Does LSS Cut it Live

[Leroy the Massochist]

I am starting to be frustrated by my expensive investment and wonder how others are going with their LSS live. I note I haven't seen any big names use a LSS however a lot use LSC - (from Foo Fighters to Stings guitarist)

1. Biggest dissapointment is a clean (no break up) sound that I can hear over the drums (currently I find it compresses and is thin) and match to the volume of channel 2. I run channel 2 master past half way and overdrive less than half way. Particularly frustrating givenb how fantastic it sounds in a bedroom.
2. A slight break up sound on Channel 2 decays very quickly and sounds week
3. Last set of the night, as we do, we get a bit more excited and I like to flick the the overdrive switch on channel 2. I has a big volume jump that is hard to manage on stage and creates an even bigger issue juggling with Channel 1 clean.

I have almost resorted to forgetting channel 1 for anything other than studio and using the guitars volume control on channel 2 but when you do a standard cover like Bryan Adams Run to You, the big clean guitar riff in the middle just sound terrible for me at the moment, just too compressed.

By the way, for those that think they have a great sounding overdrive at bedroom levels, the wonderful news is wait until you really crank this amp up, you will then hate your bedroom level sound, it smokes at band volume.

 

[GeoBull]

I have an LSS and an LSC; I've used them both at gigs but not the LSS at a loud one. I have used the LSS in loud situations and actually LOVED it. I found that I could get a reasonably clean sound; also that if I wanted to go with Gain at around 2:30 I got a GREAT growling but still reasonably clean sound. Naturally, the LSC stays cleaner, louder; however, I love both amps and find myself loving the ease of hauling the LSS to jams, etc.

BTW...did a jam this weekend at a studio; the other guitar player had a Bruno (I think an Underground 30). The thing did sound GREAT at what it did, however: the LSS easily held its own and was MUCH cleaner. No dis on the Bruno; if money were no object I'd probably have one (and actually could have if I hadn't bought two Mesa's). However, I love the Mesa company and quality and think that between the LSS and LSC I have much greater flexibility.

 

[RocksOff]

What kind of guitar are you using with the amp when having these problems?

 

[Leroy the Massochist]

I use an Epihone Dot Delux with Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge and 59 in the neck.

Have been thinking I might need a tele for clean and then thought hangon, Robben Ford has a great clean sound live with a Les Paul with the same pickups.

 

[jonp]

I tried a LSS Head and 2x12 cab for a week. At home it was great. When I played it live with the band - a not too loud acoustic rock with drums band - I had trouble hearing my Rickenbacker 12 cut through. There was just not enough clean head room. Les Paul through Ch2 was fine but still very round sounding and ,although plenty loud enough, just not that clear. I now have an Express 5:50 2x12 which gives me the cut required. More versatile than LSS - it can Rock as well as blues. Rickenbacker 12 cuts through the band really well.

Both are good amps but the Express suits me better.

 

[Sling Blade]

I tried a LSS Head and 2x12 cab for a week. At home it was great. When I played it live with the band - a not too loud acoustic rock with drums band - I had trouble hearing my Rickenbacker 12 cut through. There was just not enough clean head room. Les Paul through Ch2 was fine but still very round sounding and ,although plenty loud enough, just not that clear. I now have an Express 5:50 2x12 which gives me the cut required. More versatile than LSS - it can Rock as well as blues. Rickenbacker 12 cuts through the band really well.

Both are good amps but the Express suits me better.

How does the 550 Express do playing with a band? I will soon be playing in my first band. I am curious to see how the Express keeps up. Is the 50 watts enough? Do you have to mic the amp all the time? If so what's the best way to mic the amp? The band leader told me everything would be going through a sound board, so I know My amp will be amped regardless

 

[jonp]

5:50 Express 2x12 plenty loud enough for a full band. Playing medium pubs and clubs we do not mike the backline at all. The Express has fullness and cut which does not seem to interfere with bass or vocals too much.

 

[ursinus]

Here's a possible solution:

Use the slave out of the LSS into the loop return of the LSC. This should give you the volume you need and the tone without comprimise. Let us know if it works....

 

[simonich]

Here's a possible solution:

Use the slave out of the LSS into the loop return of the LSC. This should give you the volume you need and the tone without comprimise. Let us know if it works....

Or any other relatively high power amp for that matter. Yes, let us know how it goes if you try this...

 

[Leroy the Massochist]

I tried two things that made a big difference last night to improve the clean:

1. I actually turned the gain up to about 11 and the master down to 11 also. This significantly reduced the compression and I got a gritty clean sound at the write volume that had some attitude that I liked and when playing with the fingers I could get it clean. Heavy strumming however would produce bass flab - I think the speaker struggles with the amps bottom end.
2. I used neck pick up with bridge in single coil mode and it was much cleaner.

I also went out into the crowd and it was louder than I thought, although the clean is a bit like an atomic bomb it really mushrooms with top and bottom end. I guess you have to be careful with a combo on the floor and standing to close to it. I pull the rear casters off so that it tilts back.

Thanks for the feedback. I am happier but not satisfied - think the LSC is the gigging amp - perhaps the marketing hype could mention this.

PS Why are these amps going up in price in Oz when the Asutralian dollar is fying against the greenback.

 

[GeoBull]

I use an Epihone Dot Delux with Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge and 59 in the neck.

I use a Parker Fly Mojo which has JB in bridge, Jazz in neck. Obviously, a different guitar in terms of wood, etc. As I said, I haven't used the amp at a loud gig yet; but have used it in loud situations and loved it.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

I've never understood why the LSS wasn't built with channel one being a non master. Simply volume. With 30 watts in class A with EL84's, it would be perfect. Natural crunch after a point. Then channel 2 can do the fizz, fuzz, ect.

I've read many complaints about headroom in this rig and a 30 watt amp with EL84's in class A is never gonna have enough clean headroom without a clean channel.

Hell, even the Vai Carvin 100 watt amp has a clean channel without a master. Hell, even a Peavey Classic 30 has a non master clean channel.

I mean, I know Mesa is not about clean, but it's the reason people buy a lot of other amps.

Best of luck

 

[JAZZGEAR]

I love the LSS clean tones...I just wish they remained available at higher volumes with a band. That's why I sold mine.....
Perfectly happy with the cleans from my LSC & RK II.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Never used a LSS.... but I've also never found that I could get a very loud clean tone out of an EL84 amp. EL84s are for 'clean with a bit of hair' as far as I'm concerned. Cool sound, but not for me. It's also why I won't delve into the sub 30w range ever again (I like the headroom that only 50w+ can provide).

 

[screamingdaisy]

I've read many complaints about headroom in this rig and a 30 watt amp with EL84's in class A is never gonna have enough clean headroom without a clean channel.

EL84s are never going to have enough clean headroom even if there's only one knob, no EQ and no MV. It's just not the nature of that type of tube.

 

[geddyentwistle]

a few thoughts....

what the audience hears is not what you hear when the amp is facing the back of your calves

try an extension cabinet

try different el84s

try the hard bypass (which removes the solo boost)

mic the amp

position yourself differently from the drummer, rest of the band


a different amp maybe the answer, but there are many things to try before throwing in the towel....

 

[Mountain Fever]

Just one guy's opinion....

I think Mesa (like any company) builds to attract as many types of buyers as possible. There are many of us who want something that is able to get some really nice sounds without having to alienate the neighbors. The LSS does that. Really nice sounds at lower volumes.

It's kind of like buying a car because it gets 30 miles to the gallon and then wishing you could tow your boat with it as though it was a 3/4 ton truck. They're just different creatures.

It seems that mic'ing a really great sound should be an option for you.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

I digress.

4 EL84's will put out 50 watts. The LSS's claim to being pure class A is questionable, so........

With a clean, non master volume channel it would have tons of headroom, just like Peavey Classic 50, or a Carvin Bel Air. I just think it would make it a much more giggable amp.

I don't own a LSS, so don't have a dog in this fight, but........ I have owned a Peavey Classic 50, and worked with a guy that used a Carvin Bel Air (still is), and I know for a positive fact that a 4;EL84 amp can have tons of clean headroom IF it has a non master volume channel.

Like I said, clean is not what Mesa is about, but it is easily done. And it is desirable to a lot of players who don't need, or want, two dirty channels.

Best to ya'll.

 

[JAZZGEAR]

I digress.

4 EL84's will put out 50 watts. The LSS's claim to being pure class A is questionable, so........

With a clean, non master volume channel it would have tons of headroom, just like Peavey Classic 50, or a Carvin Bel Air. I just think it would make it a much more giggable amp.

I don't own a LSS, so don't have a dog in this fight, but........ I have owned a Peavey Classic 50, and worked with a guy that used a Carvin Bel Air (still is), and I know for a positive fact that a 4;EL84 amp can have tons of clean headroom IF it has a non master volume channel.

Like I said, clean is not what Mesa is about, but it is easily done. And it is desirable to a lot of players who don't need, or want, two dirty channels.

Best to ya'll.

I could be wrong, but that Peavey & Carvin are not Pure Class A Amps.... :shock:

 

[skoora]

I tried two things that made a big difference last night to improve the clean:

1. I actually turned the gain up to about 11 and the master down to 11 also. This significantly reduced the compression and I got a gritty clean sound at the write volume that had some attitude that I liked and when playing with the fingers I could get it clean. Heavy strumming however would produce bass flab - I think the speaker struggles with the amps bottom end.
2. I used neck pick up with bridge in single coil mode and it was much cleaner.

I also went out into the crowd and it was louder than I thought, although the clean is a bit like an atomic bomb it really mushrooms with top and bottom end. I guess you have to be careful with a combo on the floor and standing to close to it. I pull the rear casters off so that it tilts back.

Thanks for the feedback. I am happier but not satisfied - think the LSC is the gigging amp - perhaps the marketing hype could mention this.

PS Why are these amps going up in price in Oz when the Asutralian dollar is fying against the greenback.

It's not the speaker. It's a 90 watt celestion and it can handle anything that amp throws at it. It's just the preamp design on the Mesa. Your're probably at a very borderline setting on the bass control that when hit hard flabs out. I found with humbuckers that I wasn't getting the bass above 9 O'clock unless it was quite clean in the front end.

I recently tried a new LSC and got to use an attenuator so I could max the master. Let me tell you if you're not getting the master's up over 12 O'Clock on a Lonestar you're missing out on some fantastic dirty tones. The preamp control and the master really work together to give you a final sound. The overdrive really opens up and you lose some of the typical Boogie compression that tames a lot of their amps.

Any of you 100 watt LSC folks out there have only been using half of an amp if you've never cranked it.

I think both the LSS and LSC are OK amps if you use them as master volume amps. If you tweak them in more of a non master style (ie. master very high, preamp up to taste) they are fantastic amps. Plus if you have your dirt happening with less preamp level the EQ will be much more responsive.