Do you need a tube amp if you don't play loudly???

[Kapn.K]

Wow. I've never heard of them before. I found their site. You were looking at that HT-5? Thing looks pretty sweet. 2 Channels! That thing has a lot of features. It also looks like something they'd be asking $700 bucks for. That's how much I payed for my maverick. Do you know the street price for them? Have you had a chance to play with any of their line?

 

[Kapn.K]

OK. $399 guitar center. I never make it to the big stores. That's probably why I hadn't heard of them. If it sounds good, that's a steal. My friends buy lots of guitars. I like amps. It seems like a crappy guitar will sound great through a good amp but a great guitar sounds like crap through a crappy amp. That's my reasoning, anyway. Before I found that gibson, I was looking at one of those new orange tiny terror combo's(they too were as much as my mesa). There's a iic+ on ebay right now for $12 or $1300. Not that it applies to the thread but stuff like that makes my mouth water.

 

[ryjan]

They even come in a tiny little head or a combo. My brother-in-law is getting me one for my b-day this year and I cant wait to tell everyone that he gave me a little head! :lol:

 

[user 16490]

Yes, the HT-5 head. The head by itself is $300. Their cabinets use 10" speakers but I'm not interested in those, I'd use it with a separate cab. Do a search on Youtube for "Blackstar HT-5" and you'll find a lot of clips. Some good, some bad.

 

[Koreth]

"Do you need a tube amp if you don't play loudly???"

No. But by the same token, if you're not playing loudly, you don't need a loud solid state amp either. However, as has been mentioned previously, a tube amp can offer more tone shaping and coloration options than a solid state amp. You *can* use a 4x12 and a 100w head in your bedroom, but it is not ideal. When I fire up my amp, I close the doors to my room. I also don't play after 10pm, when people start heading to bed. Thus I get along with the others in the house and with the neighborhood. I also don't turn up past a comfortable volume without earplugs (which I use anyway to be on the safe side). Even at those low volumes, my Nomad sounds fine.

However, it sounds undeniably BETTER at higher volume when at rehearsal in the studio where the band practices. If you're not playing with a band and not gigging, it's hard to use a powerful tube amp to it's full potential.

 

[MikeK]

The HT-5, although interesting, doesn't hold my confidence that a 12AX7/7025/ECC83 will give up enough 'chug' to make it worth the while. 6L6's are the ticket for that. Besides, the last time I looked the volume and gain knobs go from 0 to 10. There's enough real estate there to find that sphere within the area between speaker(s) and pickup(s) where tone dwells. I'm sure you all know what I mean. And while tone shaping and reproduction can be nice to the ears, it just can not beat what you get from using a tube amplifier with a little volume to create that tonal wave ride. The answer to your question is no, you don't need a tube amp. But the fact is if you play guitar, you might really want one.

 

[Geiri]

Dude

if you are set on a solid state then so be it. But if you want a tube amp an ENGL screamer is a bargain. 50 watts tube power, 4 channels and is simple the best amp on the market for the price. I'm a boogie dude myself but I also own a screamer because I find the engl tone equally addictive.

mk5 $ 2000
engl screamer $ 1300.

You do the math.

 

[user 16490]

No, I'm not set on solid state, not at all. This thread was started almost 2 months ago, so I've had a lot of time to research and listen to different amps. I've come to the conclusion that there isn't a solid state amp out there that I'd be happy with.

That leaves me with getting a tube amp or a really really good modeler. My concern with modelers is that they'll make every guitar sound the same. A friend of mine has a Line 6 Spider III 1x12. He has a Strat and an Epiphone LP and they sound essentially the same. As an experiment we plugged my bass into it and I hit an E power chord across the A, D, & G strings and it didn't sound much different. I don't want that, I want to hear differences between the guitars I use. I *think* the Spider amp models are based on the original POD or POD 2.0, so that's pretty old technology.

I like what I've seen, read, and heard about the Fractal Audio Axe-FX, but I'd like it to be a little more 'seasoned' before I'd consider getting one. I don't know what modeler would fall next in line. I saw some clips of a Digitech unit (RP1000?) on YouTube that sounded pretty good, but other than that I don't know.

That Engl Screamer you suggested sounds pretty good from what I've heard. As far as the Mesa stuff goes, I'd probably only consider the Roadster or Mark V. I'm also curious about that Blackstar HT-5 head. It's only $300, and there are some clips on YouTube showing some serious chug coming out of it.

 

[ando]

That leaves me with getting a tube amp or a really really good modeler. My concern with modelers is that they'll make every guitar sound the same. A friend of mine has a Line 6 Spider III 1x12. He has a Strat and an Epiphone LP and they sound essentially the same. As an experiment we plugged my bass into it and I hit an E power chord across the A, D, & G strings and it didn't sound much different. I don't want that, I want to hear differences between the guitars I use. I *think* the Spider amp models are based on the original POD or POD 2.0, so that's pretty old technology.

Yep, Line 6 is rubbish.

 

[Kapn.K]

These are a couple heads that I like the sound of. The price is right, too.

http://www.orangeamps.com/products.asp?Action=View&ID=78
http://www.voxamps.com/us/modernclassic/nighttrain/

 

[Turumbar82]

Dude

if you are set on a solid state then so be it. But if you want a tube amp an ENGL screamer is a bargain. 50 watts tube power, 4 channels and is simple the best amp on the market for the price. I'm a boogie dude myself but I also own a screamer because I find the engl tone equally addictive.

mk5 $ 2000
engl screamer $ 1300.

You do the math.

+1 on the ENGL screamer.

There is also the Engl Thunder head. They are $775 brand new right now at houseofenglamps.com!

 

[Kapn.K]

I can't see where he was set on a solid state, anywhere. Although a sweet amp, I think 50watts is way too big for what he's asking about. I own a 5, 35, & 60watt(all three are tubes). I never play the big one. When I took it over to a hard rocking band's practice room, they all cried about how loud it was(the 2 12's were walking on a guy's Hot Rod Deluxe). If you mostly jam by yourself or with a friend, a 5 watter will do it. I might get rid of my 5 and get a 15/7.5w amp like the two I listed. Unless you're gigging(or just don't care about anyone, else), a 50 watter will never get a chance to breathe and sound good.

 

[Cleekster]

That leaves me with getting a tube amp or a really really good modeler. My concern with modelers is that they'll make every guitar sound the same. A friend of mine has a Line 6 Spider III 1x12. He has a Strat and an Epiphone LP and they sound essentially the same. As an experiment we plugged my bass into it and I hit an E power chord across the A, D, & G strings and it didn't sound much different. I don't want that, I want to hear differences between the guitars I use. I *think* the Spider amp models are based on the original POD or POD 2.0, so that's pretty old technology.

Yep, Line 6 is rubbish.

NO....Line 6 spiders are rubbish.............my ax2 212 through my mesa cab sounds quite good consideringit's a modeler and the Vetta II is vast improvement over that....Honestly my rect-o-verb doesn't really sound ANY BETTER to my ears at extremely low volumes so in the OP's situation i would go with my modeler EVERYTIME.

 

[user 16490]

Thanks for the additional replies guys, I appreciate it. The majority of tube amps out there have way more power than I'd ever use, there's no question about that. I'd never even get close to power tube distortion. That being said, since I'd barely be pushing the power section in the first place, would it really matter if I got a 5 watt amp or a 100 watt amp???

Just as an example, if I'm 'using' 1 watt of an amp's power, on a 5 watt amp that'd be 20% (1/5) while on a 100 watt amp it'd only be 1% (1/100). There'd obviously be less clean headroom on the 5 watter, but since I'd never use all of it anyway does it even make a difference? If it does make a difference, I could always use use THD Yellowjackets to reduce the power of a higher wattage amp down to something more reasonable, as was suggested early on in the thread.

Price isn't a huge factor, but I'm not going to go nuts and spend $4-5k on something. The major consideration is getting a great tone, and I appreciate the amp suggestions all of you have made. $775 is great deal for that ENGL Thunder head, but the 5-6 clips I saw of it on YouTube all sounded like ***. I'm sure it sounds much better in person. That houseofenglamps.com website seems to be blowing out all of the ENGL stuff. No returns or exchanges either... I wonder what's up with that?

Keep talkin'....


Edit - another question: I know Mesa makes a low wattage stereo tube power amp, the 20/20. Are there any other low wattage models out there from other manufacturers, either stereo or mono?

 

[ando]

That leaves me with getting a tube amp or a really really good modeler. My concern with modelers is that they'll make every guitar sound the same. A friend of mine has a Line 6 Spider III 1x12. He has a Strat and an Epiphone LP and they sound essentially the same. As an experiment we plugged my bass into it and I hit an E power chord across the A, D, & G strings and it didn't sound much different. I don't want that, I want to hear differences between the guitars I use. I *think* the Spider amp models are based on the original POD or POD 2.0, so that's pretty old technology.

Yep, Line 6 is rubbish.

NO....Line 6 spiders are rubbish.............my ax2 212 through my mesa cab sounds quite good consideringit's a modeler and the Vetta II is vast improvement over that....Honestly my rect-o-verb doesn't really sound ANY BETTER to my ears at extremely low volumes so in the OP's situation i would go with my modeler EVERYTIME.

Well, I'm glad for you that you are pleased with your Line6, but I have had no good experiences with them. The louder you crank them, the worse they get. I was loaned one of their "best models" for a gig and it was horrible. I don't think they have the equation right as a whole amp. Maybe it was the speaker/cab design, but it had no feel at all at louder volumes. Interesting that you say it sounds great through a Mesa Cab though. Maybe that's where Line6 fall down. Having said that, I don't think the Line6 pedal range is as good as the Boss range, for example. Just my opinion.

 

[Turumbar82]

Thanks for the additional replies guys, I appreciate it. The majority of tube amps out there have way more power than I'd ever use, there's no question about that. I'd never even get close to power tube distortion. That being said, since I'd barely be pushing the power section in the first place, would it really matter if I got a 5 watt amp or a 100 watt amp???

Just as an example, if I'm 'using' 1 watt of an amp's power, on a 5 watt amp that'd be 20% (1/5) while on a 100 watt amp it'd only be 1% (1/100). There'd obviously be less clean headroom on the 5 watter, but since I'd never use all of it anyway does it even make a difference? If it does make a difference, I could always use use THD Yellowjackets to reduce the power of a higher wattage amp down to something more reasonable, as was suggested early on in the thread.

Price isn't a huge factor, but I'm not going to go nuts and spend $4-5k on something. The major consideration is getting a great tone, and I appreciate the amp suggestions all of you have made. $775 is great deal for that ENGL Thunder head, but the 5-6 clips I saw of it on YouTube all sounded like ***. I'm sure it sounds much better in person. That houseofenglamps.com website seems to be blowing out all of the ENGL stuff. No returns or exchanges either... I wonder what's up with that?

Keep talkin'....


Edit - another question: I know Mesa makes a low wattage stereo tube power amp, the 20/20. Are there any other low wattage models out there from other manufacturers, either stereo or mono?

Yeah I'm wondering if houseofengls might be closing down or something.


If you did have a 5 watt amp you would be able to push the power section a lot easier than a 100watter. 5 watts tube pushed is suprisingly loud. What kind of music do you play? Is power tube saturation important to you? Most modern music relies on preamp gain rather than power tube distortion.

 

[user 16490]

5 watts tube pushed is surprisingly loud.

Absolutely!

If you did have a 5 watt amp you would be able to push the power section a lot easier than a 100 watter.

Yes, I realize that, but what I'm saying is, since it wouldn't be getting pushed in the first place, would it make a difference regardless of what wattage amp I used? If you think of reaching power tube distortion the same as hitting the red line on a car, imagine you have 2 cars, one with a 5000 rpm red line and another with a 9000 rpm red line, and you're driving along at 3000 rpms. If you know you'll never exceed 3500 rpms, does it make a difference?

What kind of music do you play? Is power tube saturation important to you? Most modern music relies on preamp gain rather than power tube distortion.

I need my palm-muted chug, so in that respect preamp gain is where it's at for me. I'd also like a really good EVH 'brown sound.' Also a SRV bluesy breakup sound. I'm not hyper critical about my cleans, but I'd want them to be good, of course. I don't know if that's asking too much from one amp or not. I'm not a fan of pedals, so I'd like to avoid that if possible.

I like a very focused, dry, un-effected sound for metal rhythm stuff. Over the top 80's metal drenched in chorus is not me. I'm a big Satriani fan, but a lot of Surfing With The Alien is almost unlistenable to my ears.

I was watching some of the ENGL clips on Youtube that someone posted in another thread. From 5:00 - 5:22 in this one is what I'd call 'dry' when he's palm muting. I'm not sure how other would describe it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbOI_9IzGss

 

[MikeK]

Cruising along at 3500 rpm on a motor that redlines at 5K is a LOT more comfortable than cruising on one that peaks out at 9. That ENGL clip you shared sounds like one of the later. He's playing very loud in that example. The amp is set up with high gain preamp tubes pushing what sounds to me to be EL34's. Playing this rig as it's set up at '3.5k' would give a very clean tone. I think you should try an LSS. It has a nice low watt mode and those EL84's give those musical influences you mentioned a better foundation for compromise at low volume. Hope this is helpful.

 

[jlomonac]

hey! after reading all the post i can only offer my experience hehehe, i have a dual recto roadster combo with 2x12, this amp has a 50 w and 100w switch, i have this at home and its no problem, but it can be very loud if you start cranking it! but at low volumes it still sounds the same (not volumes wise but tone and dist. wise) as when it is loud, it can definetly handled jamming and even small shows, but if you are only a hobby player then this amp might too much. i would suggest maybe one of the smaller ones like the 5:50 like the others said, you still get the tone distortion and loudness yet you can play at home without the cops showing up xD

 

[Kapn.K]

Don't know your electro-mechanical skills but maybe you could build a small one or two watt tube amp and connect it to the speaker of your choice. There are many plans and kits available for this. ax84 is a great site and you can google many others. Check this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovs0s4T2AQM