question on the MKIV

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enjoi2

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i went to a band pratice of my friends who need help with there music...when i was there we came up on the discussion on amps...i told them that i had my heart set on a mark IV..one of the guitarist told me not to get it becasue mesa amps break very easily and no one will fix them becasue they have a 3 layer mother board...i had a hard time beliving this...is this true????

thx luke
 
LMAO That's pathetic how people bash Boogies for reliability. The amps are made above industry standards and if it's tubes you're worried about...why would the tubes be anymore at risk in a boogie than another high gain amp? Can't believe the crap people believe without investigating for themselves,,, **** in **** out
 
Not reliable, my ***. Look at the legions of MK I, II, III, IV and DR's that have been purely abused for decades and sound even better with age.
A good question is, What the hell is a triple sided circut board. The worst case scenario for any Mesa circuit boart is running the heater traces under the board.

I could have, and have had about any amp my heart desires and when it was all done, I stuck with Mesa for Tone, Reliability and customer support.
They have shaped my tone and I have rarely had an issue with any Mesa other than a few newer models and their channel pop issues.

I guess you can ask how many MHZ the mother board is running at.
What a goofy perception of the finest production amplifiers in the world.
Other than seriously high dollar PTP amps like Dumble, Matchless, Badcat and other boutique makers, you can expext the same quality, components and reliabilty from them.
 
I can't see how Mesa amps would break any easier than any other manufacturer's amp. What kind of amp does he consider reliable? I have seen many amps fail for different reasons. I would think that the 3 layer boards are better than the typical 2 layer boards others use. As far as reliability goes, why would so many big touring bands use Mesa if that was the case? The Mark IV is one hell of an amp. Do not let this fool tell you otherwise. He probably just could never afford to buy one or has never had one for any length of time. He may also be biased towards other amp manufacturers. Get a Mark IV and put him to shame. Mesa builds a very nice amp. If you look inside a Mark IV I think you could tell the build quality is there. Besides, if the amp was a terrible amp then why would they still be manufacturing it after over 15 years of use. Marshall hasn't even built an amp that they kept in production that long since the venerable 1959 and 1987. Look at the 800's they only lasted a decade in production. The 900's weren't that great but they only lasted a decade also. I am assuming that the 2000's will only last a few more years also. So for an amp company to be still producing and selling a product after over 15 years must say something for its reputation and longevity. The Rectifiers are nice and can almost have the same thing said for them as well though they did get more drastic changes and became more of a genre of amps. The Mark IV only received minor changes when it was revised to the B version. If you respect your amp and not treat it like crap even the most delicate of amps will last a long time. This is not to say that the earliest Mark IVs out there are even close to delicate. Most of them saw heavy use and were gigged hard because the price of Mesa amps causes them to be more geared towards a pro musician or at least that used to be the case. More people are now playing Mesa than before because of the tone that was presented to them by their favorite artist. They amps that I would be more leary of are those that are less expensive. Besides, Mesa has a reputation of being a manufacturer that not only stands behind their amps but also has excellent customer service should you need them. How many other amp companies can you call and talk to the man that not only designed your amp but built it? How many other companies actually have live representatives on the phone when you call? Most other amps are distributed by one company that handles their customer service poorly. In the last 25 years I have not been as impressed by an amp manufacturer as I have been with Mesa. I have played Marshall, Ampeg, Peavey, Crate, Fender, Musicman, Carvin, Rocktron, Digitech, DOD, Yamaha, Vox, Randall, Roland, Hiwatt, Laney, Sunn, Matchless, GT and Gorilla. The only other company that was even remotely close to Mesa's customer service was Metaltronix and Lee Jackson. I take it that it is because Lee was never very big. He will talk to you about any amp he has ever built or modified. I am assuming that Trace at Voodoo is about the same. I haven't had dealings with Trace but have dealt with Lee. I never had a problem with the Matchless or the GT so I cannot comment there. So from the mouth of someone who has played enough and tried to deal with manufacturers for stuff from tech support to replacement parts, modification and repair questions I think that you should be at ease with Mesa's build quality and reliability. As far as noone being able to fix a Mesa, Mesa requires a level of expertise that not every amp technician has. Mesa only allows individuals that know the amps to be authorized to be the actual Mesa factory service and service them. Sure you could take your amp to your local tech that might know how to fix the problem but they may not have complete knowledge of the amp the way a certified tech would. The amps are not that complicated if you have a good knowledge of electronics and are relatively skilled. To be honest, most amps are not that difficult to work on if you have a schematic and understand the circuit. I can say that many techs are lazy and do not like to work on things that present situations where they must be a little more careful or that involve more timet o work on the amp, ie. the later JCM800s that had the pots mounted to the circuit board. The older techs hated it. The newer techs just learned to live with it. I remember some techs refusing to work on them for something as simple as that or because a circuit was modified and they weren't familiar with the modification. This just shows a techs laziness and inability to assess and troubleshoot. Realistically if the tech knows electronics and has some common sense to him he will be able to work on just about anything. It just takes the time to figure things out.

By the way, what kind of amp does your friend consider to be a good amp?

I would consider a PTP amp to be slightly more delicate than a PCB amp if only because the leads are flying and support each and every component thus there is more to shake around and get loose. I can hear subtle differences in tone between PTP and PCB but rarely think it is really worth it though an old Marshall is hard to beat for that tone.
 
he belives his crate is really good and he likes the tsl and other stard names..but he thinks his crate is like godly or sumthin..i gonna get a IV a smack the crap out of that crate of his...
 
enjoi2 said:
he belives his crate is really good and he likes the tsl and other stard names..but he thinks his crate is like godly or sumthin..i gonna get a IV a smack the crap out of that crate of his...

Tell your friend Gorilla amps will blow his Crate amp :wink:
 
Tell him crate stands for:

(C)an't(R)eally(A)fford(T)rue(E)quipment

Then point and laugh :D
 
Make a voice recording of what he has to say. Then in a year or however long it takes for him to appreciate real gear play it back for him. Ignorance is bliss. Definitely get that Mark IV and make him eat his words. I think that as soon as you get teh tone controls figured out he is going to be thinking differently. For that matter, you'll be blowing him away even without great settings.
 
I almost forgot, if he thinks that the TSL is good that has to tell you something. Even Marshall fans that have any sense do not like the TSL. I am thinking that he is one of those guys that likes to hide behind distortion. If he ever gains any feel and any skill he will figure out that Crate is not the amp of choice. Some of their stuff can be kind of ok for practice but I wouldn't really ever consider buying one of their amps. There are much better amps at every wattage level, tube compliment, speaker configuration, etc. I bet your friend is playing one of the SS or hybrid type amps too, huh? Just ignore him until he grows up a little and gains an ear for tone.
 
Yeah..That is pretty sad to think that someone would think that a crate sounds better than a boogie...Get yourself that Mark IV and watch his crate melt next to it.
 
Do yourself a Huge Favor ... Keep your eye on the prize, the MK IV. Don't let someone talk down your dream. Get the MK IV , get an older one, you won't regret it. It will make your guitars sound superior, I'm serious. If your mate likes Crates that's good too. But you're on the right path. And you came to the right place to voice your concerns! The good people here will steer you in the right direction & you'll sort it all out. :!: :!: :!: 8) 8) 8)
 
Crate is junk. Totally entry level bargain hunter gear as far as guitar amplification. IMO you get what you pay for most of the time. Are Boogies and other high end all tube amps expensive? Yes. Do they kick the **** out of solid state and modeling amps? Unquestionably. When your friend hears your Mark IV he will be dumbfounded and envious to the point of selling his immortal soul to obtain one just like it.
 
metalmaster said:
Crate is junk. Totally entry level bargain hunter gear as far as guitar amplification. IMO you get what you pay for most of the time. Are Boogies and other high end all tube amps expensive? Yes. Do they kick the sh!t out of solid state and modeling amps? Unquestionably. When your friend hears your Mark IV he will be dumbfounded and envious to the point of selling his immortal soul to obtain one just like it.

I would say that is for the most part true about the solidstate amps however an exception to that statement would be there isn't much out there that is cleaner than the JC amps that Roland made. I am still not fond of the sound that those square sine waved modeling amps create.

As far as the majority of Crate's amps go I think that only half of the directions are on tha amp. The line under the logo should say ...Then throw it off the end of a pier (or the midspan of a high bridge) and go get a good amp.

enjoi2-
You could probably put your amp next door and still blow his Crate back to St. Louis Music with just the air that your Mark IV will push. Honestly, your Mark IV would probably sound better even if your amp was next door and the doors and windows were closed.
 
wat make's s-s amps sound sh!t ful..is the way they clip...it's nothing like the smooth onset clip like a tube...it's hard/streile and harsh when clipped..transitor's were never designed to clip.....tranny's are designed to hold the break up point and bring it on suddedly..( hard clip) not for guitar amp's..



THATS WHY SS should never be used...

but cheap is cheap and thats wat cheap..
 
wow guys..i really appriecate your opinions..i am going to keep my dream of a mark IV alive..once again thx for the posts
 
Crate vs. Mesa.... hmmmm. Isn't that like comparing a Toyota to a Porsche. Yeah the Toyota may be a reliable car and it will get you where you need to go, but it's not even in the same league as the Porsche. Crate has their place in the entry level market, but how many touring professionals do you see on stage with Crate amps. Marshall I'm afraid is living off of their name. Their contruction materials and techniques are just plain cheap. Their PTP amps are a little better, but look at the difference in price from their normal production amps. Do yourself a favor and browse through the user reviews for the Marshall and Mesa over at harmony-central.com You'll find out really quick the difference you get. The Marshall reviews are filled with people who've had transformers blow, jacks, and pots break, etc. The Mesa reviews that talk about repairs are few and far between. The funny thing is, Marshall people will have their amp blow up on them and still proclaim that Marshalls are the best. I think it's the name. So many people grow up having "Marshall amps are the best Rock amps" beat into their heads, simply because people like Hendrix and Eddie Van Halen used them. I can tell you one thing that is absolutely certain, the Marshalls of the 1960's and the Marshalls of today are VERY different animals. More and more people are starting to realize that and Marshall's popularity is dropping as a result.
 
Just saw this thread.. No joke, when I went to audition the Mark IVa I ended up buying, the shop owner went to prop the Boogie up so I could easily see the controls... We lifted it up and placed it on another amp and said "This is about all this Crate is good for" I laughed my *** off and told him I wasn't even sure it could hold the weight! :lol:
 
I thought Tracii Guns (Guns n Roses,LA Guns, Brides of Destruction to name a few of the bands he was in) was pro... Could have fooled me... I guess Tripp Eisen (Static X) isn't either... and no one cares about Orgy...

I know that I have seen those JCM2000s on stage here and there but they are nowhere near as prevalent as the Rectifiers or even their older brethren (JMPs, JCM800s, JCM900s, JMP-1s and various other rack pieces.
 
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