point in time. It does seem like they are still working on new products, Badlander was one of them that I got hooked on immediately once I got it out of the box it shipped in. The JP2C was sort of in that category but faded once I did a power tube replacement to the STR443. The Mark V90 was the only problem child I encountered thus far so perhaps some patience paid off but it still has its functional issues to deal with. I can easily turn into an ugly troll on the Mark V90 but would rather refrain from doing so.

I too have felt there may be an issue with the DIN connector used to couple the cable and to complete the circuit at the other end with the footswitch with the same DIN connector. Yep, I have had issues with the EQ not functioning with the footswitch. Sometimes it works and sometimes it does nothing at all. It lights up on the footswitch but not on the amp. Note, the LED just turns on and off, does not mean the change in the signal is reaching the amp. Trying to change the connector on the amp itself would be a bear to attempt.

I have used the same cable with the Roadster as well as the Mark V90, they are the same cable. It also looks like the amps have the same DIN connectors. So why one never having issues and the other seems to be prone to problems. Too bad the schematic for the footswitch or the switching circuitry for the Mark V90 is not available. So, when you move the cable to get it to work, is it the pint to fork contact inside the DIN connector, is it a bad wire connection in the cable or is it a bad solder joint on the PCB to the DIN connector? Bad design? or all of the above? Just search the forums and one of the more common issues is with the Footswitch. Wonder if the grounding connection on the back of the unit will work. The Mark V90 does have an external ground switch jack on the back panel. That was one feature I never tried. Not sure if it is compatible with the footswitch in use.
Copied from the manual: description of the back panel features.

Four ¼” EXTERNAL SWITCHING phono jacks are provided for remote control of the MARK V Channels, EQ and SOLO control from a master (possibly midi controlled) switcher. This feature is extremely important if the MARK V is to be used in a live stage set-up where all amplifiers and processors are controlled under one keystroke from a programmable master switching device. NOTE: The four EXT SWITCHING jacks respond to standard grounding type (tip to ground) latching (not momentary) logic. This switching logic is standard on most master switching units.

Manual does not indicate if external control can be used with the footswitch connected.

At one point I gave up on using the footswitch as it sometimes did not always behave, it would randomly change channels or turn off features I set to be enabled. Yeah, cable movement was part of the issue. Running the amp in Variac power mode was the other. Too much relay chatter and lack of stability. Now I have to have the damn thing plugged into the amp for it to work. the rotary channel selection control does not always work. The more I think of the issues I have had with this amp the closer it gets to the back door to the curbside. Sorry, I am getting negative on this. In short, I basically gave up on the Mark V90 in its entirety. It sat in storage for most of the time I have owned it. Only recently found some interest in this amp since the arrival of the Mark VII. Wanted to explore the differences between the two amps and discover what is similar. Since I never cared much for the boxy ice pick character of the V90, I wanted to at least compare it to the Mark VII without getting annoyed. That is when I decided to make use of the STR441 power tubes I had bought a few years ago. Never tried those in the V and when I did that changed more than I expected. Explored some possible preamp tube changes and that got me to posting this thread.
 
I did get the replacement tubes from TubeDepot. That was quicker than expected. This time they sent me the correct E83CC tubes. Will get to them perhaps tomorrow but doubt I will make another video. Doing the video stuff or comparing amps is not for me. It gets boring. I hope it was somewhat useful to those who go through the torture of my lack of playing skills. As it seems when the camera is on, I loose focus on what I want to do and well, act like a fool or forget how to play the guitar.
 
I have thought about doing something different with the Mark V90. I sort of talked myself out of doing it as I thought mine was more unique, call it the ice pick Mammoth. Yes, I have modified my Mark V which was disclosed in the Saturation mod thread. Nothing major really but not required for most to try. However, all of the mods I made were restorable. At least soldering the parts back in were easy for one but not for the other. The mods I am referencing are the removal of the control grid to cathode capacitors on V4B, and V6A. Do not remove the cap on V6A!!! That would be C44. Nothing to gain or lose with that. Leave V6A as is. It is not the source of ice pick for the lead channel.

The other cap was C39. Its removal will make the CH3 much brighter but aided to fix the ice pick and boxy tone. This one is very difficult to restore which I did as I was going to sell the Mark V90.
However, Brandon Breeze shared a video or has one on his youtube channel regarding the most hated Mark amp. Reason I bring it up, it was the Mark V90. His was brittle as all hell but not quite as bad as mine is. Perhaps there is merit to do a tube roll video, explore some different preamp tubes and how it affects tweed, edge, and all of CH3 which in my opinion are just terrible. Not only will this run some easy to change preamp tubes, I will also explore the Saturation Mod thread with the JAN/Phillips 12AT7 and then repeat the whole process with C39 removed. (I am just going to cut one leg on the cap and lift it so I can resolder that afterwards, or just remove it and leave it out. I do not have the 120pF in there as the original part, I dropped the value down to 47pF which was a slight improvement but not enough. Wonder if I have any 250pF caps to play with, that is what is used on the Mark IVB : V4A would be the equivalent triode to the Mark V V4B. Also, the Mark IVB has a larger cathode bypass cap of 2.2uF vs the 0.22uF. That difference is made up for with the V6A triode circuit. Any changes on the bypass cap will make the amp muddy. I tried and it did not work out well.

What you heard in the Mark V to Mark VII comparison was the ice pick Mark V but with all of the Mesa 12AX7 tubes removed and replaced with other tubes. V1 Sevetlana 12AX7 (this is not a NOS SED tube). Why this made a difference? I lost the low frequency hum I was getting on the clean channel. It was that annoying I never used CH1. Tweed was also ice pick along with the low frequency hum. The Svetlana cured it. Not much different than the Mullard CV4004 or Tung Sol 12AX7 but it does not have the same gain factor I suppose.

Phase inverter position: Mullard reissue long plate 12AX7A. I have a few balanced triode versions of these. They are fuller sounding than the Sovtek LPS tubes. Subjective as it may be, I feel the Mullard does a good job as a phase inverter tube. Sovtek is a bit thin sounding. V2 for that crunch, Tung Sol 12AX7 works great but I had a Mullard CV4004 in the video. Very similar to the TS but slightly different tone. That is not what fixed the ice pick issue with Edge. Some of this was in part to the Svetlana tube in V1. V3 through V6 were Chinese 6N4-J tubes (Military Grade) often referenced as the Beijing Square Foil getter. Mesa used these tubes in the late 1980s as they were stock tubes in my Mark III combo. I never heard the Tungsram in any amp. I still have a good handful of the Mesa branded Beijing tubes and bought some of the Ruby versions a few years ago. The Beijing tube in V3 helped to curb the bottom end bloom on the clean channel, made it much tigher. Also fixed the soupy bottom end on CH3 so no mud. Also helps that the bulk of CH3 is all Beijing tubes. Some hated these in the IIC+. I ran them in the Mark IVb and thought they were great, after I got the Mark V. They do sound fizzy in the JP2C though. Roadster and the cathode follower positions was also a good move. Anyways more focus on the Mark V90, can I achieve my goal and bonding with it or does it still sit in the sell it or dumpster it. If such a video is possible to accomplish, hopefully one can hear the ice pick tones, compared to the saturation mod, to the lets mod the amp and remove C39 (sort of takes a step back to the Mark IVA and earlier). The negative feedback circuit used in the V90 on the lead drive circuit is also different than the early Marks. Perhaps someday I will look into that if I keep the amp long enough, there is reason for the change, not sure what though. For now, keep it simple. My next vacation comes up in November so that would give me time to work on such a video. Those that have a great sounding Mark amp, it probably will not help you with anything. If you got one of the ice pick models, it may help you. Bummer it requires unobtanium tubes (Beijing 6N4-J tubes, they were out of production since 1990-ish).
 
Bandit2013 thank you for creating this thread. Your years of experience with Boogies and knowledge is very insightful. I'm surprised that Randall and his team came out with a Mark V 90 that sounded boxy with the combo and had some ice pick issues. I went to a music store last year and played a Mark V combo with a Vintage 60's Fender Stratocaster II and a Heritage 335. Both my friend and I found that we did care for the sound of the Mark V. We heard the boxy sound and some ice pick making us disappointed. I also heard from several others that there were quality issues with their Mark V's as well. It made me think why not have a larger interior for the Mark V, spread out sensitive components in the larger frame and put it in a 23" cab instead of the 19". It would make it easier to service it, and some more sensitive components would not get as hot.

After your repairs, changing of tubes, etc. I am glad you were able to improve upon the sound of the Mark V. I also enjoyed the video comparison's between your improved Mark V vs the Mark VII. It seems the Mark VII has a little more open top end than the Mark V. When I go to the music store on Wednesday to pickup the amp, before I leave the store, I want to test each channel and mode. Especially channel 1's volume vs 2 and 3. I hope that the quality control of this amp is better than the Mark V. In all my tests of the Mark VII, it did not have the boxy sound or ice pick issue of the Mark V. I tried at least 4 different Mark VII's out and they all appeared to have a consistent sound.

I loved the Mark III with the wicker grill and the red/brown color of the wood sides and top. The Mark VII seems to offer the wicker grills, but its with the black vinyl and a brownish handle that just does not go with well with the rest of the amp. Looks like I will be sticking with the standard black amp.
 
I hope you are keeping your Mark III amp. Even if you need to do a capacitor replacement job sometime down the road, it is the closest thing to a IIC+ you will get.

My Mark V90 was originally a head. That was the plan but had some issues with it. After I bought the Roadster and Royal Atlantic I was running those amps more and set aside the Mark V90 for future fixing. We are not talking about just ice pick tones, this is ear drilling broken glass sound. That was with the treble and gain at 9am on CH3. Mark IV and Extreme were the worse. IIC+ was ok but weak on the gain and tone density. Edge and tweed were also ice pick modes I could not stand, The clean and fat had this low frequency hum that was louder than the guitar signal. All I could use was Crunch.

Just when the saturation mod was posted by APEMAN. is about the time I was looking at the bias voltage and found it only matched the print when in Variac power. That is what resulted in power tube failures. 90W was much brigther in tone and Variac was less bright. From that point onward, running at 90W was the only way to ensure was not going to rep plate the power tubes. That did not last very long, Wanted to try the Mesa STR440 tubes again, poof, did not last more than 30 seconds. Bias was way off. At least the SED=C= 6L6GC held up. I eventually did change the bias to increase the negative voltage a small amount. In reality, the bias needs to be measured at the tube and not at the place where it is created. I may go back and address that again but for now the amp is working well.

It was when I tried to slave the V90 into the Roadster is when it became apparent where the ice pick was coming from, the preamp. I had made assumptions it was due to bias or something power tube related. Not. The Mark III would be much easier to work on than any of the more modern amps. Here is a gut shot of Mark V90 vs Mark VII. Neither of them look accommodating for repair.

The Mark V90 chassis:

20190630_111621.jpg


The Mark VII chassis:

20230820_103549.jpg


Considering the simplicity of the JP2C, that too is a tight package.

JP2C chassis:
20180128_135434.jpg


Not an easy fixer-upper.

Trick with the Mark V90 is more or less preamp tube selection. It can be tuned more so than the other amps. Also I may end up with a tube roll video exploring the potential of preamp tube selection, what does the Saturation mod do, And what happens when C39 is removed. I have restored that cap but want to hear it without it in the circuit again. V1 and V3 are the key to some of the ice pick. That was proven in the video comparison between V90 and VII. I actually like edge mode and tweed but that was after going to some old tubes Mesa used to use in the 1990s. Beijing 6N4-J square foil getter tubes. Tightens up the low end so not as flubby, also fixes the ice pick. V1 being a lower gain 12AX7 (Svetlana which is basically a slight change to the Mullard CV4004 or Tung Sol 12AX7 which are made by the same company brokered by New Sensor, Aka Sovtek or Reflektor. ) then to shore up the final stage, a Mullard reissue long plate 12AX7 which is a better version of the Sovtek LPS. So with that on board, I could easily regain some of the top airy end the Mark VII has by removal of the C39 cap, 120pF (connects the grid to cathode on V4B). The Mark IVB also had a boxy sound to it on the lead channel. That amp has a 250pf cab on the grid to cathode of the same triode in the design but different tube location. I would not go into cutting out parts. I will see for myself first. As for the Mark VII, have no clue what is used in that one. No schematic available to review. JP2C, no way is that there. If it is a recreation of the IIC+, they did not use that trick on the last gain stage of the lead drive circuit. However, it is unclear what other mods Mesa did to the IIC+ or IIC++ some had different parts if Simul-Class or Class A/B.
 
I hope you are keeping your Mark III amp. Even if you need to do a capacitor replacement job sometime down the road, it is the closest thing to a IIC+ you will get.

My Mark V90 was originally a head. That was the plan but had some issues with it. After I bought the Roadster and Royal Atlantic I was running those amps more and set aside the Mark V90 for future fixing. We are not talking about just ice pick tones, this is ear drilling broken glass sound. That was with the treble and gain at 9am on CH3. Mark IV and Extreme were the worse. IIC+ was ok but weak on the gain and tone density. Edge and tweed were also ice pick modes I could not stand, The clean and fat had this low frequency hum that was louder than the guitar signal. All I could use was Crunch.

Just when the saturation mod was posted by APEMAN. is about the time I was looking at the bias voltage and found it only matched the print when in Variac power. That is what resulted in power tube failures. 90W was much brigther in tone and Variac was less bright. From that point onward, running at 90W was the only way to ensure was not going to rep plate the power tubes. That did not last very long, Wanted to try the Mesa STR440 tubes again, poof, did not last more than 30 seconds. Bias was way off. At least the SED=C= 6L6GC held up. I eventually did change the bias to increase the negative voltage a small amount. In reality, the bias needs to be measured at the tube and not at the place where it is created. I may go back and address that again but for now the amp is working well.

It was when I tried to slave the V90 into the Roadster is when it became apparent where the ice pick was coming from, the preamp. I had made assumptions it was due to bias or something power tube related. Not. The Mark III would be much easier to work on than any of the more modern amps. Here is a gut shot of Mark V90 vs Mark VII. Neither of them look accommodating for repair.

The Mark V90 chassis:

View attachment 2280

The Mark VII chassis:

View attachment 2281

Considering the simplicity of the JP2C, that too is a tight package.

JP2C chassis:
View attachment 2282

Not an easy fixer-upper.

Trick with the Mark V90 is more or less preamp tube selection. It can be tuned more so than the other amps. Also I may end up with a tube roll video exploring the potential of preamp tube selection, what does the Saturation mod do, And what happens when C39 is removed. I have restored that cap but want to hear it without it in the circuit again. V1 and V3 are the key to some of the ice pick. That was proven in the video comparison between V90 and VII. I actually like edge mode and tweed but that was after going to some old tubes Mesa used to use in the 1990s. Beijing 6N4-J square foil getter tubes. Tightens up the low end so not as flubby, also fixes the ice pick. V1 being a lower gain 12AX7 (Svetlana which is basically a slight change to the Mullard CV4004 or Tung Sol 12AX7 which are made by the same company brokered by New Sensor, Aka Sovtek or Reflektor. ) then to shore up the final stage, a Mullard reissue long plate 12AX7 which is a better version of the Sovtek LPS. So with that on board, I could easily regain some of the top airy end the Mark VII has by removal of the C39 cap, 120pF (connects the grid to cathode on V4B). The Mark IVB also had a boxy sound to it on the lead channel. That amp has a 250pf cab on the grid to cathode of the same triode in the design but different tube location. I would not go into cutting out parts. I will see for myself first. As for the Mark VII, have no clue what is used in that one. No schematic available to review. JP2C, no way is that there. If it is a recreation of the IIC+, they did not use that trick on the last gain stage of the lead drive circuit. However, it is unclear what other mods Mesa did to the IIC+ or IIC++ some had different parts if Simul-Class or Class A/B.
Hey Bandit..just to finish this conversation off...I DID go Mark IVB. I got the V into what I thought was its best playing shape and fell in love with the tones I got, but had to go IVB, for that Hard Rock sound i was talking about...I am in love...and the V's tones...I matched all of them in 1 hour of having the ivB...and am getting more...I especially love the way you can open the tone up with a push of a knob. (and it is the power section that is drastically different...there is a squishiness NOT in the V..AT ALL..you can get MOST of the sound of a IV in a V..MOST>>NOT ALL...I cannot say it is so the other way around!!(Having the IV I am more impressed with the V...not enough to keep it though.)...Have a good one all...and sorry if my playing offended you...I do play rough I have been told...i really didnt mean to piss in your wheaties! Enjoy your V's (and if anyone is interested..I bought a IVB combo and am selling my V off.(90 watt will fit the chassis of the IVb combo).either head or Combo with a black shadow..hit me up..it is in excellent condition with USEFUL mods (physical NOT circuitry) (although the 12 volt diodes are fixed and i can do the footswitch ground of you want)
 
That is great you got what you wanted out of the Mark IVB. That amp is very close to the Mark V90 but with differences. I only really used the lead drive on the Mark IVB as I felt the other channels were not to my liking.

There is one thing you can do with the Mark IVB you cannot do with the V90, (first read the manual in the section that provides details on power tube selection as I do not remember where the Class A sockets are, probably the outer pair).

Run that with 6L6GC and EL34 tubes.

What was even better was a pair of SED =C=6L6GC tubes and a pair of TAD 6L6GCSTR black plate tubes. That had the best sound I ever heard from any amp to date. Too bad that both of those tubes are now out of production.
 
I am getting the feeling that the Mark V90 will be fading out soon. I cannot seem to find the Mark V90 listed on many sites that sell the Mesa product. Also, Mesa has it marked as a reduced price for the 90W head. Sort of those signs to eliminate inventory before they drop the product. I will not miss it. The mini Marks like the V:25 or V:35 may still be lingering around for a while. I have no concrete proof the Mark V90 is going away. I am just seeing those details that may suggest it is on the way-out sort of like they did with the Express and Lone-Star shortly after the Filmore product has been in production.
 
I checked at Sweetwater, where I got my Mark V 90, and they don't even have the head listed anymore, and the only combos they have are special order colors. There is no standard "black", so I would wager the end of 2023 is the end of standard production.

They are also blowing out Mark Five - 35 combos in black taurus for $560 less than the ones in black bronco.
 
I am not trying to make a rumor out of this, it is just an observation. It will be interesting to see how things pan out in 2024. Perhaps after 14 years it is time to phase it out since they now have the new Mark VII. I would not be surprised if other changes take place in 2024. Curious to see what happens next.
 
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