Need a big brother for a mini rec

[Seanthesheep]

Ok so Im working on a rig rebuild right now, going from a bare bones 6505 type setup to a more complex recto setup.

For now Im going to start off by buying a mini recto and a nice 212 cabinet as well as put together a nice pedalboard and upgrade cabling and all that stuff.

But I figure Eventually Ill need something bigger for headroom reasons if/when I start playing out again.

My question is, if Im transitioning from the mini recto and want a full sized recto what should I shoot for?

I think the most aimilar would be the 2010 dual rec, right? Or should I buy a roadster? Or an old 2 channel?

Just as a reference for the bigger head Ill be using for thing ranging from punk/poppunk, to progressive metal where cleans are important.

Pretty much which rec should I look to pair up with the mini rec and for what reasons.

 

[MBJunkie]

Do you already have the Mini Rec and 212 cab? If not, you may realize that this combination will also work very well for live gigs, rehearsals, and home use.....just saying.

 

[Seanthesheep]

I do not have the mini rec yet but I will be soon, and I think I know roughly what it can and cnt do. I feel confident in its ability to hold its own at a band reheraal or something, but also when I was playing out, id say 70% of our shows were un mic'd on the amps and were large emough to be very concerned about headroom

 

[MBJunkie]

Fair enough. I definitely understand your point if most of your shows are unmic'd. One last question......why are most of your shows unmic'd? Just curious.

 

[Seanthesheep]

Well we were just taking any shows we could get really and alot of the time it involes playing at places that arent actually concert venues and te only PA gear there is like a 4 channel mixer and 2 speakers that are barely loud enough to push vocals through the mix.

Like we played a bunch if outdoor shows, small theaters, and rooms/places that often dont even have a proper stage. The only times we played proper gigs with good PAs and a proper stage is when we open for larger bands

 

[MBJunkie]

Gotha!

Wow, the fact that you are having gigs without you having to provide your own PA gear is unheard of in my neck of the woods. Congrats on that, no question!

My band only gigs occassionally and mostly for private parties to an audience of 100-150 tops. However, I always have to set up my own PA system for all gigs.....which of course, is a PITA! On the other hand, I always know what to expect with my equipment, and am able to fine tune the mix depending on each venue.

Anyway, to cut to the chase.....my Mini Rectifier can be surprisingly loud while playing through my 212 Rectifier Cab unmic'd in a band situation. Who knows....you may be surprised by how loud it can be. I am!

 

[YellowJacket]

Unmic'd? BOGUS!

Dual Recto or Triple Recto Reborn. Either will switch to 50watts for 'smaller' stuff. Depends on how loud your drummer is, whether you want the added punch or not. Run a 4 x 12 with it!

We did tonnes of unmic'd stuff with only vocals through the PA. Honestly, the halfstack really was best for that kind of thing!
For what you play, I'd get the 'stiletto' 4 x 12 or whatever they are going to rename it to. More mids!

 

[MBJunkie]

I am not suggesting that the Mini Recto would be a good choice live "unmic'd" by any stretch of the imagination. On the contrary. I don't play any gigs "unmic'd" with any amp, and this is mainly to help control the overall stage volume. It is critical that all members of a band can hear themselves on stage. I find this easier to achieve by mic'ing my amps to get a reasonable stage volume while still being an integral part of the mix....while controlling my overall guitar volume through the PA.

If one is needing to blast away unmic'd to the crowd.....then by all means the Mini Recto won't work well in those situations, but the overall mix will probably not be very good either IMO.....

 

[ironjose]

i'm just saying because i guess i have the same problem or question... but imho if you want to get the mini get it... otherwise just save up and get another mesa amp...
i was in the same situation and just saying i got a roadster still havent got it in my hands but i guess in a month or so i'll get it...
but since i was reading your post i do have the same situation i do play in gigs without PA... it sucks but sometimes is enough...

 

[YellowJacket]

I am not suggesting that the Mini Recto would be a good choice live "unmic'd" by any stretch of the imagination. On the contrary. I don't play any gigs "unmic'd" with any amp, and this is mainly to help control the overall stage volume. It is critical that all members of a band can hear themselves on stage. I find this easier to achieve by mic'ing my amps to get a reasonable stage volume while still being an integral part of the mix....while controlling my overall guitar volume through the PA.

If one is needing to blast away unmic'd to the crowd.....then by all means the Mini Recto won't work well in those situations, but the overall mix will probably not be very good either IMO.....

Things sound better when properly mixed and all going through a sound system. Lower stage volumes = better performance when everyone can hear themselves including the SINGER! We did the 'vocals through a PA' and amps off the stage thing for a couple of gigs. To make it work, the bass needed as punchy, bright, and midrange focused tone as possible. Then you boost the mids on the guitar and cut the bass. This really focuses the sound and keeps things from getting muddy. Still, it is pretty ghetto and isn't anywhere as nice as a proper PA.

The Mini Recto with a 4 x 12 had a lot of OOMPH when I tested it. The amp will be perceived as being half as loud as a 100watt head when set to 10 watts. Depending on the drummer, a Dual Recto reborn is great for the added horsepower in a live situation. I mean, it really REALLY depends on stage volume levels and how loud the band is overall. I've never really needed my Electra Dyne up over about 8:30 live (master) and this is on the 45watt setting with a 2 x 12. That being said, I have yet to play with a really loud band.

Probably the best advice would be to try the Mini out before deciding whether or not a large displacement amp is necessary. If you absolutely MUST get one, get the Reborn. It has the lovely cleans and you can switch down to 50watts. For a normal drummer, the Dual will have plenty of power, even on 50watts. For a VERY LOUD drummer, the triple is necessary!

 

[elvis]

You can get a decent 200W PA and a mic for a lot less than a bigger recto. Lighter, too.

 

[Matt O'Casster]

The best sounding bands I hear have low stage volumes. I've got a 100w tremoverb head and 4x12 cab and the mini has been the answer to my prayers. I was tired of lugging the big rig around and spending my night trying to control stage volume. Plus the mini turned up sounds better than the 100w turned down. If you are playing non mic'd the only people that are going to hear your guitar are the few folks standing in direct line of your cab, and it will probably seem too loud to them.
My advice, get a PA and use the mini. I guarantee you it will be noticably favorable to your audience (if your drummer is a beast, get him behind some plexiglas or get a good monitor..or both.)

 

[D2dark]

I run a mini with a 2x12 and seriously, if you really need more than that... The problems not the amp!

I can get a decent 112 DB out of that thing, it is rock n roll loud !

 

[screamingdaisy]

In my experience, 30w amps are nearly as loud as 100w amps and I don't really see a 25w amp being much different. Further, regardless of wattage the end result is usually that they're the same volume once you adjust for the venue (i.e., whether 25w or 100w you wind up turning the amp down to suit the sound man anyway). Thus the main difference is headroom, which will change the way the amp feels under your fingers. I like stiff/punchy sounding amplifiers, which is why I've gradually sold my 30w amps and switched back to 100w amps over the last 4 or 5 years. EL84 amps sound wild and are really good at getting that "out of control" amplifier vibe, but they aren't as tight and don't kick you in the chest the way 100w does.

As for a recommendation, I'd suggest either a Roadster or one of the new Multi-Watt Dual Rectos.... primarily for the ability to select tube vs solid state rectification per channel, but also because they come with a killer clean channel and the 50w mode does come in handy.