Balanced volume between clean,LO, and HI

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I understand your point, YJ, in that you can get a super-flexible amp from Mesa, but not one with these particular tones. However, I have the opposite opinion about the flexibility. I would never have considered the Dyne if it had been designed like a Roadster. Too many switches and knobs. I love the simplicity. I bought it completely on impulse because I plugged in and it was great. Period. I looked at the Road King and Roadster a while back, and had no interest at all due to the overwhelming complexity. I think there are a lot of players who don't want to have to RTFM to use the amp, me included.

The ONLY thing that I think would be a good addition to the Dyne would be mode-selectable power. I would like to run clean at 90W and vintage at 45W. But I can (and do) live without that.

However, I'm OK if Mesa changes the design into a super-flexible confusion machine. I already have mine :lol:
 
I don`t think it was just the pickups either...we tried a LP. Solved half of the difference. using a clean boost and an eq was used up front.....then another problem arose. presets using G system were much quicker than mode switching programmed together. In short volume would lag behind when going to clean and lag behind when going back to Lo/HI. It can get really screwed up. A mini amp gizmo and midi were next.......but i had enough! way too much hassle and extra costs just to get things level! YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO TO THESE EXTREMES ON A $1700)) AMP!
 
Agreed. I'd be very disappointed if I were you. It has to be that much more frustrating knowing that others have had a totally different experience with the amp. Sorry, man. I had a Harley Davidson that just wouldn't run right, no matter how many times I had it in the shop. I know exactly how you feel. I sold it and am less likely to buy another, even though it has been my dream to get a Road King Classic (the bike, not the amp :lol: )
 
jeffp said:
I don`t think it was just the pickups either...we tried a LP. Solved half of the difference. using a clean boost and an eq was used up front.....then another problem arose. presets using G system were much quicker than mode switching programmed together. In short volume would lag behind when going to clean and lag behind when going back to Lo/HI. It can get really screwed up. A mini amp gizmo and midi were next.......but i had enough! way too much hassle and extra costs just to get things level! YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO TO THESE EXTREMES ON A $1700)) AMP!
Click to expand...

This is definitely one gigantic mystery. I mean it sounds and acts like a problem but a tech can't find it? You said MESA couldn't find it either back at the factory? This whole thing is very suspicious. I mean MY AMP DOES NOT DO THIS. I am entirely perplexed.

I'm curious, could the Dyne be modified to have a separate gain pot for Clean and Vintage Hi / Lo or would this screw the whole thing up?
 
Tech could not find it.......Consulted with MB and said it was "normal".The tech said the other ED combos were the same way. That`s where i think he went wrong. MB explained the Norm for ED`s in principle and i think the tech forgot about my specific amp. At that point dealer said take it back or get something else. I did.
Remember when i said turn the volume trim down to balance .........i needed to turn something up!
 
Sounds like a communication problem between the tech and MB. It's also possible, or likely, that the tech just didn't understand what was actually wrong, and was looking for Mesa to tell him "nothing".
 
I don't see how this was a communication problem. For starters, techs can only fix what they can hear. They need a starting point. All Mesa's (even the seemingly simple ED) are much more complicated than the normal amplifier. Mesa's techs are very good at directing their vendor techs towards potential issues that could be causing problems reported by players. Obviously, there is room here for a mistake. That much I understand. I also think though that this could just also be the nature of the ED. I don't hear many people here conceding that fact. Mesa has stated that even with the clean trim added switch, the ED still takes some compromise in matching your cleans and your gain modes. Considering everyone has their own expectations of what is deemed acceptable, this may be a situation where the user, JEFFP, just isn't satisfied with the inherent nature of the ED circuit. Perhaps, there isn't anything wrong with the amp. I mean, why go to the lengths of assuming that the local tech is wrong, that Mesa is perhaps wrong, or that perhaps the amp is a lemon? It sounds like a lot of people are jumping to some unnecessary conclusions. He's tried tubes swaps. He took it to a tech. Mesa has tried directing the tech to potential causes of the problem. I'm sure the tech measured resistors, caps, and anything else to make sure there wasn't anything wrong with the board or any of its components. Couldn't this just be an issue of taste, as opposed to an issue of some folly on the part of Mesa, the tech, and whatever else? It seems like people are going to great lengths to justify their love of the ED by stating that the problem must be somewhere other than the ED itself. Just my opinion though.
 
YellowJacket said:
jeffp said:
I don`t think it was just the pickups either...we tried a LP. Solved half of the difference. using a clean boost and an eq was used up front.....then another problem arose. presets using G system were much quicker than mode switching programmed together. In short volume would lag behind when going to clean and lag behind when going back to Lo/HI. It can get really screwed up. A mini amp gizmo and midi were next.......but i had enough! way too much hassle and extra costs just to get things level! YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO TO THESE EXTREMES ON A $1700)) AMP!
Click to expand...

This is definitely one gigantic mystery. I mean it sounds and acts like a problem but a tech can't find it? You said MESA couldn't find it either back at the factory? This whole thing is very suspicious. I mean MY AMP DOES NOT DO THIS. I am entirely perplexed.

I'm curious, could the Dyne be modified to have a separate gain pot for Clean and Vintage Hi / Lo or would this screw the whole thing up?
Click to expand...

If you wanted to modify the ED in this fashion, you'd have to change everything about it that makes it the ED. You'd have to swap out the PC board for a different one. The PC board, for starters, is the blueprint for how the amp is going to operate.
 
Everyone's ears are different too, as are their opinions. I mean, JEFFP, you had an RA that you also disliked on the foundation that it was an amp with more mids than you could ever dial out. Honestly, from my experience, that hasn't been the case. Heck, I gigged it in a two guitarist outfit. Does that make my opinion justified and yours wrong? No. To my ears, with my ability, etc, etc, I don't find the amp to be overly mid-heavy. It's not even close. Still though, it doesn't make your ears wrong.

Perhaps the ED is really working, for the most part, the way it should be. Aside from your limited time on the amp, it could just be that it isn't your cup of tea. No biggie really, just get a different amp. Mesa's, in general, may also not be the amp for you. To say though that there is a huge comedy of errors occurring where techs, Mesa, tubes, etc are all wrong and that the amp is a lemon; all while the manual states plainly that there are compromises that need to be made in attaining balanced clean and gain tones (per user settings), seems like a bit of a stretch.

JEFFP. I hope you find the amp that gives you the response and output that you are looking for. I hate to see you like this. I know how it feels. Swapping amps, etc. Not fun stuff. And you lose money that way too. Good luck!
:eek:
 
Sox,

It is a fair point. The reason some of us are exploring the possibility that something is wrong with the amp is that Jeffp's experience has not been consistent with our own. Nobody has jumped to any conclusion, except for Jeffp, who concluded he didn't want to keep the amp. I am certainly willing to believe that nothing is wrong with the amp, but in the event that is not the case, I get to brainstorm a bit and have some fun.

In fact, Mesa's own experience with the Dyne seems to reflect mine, in that the clean channel is overly loud as compared to the vintage channels. I believe that Mesa designed it that way, and are aware of it, because they included BOTH a clean master AND a clean gain trim. In addition, I have found that my clean channel, as well as that of 2 other Dynes I have used, is loud as compared to vintage. I have also read others' posts here that claimed to need to reduce the clean volume control in order to tame an overly loud clean mode. Jeffp had the exact opposite experience. Even accounting for differences in guitars, playing style, etc, setting the gain trim to VINTAGE and clean volume to BYPASS and switching to a Les Paul should have allowed for comparable volume of clean vs. vintage.

As for adding a separate clean volume control, it's probably trivial. The volume knob is ganged. All you have to do is add a new knob that has the same specs as the one currently controlling the clean volume, the unsolder the wires from the existing volume pot and move them to the new one. Et voila, separate clean volume. I am, of course, assuming that the Dyne is like other Mesa amps, such that the pots are connected to the PC Board via wires, and not directly mounted to the PC Board. However, the latter would only require a bit of extra work, but no additional design effort.
 
Good post, Elvis. Great points made. I was just trying to write some reasons to justify that perhaps the issue is more player/expectations, than problem with the amp. I mean, sure, techs make mistakes, as can Mesa, etc. Yet still, the amp was brand new, taken to a tech, had the tubes swapped, etc. It just seems likely that the amp is probably good to go. Whether or not it amounts to someone's ideal is a whole other situation altogether. Either way, I think that JeffP should end up with an amp that makes him inspired and happy.

I've spoken to JeffP many times on here. He seems like a great dude, informative, and engaging. I hope he finds "that amp" sooner than later.

Personally, I think the ED is AMAZING. I would've gotten it, but I didn't want to lug around two amps. I couldn't live with one 'Dyne. I need the flexibility.
 
elvis said:
In fact, Mesa's own experience with the Dyne seems to reflect mine, in that the clean channel is overly loud as compared to the vintage channels. I believe that Mesa designed it that way, and are aware of it, because they included BOTH a clean master AND a clean gain trim. In addition, I have found that my clean channel, as well as that of 2 other Dynes I have used, is loud as compared to vintage. I have also read others' posts here that claimed to need to reduce the clean volume control in order to tame an overly loud clean mode. Jeffp had the exact opposite experience. Even accounting for differences in guitars, playing style, etc, setting the gain trim to VINTAGE and clean volume to BYPASS and switching to a Les Paul should have allowed for comparable volume of clean vs. vintage.
Click to expand...

I agree completely. The fact that the Les Paul won't balance between all three modes is suspicious. The argument of "maybe he wants his clean modes to blow away his dirt modes" is inane. This is so perplexing and I can completely understand JeffP's frustration with what otherwise was JUST the amp he wanted.

I have heard the clean mode on my amp physically being much louder than the dirt modes at low volumes. It really 'balances' when the master is around 9:00. I also find the clean channel has an incredible amount of headroom and it is very sensitive to pick attack. If I wack the strings it is much louder than if I pick like a girl.

As for adding a separate clean volume control, it's probably trivial. The volume knob is ganged. All you have to do is add a new knob that has the same specs as the one currently controlling the clean volume, the unsolder the wires from the existing volume pot and move them to the new one. Et voila, separate clean volume. I am, of course, assuming that the Dyne is like other Mesa amps, such that the pots are connected to the PC Board via wires, and not directly mounted to the PC Board. However, the latter would only require a bit of extra work, but no additional design effort.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Having a separate master and volume for each mode would eliminate many 'issues' with this amp. For instance, you could set Vintage Hi louder than Vintage Lo so you can effectively have a louder lead channel. You can also basically set whatever clean tone you want with whatever gain tone you want. The Gain Trim switch does this well enough but being able to balance the levels of each mode manually would just be so much easier. There are also times when I'd prefer to run less gain on Vintage Lo and more gain on Vintage Hi. I like the touch sensitivity of vintage lo but there are times that vintage hi can use a bit more crunch. That being said, when I rehearse with the amp, none of these things seems to matter at all. For me, the thing just works the way it is =-)
 
I`m not blaming anyone.....MB included. Those guys are great!...The dealer was Great!...................I`ll be back for that "SMOOTH AMP" maybe in the next generation format! May`be that will be more for me. I know now what i like and don`t like about the atlantic series and ED, so we`ll see what develops down the road. I certainly will consider MB .Thanks,GUYS!
 
JeffP, I hear you loud and clear on this. I almost didn't pull the trigger on the 'Dyne because of the design limitations. I personally think it would be a far better gigging amp if each mode was a full blown channel with a separate EQ. I mean it simply works live and in the Studio, I could dial in whatever tones I wanted so this argument is moot for me. That being said, I'm left scratching my head. I don't know why mesa would make such a limited design besides to flex their amp building chops. It really is a marvel of engineering the the end result is a compromise that is rather painful for some people but completely workable for others.

If I had separate tone controls per :mode: I could be more picking in how I dialed in my clean channel which I would like. I could also bring the gain down in Vintage Lo while adding definition in the highs. I'd run the gain hotter on Vintage Hi for a smoldering lead tone and I'd back off the volume pot for high gain crunch rhythm...
 
JeffP, perhaps you will want to investigate a Bogner Shiva. Cradlefish sold me his Electra Dyne and used the money to afford a Shiva (EL-34 model). He absolutely loves it!
 

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