DC-3 vs 22+

[bigbean]

What are the differences in a DC-3 compared to a 22+? Obviously a DC-3 has a more versatile set of controls and somewhat more power but are the tonal characteristics similar? Does a DC-3 with 4 EL84s run significantly hotter? Does the DC-3 do a better job with single coils or low output pickups?

I'm interested to hear any input from experienced owners of these models.

 

[bigbean]

 

[tonejam]

Sorry, guess nobody has both amps!

 

[kludge]

I actually just compared the two today, as a local shop has a couple of DC-3s and I was considering trading in my .22+ on one. For tone, I can't say one is better than the other, either way. They're different. The .22 is more aggressive and brighter. The DC-3 is darker and smoother. It's also a little less noisy than the .22+, but not by a lot. Master volume is a bit friendlier.

I think the speaker difference counts for much of the tonal difference, as the DC-3 has a Celestion Vintage 30, and the Eminence-made Black Shadow in the .22 is very middy and kind of harsh to my ears. On a whim, I took the .22 back home and put in a different speaker, a Weber 12A150 that was gathering dust. I was immediately rewarded with MUCH smoother, sweeter tone - so much that I think the Weber would be a TERRIFIC upgrade for any .22+. But I think I'm going to restore the .22+ back to stock and make the trade, because I think the DC-3 would be a more practical gigging amp for me, and I really like but don't love the .22+.

I suppose what I should REALLY do is bring my Mark I along before committing for comparison. That's the best amp I've ever owned, and I suspect it'll send the DC-3 crying for its mama. But it's also heavy, no fx or channel switching, etc, and I want a more friendly gigging amp, y'know?

 

[igfraso]

If you want to make a proper comparison, get a Studio .22+ with a Black Shadow Celestion 90 and the Lead Drive mod.

 

[kludge]

I don't think the speaker match is that necessary. The same shop had a .50 Caliber head hooked up to a Marshall 4x12, and it had the same basic character as the .22+. Sounded much more similar to the .22+ than either did to the DC-3 (or the Mark III they also had). The Calibers definitely sounded different overall from the DC-3 - brighter and more dynamic. The DC-3 sounded smoother and warmer overall.

I still want to repeat this experiment with my Mark I. It pretty much trounces the .22+ for weight and authority, but doesn't have the smoothed-off edges the DC-3 had. And I'm REALLY interested in comparing the cleans.

 

[bigbean]

Thanks for the informed opinion.

The DC-3 is warmer and smoother. Does the extra set of output tubes give it any moore touch-type headroom?

What about heat? (I guess you'd have to let on for at least 30 minute to be able to gauge that.)

What do they want for the DC-3?

 

[kludge]

Hard to say. I've gigged with the .22 with no problems, but it's not metal or other super-loud needs either. It definitely has that way-louder-than-it-should-be Boogie thing. But my Mark I benches 46 watts with two power tubes, and it's INSANE LOUD. I spent two hours with it wide open in the studio, and I couldn't hear all afternoon afterward!

The thing is, neither EL84-based amp had the sense of effortlessness that the Mark I has (or the Mark III I played next to them). This wasn't at volumes anywhere NEAR their ceilings, either. Not even gigging volume, although fairly loud. But that sense of available power - that's different from headroom, I think.

 

[kludge]

Oh, and the shop has two, at $650 and $675. The $675 one is in better physical shape. And the .50 Caliber head was $650 and the Mark III was $1100 iirc. Dunno about the heat. My .22 overheats. I had problems using it on a tiltback stand. If I keep the .22, I'm putting a fan in. If I get one of the DC-3s, I'll put a fan in that.

 

[bigbean]

A 22+ is plenty loud especially with the extension cab.

I like the more transparent sound of the 22+ compared to a higher wattage Mk whatevers or a Lonestar. I don't really have any experience with the Hi/Lo switched output type products. But in general I don't want to carry anything around that I don't need. I'd rather just have a 5 watt amp that weighs 10 lbs than a 50/25/15/5/.5 that weighs 50.

Rant begins here- It may sound wonderful but at this point ( I'm 58) I'm not buying any guitar or bass equipment that weighs more than 40 lbs. I don't care what it sounds like or how good of a deal it is.

Excuse my rant, but I'll also say that any company that makes a 60 lb + object and puts a single suitcase handle on it should be sued or at least screamed at for their stupidity. Maybe the people in the organization who approved it should be made to carry it up two flights of stairs a couple times a day until they get it. Mesa is not alone in this but give me a break. Not all of this product gets transported to and from gigs by crew.

Rant over

Over the years I've found that, in general, lower powered, i.e. simpler circuits sound best. I'm thinking that possibly a DC3 could give me everything that I like about a 22+ with a little smoother sound and true two channel tonal flexability. Or not/ maybe I'll just ignore my GAS pains and play the gear I've got.................... but probably not.

 

[Bob Anthony]

I find the Studio .22 pretty hard to beat, and its weight is manageable. Its been awhile since I played a DC3 but it seems equally good.

 

[MJ Slaughter]

I have a recently acquired DC-3 combo that I've used at a couple of rehearsals and two gigs so far. I'm a bit of a DC fan boy having owned a DC-5 combo and currently a DC-10 head and 2x12 cabinet. As much as like like my DC-10 I find the DC-3 to be perfect for gigging and rehearsing. Still way loud if you don't watch it but plenty of headroom for my different projects and I like the lead channel. I do use some OD pedals in the clean channel for more variations of light to heavy crunch too. It's easy to carry, reliable and when I use my Mesa Thiele it gives me a great full sound. Not that the combo by it's self doesn't sound good but an extension cab always adds more when you want it.

bigbean,

You are so right. If a combo is going to weigh in at 70-90 lbs why not have a better way of picking it up instead of one handle on top? Or as far as I'm concerned, why even build it in a combo? If it stays in one place most the time then great but for the club musician without a road crew they suck at 2:00 AM loading into the back of a car.

 

[bigbean]

Amen! My Brotherman.

70 lb devices with single suitcase handles on the top are for fools and mules!

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Amen! My Brotherman.

70 lb devices with single suitcase handles on the top are for fools and mules!

:lol: :lol: That's exactly why I cut some Sessions spring loaded handles into the sides of my Heartbreaker combo. Way too freaking heavy for a single handle!


I had at one time, a DC-2, 3, 5, 10, Studio 22+, .50 Cal + (6L6), and a Mark IV A.
The DC-3 was definitely one of the best sounding out of them.
I ended up keeping the 10 for the extra ooommmppphhh though.

Been missing my DC-3 ever since.

I liked the .22 +, but hated the shared EQ thing. I use my GEQ for a lead boost and didn't want to dedicate it to my distortion tones only.
The 3 definitely has a lot more headroom than the 22.
I thought my 3 was a little shrill though. I replaced the V-30 with a Heritage 30 and used it with an EV loaded Thiele cab. It sounded really great for ZZ Top kind of tones.
The 22 definitely sounded much better with a Mojotone or Heritage 30 in it as well. I've never liked the Vintage Black Shadow speaker.

I can't offer my opinions on which one is better. It's been too long ago. But I would say that the DC definitely has more sustain and a much smoother distortion than the .22. I really liked how raw the .22 sounded though. Can't own them all........ :lol: At least not for long! :lol: