MKIIC+ brought it home yesterday

[SonicProvocateur]

I do believe it's serial makes it a C -> C+ upgrade. Secondly, it still has the original bakelite tube sockets which means it could probably use a checkup and go for the upgraded ceramic ones. The export trans on a 60 watter is a nice plus!! Gorgeous amp!

 

[zodiac272]

looks really nice! clean! export tranny! very nice

it looks like original, no writing on the chassis to indicate mods.

very cool!

scott

 

[cjvolker]

Looks really clean, I always wondered what these 60W amps sound like but I know many forum members swear by them.
How long have you been looking for a IIC+ and what kind of music do you play?

Was that the amp in the Gumtree ad, located in Brighton?

 

[Boogiebabies]

There is nothing on the amp that would lead me to believe it is anything but a factory original IIC+. The "pull deep" plate, 3/84 tech date and serial number are all indicators that it left the factory as is. The wiring and solder look original as well.

As for the power tube sockets, there is nothing wrong with the phenolic sockets per se, but the pins on the heaters (2 and 7) do seem to have a high instance of snapping. I prefer to repair the pin rather than risk damaging the power amp board fitting new sockets.

As for tonal differences, your amp is a 60W export with no EQ. Not only do you have a different amount of voltage foing to the power amp, you also have no GEQ which runs in series with the preamp but much further down the preamp than an EQ through the loop.
Also, on a factory GEQ the preamp signal is always going through the EQ amplifier whether it is on or off. It effects the tone enough to differentiate the GEQ amps from the non-GEQ amps. Is it better or worse is up to your ears. It's just different, in my opinion it's not a gargantual difference as Doug West makes it, but it's a difference.

Lastly, the MS-12 if you have ever had it in a combo over the EV-12L is a bit smoother in the top end.

 

[SonicProvocateur]

Ive been reading that factory original C+ can be a serial number as early 123xx
But I dont know how to check for certain do you now if boogie have records for this type of thing ,I was thinking of ringing them later today and asking them
cheers Ian

You're right. I did some more reading and saw what you did, I was just under the presumption about the 12,5xx being the "for sure" serials. Wouldn't hurt to call Mike B. and ask him though.

the lack of eq doesent seem to have a negative impact on the tone in any way as it sounds phenominal without an eq but... out of curiousity I put an eq in the loop yesterday and its just the same as using an on board graphic

...

The other thing Ive noticed today is the 60 watter seems to have a faster much more sensitive response to playing touch than the fully loaded simul amps I had and it also has for want of a better word more bite when digging in with a pick.
I suppose that I could be imagining this as I no longer have a fully loaded simul to actually compare against the non eq 60 watter but... Im pretty sure about it and if it is true and not my imagination then I dont know if the difference is due to not having an onboard eq or not having simul class... ?

It does and it doesn't. The EQ always adds tone sculpting capabilities unavailable to the non-EQ models, but requires more circuitry in the chassis to do it; your ears havent fooled you. The precise frequencies available on things like the MXR, Boss, and other EQ's are also different than the on board EQ, so it will be slightly differen't...for better or worse :wink:

Also the power coupling caps on the non-EQ are smaller giving it faster picking response times, once again, your ears haven't fooled you. But this is all with the right tubes, etc (sloppy tubes, sloppy tone!). Side by side, the power of a simul is going to seem like more though - because it is, but volume matched, the non-EQ will respond faster.

 

[Boogiebabies]

The 12,500 myth has been debunked for years now, but that drivel from Doug West about the "power coupling caps" does not make any sense. If the amp has a GEQ and it is engaged or not it feeds a .047uf cap at the output of the EQ amplifier. An amp without a GEQ does not have any coupling cap because there is no EQ. thus no .047uf. cap The feed after the PI is the same .1uf on any C+ I have every seen. If one wanted to trim the bass response a .047uf or .022 cap would be used instead of the .1uf. The way Mesa eluded to this tonal difference on the MKV was to bypass the cap with the EQ out and dropped the .047uf value down to .022 when it is engaged to allow high and mid high freq. through. The only way to get a true non EQ sound is to modify the input and output of the GEQ to be totally bypassed
when turned off. Otherwise the EQ amp is in series with the preamp and is activated when the ground for the iductors is made.

 

[Boogiebabies]

Ive been reading that factory original C+ can be a serial number as early 123xx
But I dont know how to check for certain do you now if boogie have records for this type of thing ,I was thinking of ringing them later today and asking them
cheers Ian

You're right. I did some more reading and saw what you did, I was just under the presumption about the 12,5xx being the "for sure" serials. Wouldn't hurt to call Mike B. and ask him though.

the lack of eq doesent seem to have a negative impact on the tone in any way as it sounds phenominal without an eq but... out of curiousity I put an eq in the loop yesterday and its just the same as using an on board graphic

...

The other thing Ive noticed today is the 60 watter seems to have a faster much more sensitive response to playing touch than the fully loaded simul amps I had and it also has for want of a better word more bite when digging in with a pick.
I suppose that I could be imagining this as I no longer have a fully loaded simul to actually compare against the non eq 60 watter but... Im pretty sure about it and if it is true and not my imagination then I dont know if the difference is due to not having an onboard eq or not having simul class... ?

It does and it doesn't. The EQ always adds tone sculpting capabilities unavailable to the non-EQ models, but requires more circuitry in the chassis to do it; your ears havent fooled you. The precise frequencies available on things like the MXR, Boss, and other EQ's are also different than the on board EQ, so it will be slightly differen't...for better or worse :wink:

Also the power coupling caps on the non-EQ are smaller giving it faster picking response times, once again, your ears haven't fooled you. But this is all with the right tubes, etc (sloppy tubes, sloppy tone!). Side by side, the power of a simul is going to seem like more though - because it is, but volume matched, the non-EQ will respond faster.

Hi , I emailed Mesa boogie about the C+ to ask if its factory original so I will wait and see if they respond its no big deal either way but its nice to know these things plus Im sure if Boogiebabies says he thinks its factory original then it will be...

I agree about the differences and Im certainly under no illusion that one amp is better than the other
would I miss out on the opportunity to own a DRG MK IIc+ or a HRG Mk IIc+ not a chance I would be all over either one in an instant if I could afford one :lol:

Enjoy your new amp.

 

[cjvolker]

Looks really clean, I always wondered what these 60W amps sound like but I know many forum members swear by them.
How long have you been looking for a IIC+ and what kind of music do you play?

Was that the amp in the Gumtree ad, located in Brighton?

Hi , yes it was the amp in the gumtree ad , located in brighton
I wasnt actually looking for a MKIIc+ as it didnt occur to me that one would come up that would be financially within my reach as I bought a MKIV recently about 5 weeks ago and it cleaned out my amp fund.
I was just looking for used cab on gumtree for a friend who was in work and couldnt get to the internet because he was driving all day .... and there it was just sitting in the gumtree waiting for me :lol: so I traded the MKIV for the MKIIc+ the sellers asking price of the MKIIc+ was £800 which is what the MKIV owed me plus the seller of the MKIIc+ very kindly let me keep the track-lok casters and fittings from My MKIV so I could put them on the MKIIc+ Bargain !

what kind of music do you play?

I like the seventies era stuff like thin lizzy led zep etc and I also like the eighties big hair stuff which this amp is perfect for

I always wondered what these 60W amps sound like but I know many forum members swear by them.

I can honestly say it sounds just like you would expect a really great example of a MKIIC+ to sound but with some slight differences.
This is my third MKIIc+ the other two being fully loaded simul class and this 60watter is right up there with them , the lack of eq doesent seem to have a negative impact on the tone in any way as it sounds phenominal without an eq but... out of curiousity I put an eq in the loop yesterday and its just the same as using an on board graphic ,I also tried a furman sound PQ-3 which is a parametric eq and preamp combined ,I put that into the front end of the MKIIc+ and I muzzled the furman PQ-3 with an MXR smartgate and that sounded incredible ! I actually prefer the sound and feel produced by using that method compared to using the loop but then I am a really big fan of the furman PQ-3
I Hope I dont get flamed for saying this but to my ears and ymmv but... the non eq tone of this 60 watt non eq amp is much better than the tone Ive had when using a DRG MKIIc+ with its on board graphic eq switched off
I have to admit Im working from memory to a minor degree on that but.... I distinctly remember I couldnt get on with my other two DRG MKIIc+ when the onboard graphic eq was switched off which left me with the mistaken conclusion that a MKIIc+ would need to have an onboard GEQ to be any good and yet... this 60 watter non eq version shines without an eq

The other thing Ive noticed today is the 60 watter seems to have a faster much more sensitive response to playing touch than I remember the fully loaded simul amps having that I previously owned and it also has for want of a better word more bite when digging in with a pick.
I suppose that I could be imagining this as I no longer have a fully loaded simul to actually compare against the non eq 60 watter but... Im pretty sure about it and if it is true and not my imagination then I dont know if the difference is due to not having an onboard eq or not having simul class... ?
I am hoping to be able to make an direct a/b comparison of mine against a fully loaded simul in the next day or two.. I will soon see then if its my feeble aged mind just playing tricks on me
Im not sure one amp would be better than the other but I do think there are differences ... I definitely wouldnt kick a fully loaded simul class out of bed...

I remember that ad. I think he was selling it as a IIC and didn't even know it was a IIC+, maybe that's why he only wanted £800. Either way, you got a really good deal on that amp.
I was close to buying it myself but I've already got an upgraded IIC+ HRGX. But still that price was really tempting so I'm glad you've snapped it up, you've saved me from spending the rest of my money. Besides, I'm really looking for a fully loaded factory IIC+ DRG with 105PT anyways.

Why did you sell your previous IIC+'s? Didn't you like them? Where are you from? I live near Maidenhead. If you're close we could get together some time and a/b our amps.

I don't think any one of the different IIC+ models/options is better but a specific model might be better suited to a certain player.
In the end they're all just different flavors and you should buy the one that suits YOU best.

Anyway, have fun with your new amp, you got a great deal there :mrgreen:

 

[mule#1]

Great Amp and great story! I have a non EQ 60 watt and really love it. I almost had the EQ added by Mike B. but decided against it. I haven't even tried one in the loop yet but I'm glad to hear it's close to the same effect. Congrats on your purchase!

 

[Sanctuary]

Awesome amp. I have a 60 watt head C+ non GEQ with reverb, and it's amazing. I will never get rid of it.