LSC/LSS owners; are you happy with channel2?Want to fix it?

[Charles Reeder]

Hey 'blues57'

Regarding: The 'thump' when switching to 'DRIVE' on channel-2...and doing a mod to make the 'DRIVE' foot-switchable.

You wrote:
"hi charles

no 'thump' for me, this was made by a pro and it's working perfectly only a difference in volume when i activate the drive. I'm asking the guy who's done it if i can post this mod.

jerome"

Hey...That's some great news! We will all be eagerly awaiting your posting!
I really hope the guy who did your mod will be willing to tell how it's done and allow you to post it.

(If) he does allow you to post it...I suggest that you start your own thread...detailing the 'mod'.
Why? I'm afraid the 'DRIVE' mod might get lost in this thread...and there are a bunch of folks who might want to have the 'DRIVE' foot-switchable...who might NOT want to do my channel-2 mod. They might never see the 'DIVE' footswitch 'mod' unless it is posted separately.

Thanks for sharing! Charles

 

[davidp158]

I'm a new member to the forum, and recently purchased a LSC 1x12 combo. I've been reading this thread, and plan on trying Charles Reeder's channel 2 mod. I haven't read the entire thread, so please pardon me if this question has been raised and answered already.

My question:
As the channel masters on the LSC work as effects sends going to the effects loop, does the channel 2 mod cause radically different levels between the two channels? My (pre-mod LSC) master settings are usually very close, but I'm wondering if the channel 2 mod will require me to set the master levels differently, or if the pot taper will create a significant difference in the send going to the effects loop. My guess will be that regardless of where the master send knobs eventually end up, if I have a balanced volume level between channels, the level going to the effects loop will be balanced. BTW, I only use delay (TC Nova Delay) in my effects loop.

I'd appreciate hearing comments from those who have done the mod and use effects in their effects loop.

thanks in advance for a great thread,
Dave

 

[Charles Reeder]

hey 'davidp158':

I saw your question about the channel-master settings several hours ago. I put off answering you in the hope that someone else would 'weigh-in' and give you an answer...as at 'this stage of the game'...(before you have even done the mod)...I figure someone else's findings might be what you are really after. Let's face it...I am a little biased towards favoring my own mods!

I actually think that the answer to your question (about how closely the channel masters will be set) really depends on how much gain you use on channel-2. If you use extremely differing amounts of gain on the 2 channels...then I believe your channel master settings will reflect that by being far different too.

In my case: I generally set the gain on channel-1 between 12:00 and 2:00...and the gain on channel-2 between 2:00 and 3:30. I use the 'Drive' engaged most of the time...usually set at between 9:00 and 10:00. Allowing for the difference in the gain settings of the 2 channels...I usually end up with the channel-1 master set between 9:00 and 11:30...and the channel-2 master set between 9:00 and 10:30.

I hope this helps to answer your question. If not...hopefully someone else will join in with their results.

Happy modding: Charles

 

[Nomad]

Interesting thread. In no way do I have time to read it all though.

I owned a LSC and dont remember thinking Channel one was different from Channel two except for the Switches.

I do remember Channel one was amasing. The Cleans and Reverb on 100 watt with SS rectifier was Glorious.

I remember I didnt like the erxtra gain added by the switches on Channel two. I usally adjusted the Gain on Channel two to get the most amount of gain I could get without it leaving Cruch Tones to allow for Saturated Solo Tones with just a slight Boost on the Footswitchable Master Volume.

Having the option of being in 50 watts with a Tube rectifier on the Lead Channel was very nice. It allows for a more Cranked Amp Tone on the Dirty side and still have massive Headroom for Cleans on Channel one.

I have since gotten rid of it since I fried mine 2 months after I got it and never got around to trying this but I would think the LSC would work much better if one set the Clean Channel for Glorious Cleans with Reverb, set the Dirty Channel for a Good Crunch with ne Verb and hit either Channel with an OCD for Robben Ford Tone on the Clean Channel and Sustain for Days on the Dirty Channel.

I really like my LSC. It was the 1x12 Wide Body Combo in that Bright White Color with Black trim. Unfortunately I was mad at my Sweet Wife one day, went down stairs, dimed it wide open and played for about an hour. I was about ready to quit playing when smoke started boiling out from the back of it.

I took it to Jeff Bakos and he took it apart right there. I looked on in horror when I saw a quarter sized hole burnt through the main Circuit Board. He exclaimed there is no way in hell they are gonna pay me to fix this, you need to take it back to the store. I did and they wanted to give me one of those ugly Blue Ones. I told them no so they found me another white one. Unfortunately when I got it, it looked like it had been to several gigs and was slightly beat up.

I took it home and after playing it a couple weeks it did something quirky so after that I loaded it up and took it back and got a different amp (not Mesa).

Not kicking Mesa though because my 1988 Mark III Simul Class - Reverb -GEQ - EV - Combo smokes anything that comes into it's path.

I wish Mesa made a Lone Star that was 50 watts, had a choice between Tube or Solid State Rectifier. No Duall Master Volumes, Same Reverb. Two main reasons I say this is that 100 wats means Big Iron and 50 watts means less Iron thus less weight and a lot of people just really dont need 100 watts. Number two is I just dont need a Kithcen Sink in my Amp.

Do they even make any simple amps any more? I cant think of any.

One of the things I have noticed with recent Boogie Designs is they have to include the Kitchen Sink.

Something Close is the Stiletto Ace though the Lead Channel has way too much Gain and is the Brightest Ear piercing thang I have ever heard in my life. With the Trebile and Presence turned all the way off it is still tooo bright.

As far as the difference in Gain on a LSC between Channels that could be as simple as a Preamp Tube Swap. Dont remember which Tube did what but I would think a Tube in the Path of Channel two but not in Channel one could (if slightly different) make all the difference in the world.

 

[rastaman]

Interesting thread. In no way do I have time to read it all though.

I owned a LSC and dont remember thinking Channel one was different from Channel two except for the Switches.

I do remember Channel one was amasing. The Cleans and Reverb on 100 watt with SS rectifier was Glorious.

I remember I didnt like the erxtra gain added by the switches on Channel two. I usally adjusted the Gain on Channel two to get the most amount of gain I could get without it leaving Cruch Tones to allow for Saturated Solo Tones with just a slight Boost on the Footswitchable Master Volume.

Having the option of being in 50 watts with a Tube rectifier on the Lead Channel was very nice. It allows for a more Cranked Amp Tone on the Dirty side and still have massive Headroom for Cleans on Channel one.

I have since gotten rid of it since I fried mine 2 months after I got it and never got around to trying this but I would think the LSC would work much better if one set the Clean Channel for Glorious Cleans with Reverb, set the Dirty Channel for a Good Crunch with ne Verb and hit either Channel with an OCD for Robben Ford Tone on the Clean Channel and Sustain for Days on the Dirty Channel.

I really like my LSC. It was the 1x12 Wide Body Combo in that Bright White Color with Black trim. Unfortunately I was mad at my Sweet Wife one day, went down stairs, dimed it wide open and played for about an hour. I was about ready to quit playing when smoke started boiling out from the back of it.

I took it to Jeff Bakos and he took it apart right there. I looked on in horror when I saw a quarter sized hole burnt through the main Circuit Board. He exclaimed there is no way in hell they are gonna pay me to fix this, you need to take it back to the store. I did and they wanted to give me one of those ugly Blue Ones. I told them no so they found me another white one. Unfortunately when I got it, it looked like it had been to several gigs and was slightly beat up.

I took it home and after playing it a couple weeks it did something quirky so after that I loaded it up and took it back and got a different amp (not Mesa).

Not kicking Mesa though because my 1988 Mark III Simul Class - Reverb -GEQ - EV - Combo smokes anything that comes into it's path.

I wish Mesa made a Lone Star that was 50 watts, had a choice between Tube or Solid State Rectifier. No Duall Master Volumes, Same Reverb. Two main reasons I say this is that 100 wats means Big Iron and 50 watts means less Iron thus less weight and a lot of people just really dont need 100 watts. Number two is I just dont need a Kithcen Sink in my Amp.

Do they even make any simple amps any more? I cant think of any.

One of the things I have noticed with recent Boogie Designs is they have to include the Kitchen Sink.

Something Close is the Stiletto Ace though the Lead Channel has way too much Gain and is the Brightest Ear piercing thang I have ever heard in my life. With the Trebile and Presence turned all the way off it is still tooo bright.

As far as the difference in Gain on a LSC between Channels that could be as simple as a Preamp Tube Swap. Dont remember which Tube did what but I would think a Tube in the Path of Channel two but not in Channel one could (if slightly different) make all the difference in the world.

Interesting post, I finally read it. I mentioned the same thing here about the Stiletto's dirty channel being overly bright and people got snippy. I will say it sounded much better through an Orange 2x12 w/ V30s believe it or not, makes me wonder what it would sound like in my Bogner OS 2x12 with some MC90s.

 

[plan-x]

Interesting post, I finally read it. I mentioned the same thing here about the Stiletto's dirty channel being overly bright and people got snippy. I will say it sounded much better through an Orange 2x12 w/ V30s believe it or not, makes me wonder what it would sound like in my Bogner OS 2x12 with some MC90s.

Probably better. On our discussions here we commented that usually an ext. cab is an improvement over the combo cab.

 

[Steve73]

I know my LSS head's tone improved immensely when I went from the Boogie 4x10 cab to a custom 2x12 cab.

 

[plan-x]

Ok, here is the latest head count of the Reeder mod I If your not there, add your name!

Maybe I'll tally the Reeder mod II at another time

Charles Reeder - The Modfather
plan-x
djw
cb101 changed back
Mick
Mesafan
BobL changed back
loudguitars
fishyfishfish
thirstypirate
remocity
Monsta-tone (I think)
Me!!!
Barracuda
Creekhed
Spikey Si
Lou
Rock on
SBG200
Ralfirocks
dougn
dvcamshooter
woody
Steve73
blues57
Bicycle ?
madryan
pine
davidp158

 

[davidp158]

I just finished doing the Reeder mod to my LSC, and must say that the difference is quite noticeable. The tone/gain difference has been stated plenty of times before, so no need to beat that to death. I'll just add that Charles' mod makes the overdrive channel more useful for the tones that I'm after. The gain characteristic changes, but I think for the better.

I also want to thank "djw" for posting pics. The mod isn't hard to do, but space is limited. The hardest part for me was getting the pots out, as they practically butt up against the circuit board. Removing the top row gain and master knobs is required, so be sure you don't confuse which row you're working on. Marking the leads to the bottom row gain/master pot is a good way to insure you don't work on the wrong pots.

Thanks for the mod Charles, and to all who chimed in with their feedback.

cheers,
Dave

has anyone taken pics of the process while performing the mod? that would be helpful to us non-experts...

Here are a few. I took these while I did the mod, though looking at all of them I realize that at some point I pretty much just focused on the work, and neglected to get pictures of every step. Looking back I wish I'd captured:

- Sticking a plastic spoon under my soldering job, to protect the circuit board in case I dripped solder.
- Marking the leads before disconnecting them from the pots.

Anyway, I also was planning to write all of this up sometime, but maybe it isn't all that much of a story... just be really really careful and don't electrocute yourself on those caps... they will kill you if you don't know what you're doing.

Otherwise, there isn't much to learn here except to see what the insides look like. It's pretty tight in there, which is the Mesa Engineering "thing". One other trick is to leave the chassis pretty much in the box, but use the back panel thing as a strut to keep it afloat while you work; that way you can leave the tubes in and everything.

Using the back panel as a support for the chassis. It slipped once (ouch!) but the tubes survived and all was well.

1-2-3 dots on the leads for the Master control. As you can see, the leads are not long and you'll be soldering over the circuit board (thus the plastic spoon trick -- perhaps the more electrically-inclined among us have a standard way of dealing with this).

Ditto for the Gain.

Gain pot in front of its original position.

Master pot in front of its original position.

 

[plan-x]

Nice work davidp158! Gonna add your name to the list.

 

[dtglassmoon]

Hi Guys,
This is my first post here as I have only just purchased a second hand Lonestar Classic 2x12 and I have to say that this thread may just stop me from selling it on as Channel 2 to me just sounds too muddy and lacks any harmonic content ?? I have only ever owned a Studio 22+ before and that was an awesome sounding amp which I regret part exchanging for an Ibanez Jem...still got the Jem but always missed the Boogie sound hence the purchase. I knew when i tested it that it had a fault due to the fact it had no reverb on either channel.....the guy said I needed a footswitch to activate the verb which I knew to be untrue but Channel 1 sounded pretty sweet so I decided to buy it...sure enough after getting the weighty beast home I found that the Reverb unit had a wire broken away and the phono loom was flat-lining so I replaced the loom and hey presto I now have a nice reverb sound...although the Bright / Warm switch appears to do nothing ? is this usual ?? Maybe I had been spoilt with the Studio 22+ having such a gorgeous lead sound which I can't seem to achieve on Channel 2 of the Lonestar which im told is about a year or two old and still under warrenty. Im liking the sound of what im reading in this thread and seeing as I have not gigged the amp yet due to only having it for 2 weeks I will try the mod before we rehearse this Friday and get back and tell you what I think.....an amp genius who I work with checked the schematics and is interested himself to see what all the fuss is all about as he believes the pots to be of equal value 1 Meg ? I will let you guys know as soon as it is done........Cheers Tony
By The Way.......Very Cool Site !!!

 

[davidp158]

Congrats on scoring a Lonestar. I'm biased, but I do think its a great amp. I'm not familiar with the Studio 22+, but I believe the Lonestar's lower gain preamp was designed to appeal to blues and country players. Its really not a high gain type of amp, but with the extra gain stage enabled on the overdrive channel, and the bright switch set to "thicker", it will get pretty close to Mesa Boogies singing sustain lead tones of yore.

The Reeder mod in this thread is an easy one, and shouldn't cost much if you have a tech do it. It will clean up the overdrive channel, but you may prefer to leave the amp stock if you want the most gain from that channel. If you find the overdrive channel to be a bit dark and lifeless, push up the treble knob a bit, as that control interacts with the mid and bass controls. You might also look at the setting Andy Timmons uses, if you want some high gain sounds. Do a search for Andy Timmons, and you'll find some photos of his Lonestar settings.

Regarding the bright switch on the reverb, know that the reverb is post EQ. Thus, if your preamp tones lack treble, the bright setting on the reverb switch may not be very apparent. You may want to crank up the reverb mix a bit high, just to hear how the bright switch effects the reverb tone, while experimenting with your preamp tones. Its all very interactive.

good luck,
Dave

Hi Guys,
This is my first post here as I have only just purchased a second hand Lonestar Classic 2x12 and I have to say that this thread may just stop me from selling it on as Channel 2 to me just sounds too muddy and lacks any harmonic content ?? I have only ever owned a Studio 22+ before and that was an awesome sounding amp which I regret part exchanging for an Ibanez Jem...still got the Jem but always missed the Boogie sound hence the purchase. I knew when i tested it that it had a fault due to the fact it had no reverb on either channel.....the guy said I needed a footswitch to activate the verb which I knew to be untrue but Channel 1 sounded pretty sweet so I decided to buy it...sure enough after getting the weighty beast home I found that the Reverb unit had a wire broken away and the phono loom was flat-lining so I replaced the loom and hey presto I now have a nice reverb sound...although the Bright / Warm switch appears to do nothing ? is this usual ?? Maybe I had been spoilt with the Studio 22+ having such a gorgeous lead sound which I can't seem to achieve on Channel 2 of the Lonestar which im told is about a year or two old and still under warrenty. Im liking the sound of what im reading in this thread and seeing as I have not gigged the amp yet due to only having it for 2 weeks I will try the mod before we rehearse this Friday and get back and tell you what I think.....an amp genius who I work with checked the schematics and is interested himself to see what all the fuss is all about as he believes the pots to be of equal value 1 Meg ? I will let you guys know as soon as it is done........Cheers Tony
By The Way.......Very Cool Site !!!

 

[davidp158]

Congrats on scoring a Lonestar. I'm biased, but I do think its a great amp. I'm not familiar with the Studio 22+, but I believe the Lonestar's lower gain preamp was designed to appeal to blues and country players. Its really not a high gain type of amp, but with the extra gain stage enabled on the overdrive channel, and the bright switch set to "thicker", it will get pretty close to Mesa Boogies singing sustain lead tones of yore.

The Reeder mod in this thread is an easy one, and shouldn't cost much if you have a tech do it. It will clean up the overdrive channel, but you may prefer to leave the amp stock if you want the most gain from that channel. If you find the overdrive channel to be a bit dark and lifeless, push up the treble knob a bit, as that control interacts with the mid and bass controls. You might also look at the setting Andy Timmons uses, if you want some high gain sounds. Do a search for Andy Timmons, and you'll find some photos of his Lonestar settings.

Regarding the bright switch on the reverb, know that the reverb is post EQ. Thus, if your preamp tones lack treble, the bright setting on the reverb switch may not be very apparent. You may want to crank up the reverb mix a bit high, just to hear how the bright switch effects the reverb tone, while experimenting with your preamp tones. Its all very interactive.

good luck,
Dave

Hi Guys,
This is my first post here as I have only just purchased a second hand Lonestar Classic 2x12 and I have to say that this thread may just stop me from selling it on as Channel 2 to me just sounds too muddy and lacks any harmonic content ?? I have only ever owned a Studio 22+ before and that was an awesome sounding amp which I regret part exchanging for an Ibanez Jem...still got the Jem but always missed the Boogie sound hence the purchase. I knew when i tested it that it had a fault due to the fact it had no reverb on either channel.....the guy said I needed a footswitch to activate the verb which I knew to be untrue but Channel 1 sounded pretty sweet so I decided to buy it...sure enough after getting the weighty beast home I found that the Reverb unit had a wire broken away and the phono loom was flat-lining so I replaced the loom and hey presto I now have a nice reverb sound...although the Bright / Warm switch appears to do nothing ? is this usual ?? Maybe I had been spoilt with the Studio 22+ having such a gorgeous lead sound which I can't seem to achieve on Channel 2 of the Lonestar which im told is about a year or two old and still under warrenty. Im liking the sound of what im reading in this thread and seeing as I have not gigged the amp yet due to only having it for 2 weeks I will try the mod before we rehearse this Friday and get back and tell you what I think.....an amp genius who I work with checked the schematics and is interested himself to see what all the fuss is all about as he believes the pots to be of equal value 1 Meg ? I will let you guys know as soon as it is done........Cheers Tony
By The Way.......Very Cool Site !!!

 

[ja22y]

.....an amp genius who I work with checked the schematics and is interested himself to see what all the fuss is all about as he believes the pots to be of equal value 1 Meg ? I will let you guys know as soon as it is done........Cheers Tony
By The Way.......Very Cool Site !!!

We ought to have a summary of this mod as this same question comes up all the time.
Both pots are 1M but the taper are different. Pot 1 (ch1 gain) rate of change is less than pot 2( ch2 gain) between 8:00 (min) to 2:00; but its rate of change is more between 2:00 to 4:00 (max). So for the same visual setting, you get more gain on ch2 at low setting and ch1 'catches up' with ch 2 at high setting. Theoretically, if you mark the points where both pots have the same resistance ( master pots also) you should be able to dial-in the same tone. Also if you max either the master or gain pots, you would elliminate its affect and allow you to play around with one set of pot so you can hear the difference. Hope it makes sense

 

[boogiemon]

+1 on the mod: i like it.

...had some time on my hands this weekend so i braved the deadly capacitors & swapped the pots.

the "boxy" tone on ch2 is gone & the characteristics of the guitar come through nicely. Interestingly, for those us who've used any of the Mark series, the hair-trigger master volume is back: one careless twist on the ch2 master & you get a sonic blast in the face. Also, like the Marks, the bass is a little looser now, but the trade off is easily worth it: sounds like a real boutique amp now. My particular config is as follows: LSC 50/100 in a LSS 1x12 cab w/an EV Classic.

Anyway, i'm keeping the mod.
Thanks Charles.

j

 

[thirstypirate]

Theoretically, if you mark the points where both pots have the same resistance ( master pots also) you should be able to dial-in the same tone.

We should start a new thread in the LS sub-forum detailing how to do the Reeder mods and what to expect from them.

I agree that theoretically we should be able to make both channels sounds the same stock but I couldn't do it. Is it because of the tone stack?

 

[djw]

We should start a new thread in the LS sub-forum detailing how to do the Reeder mods and what to expect from them.

I was thinking the same thing, thirsty. It would be good if it was a sticky thread, too... it just keeps coming up, and the search has been funky sometimes (maybe it's improved now?)

I'd be happy to write something up, and anyone who wants to can help define and describe any particulars... I could start with an outline and we can make it more detailed as we go. Or something.

And, right on boogiemon. Glad you're digging the mod.

 

[plan-x]

the hair-trigger master volume is back: one careless twist on the ch2 master & you get a sonic blast in the face. Also, like the Marks, the bass is a little looser now, but the trade off is easily worth it: sounds like a real boutique amp now.

Ha ha, that hasn't been mentioned before but is true. Hair trigger master! :shock:

 

[plan-x]

We should start a new thread in the LS sub-forum detailing how to do the Reeder mods and what to expect from them.

I was thinking the same thing, thirsty. It would be good if it was a sticky thread, too... it just keeps coming up, and the search has been funky sometimes (maybe it's improved now?)

I'd be happy to write something up, and anyone who wants to can help define and describe any particulars... I could start with an outline and we can make it more detailed as we go. Or something.

And, right on boogiemon. Glad you're digging the mod.

Make it so number one!

 

[thirstypirate]

I'd be happy to write something up, and anyone who wants to can help define and describe any particulars... I could start with an outline and we can make it more detailed as we go. Or something.

That sounds great and would be an easy resource for anyone trying to do it instead of sorting through all the posts in this great thread.