Balanced volume between clean,LO, and HI

[MBJunkie]

I no this is an old post of which I have not contributed to in the past. However, I think it is very possible that the ED just didn't work for Jeffp for his gigging amp....just as it didn't work for me.

Honestly, all of his frustrations presented were frustrations of mine as well for the ED not delivering in providing 3 really good balanced footswitchable sounds for live applications. I found it very difficult to not only balance the volumes of the modes, but also to set the shared EQ settings of this amp for a truly great clean, mid gain and high gain balanced footswitchable sound.

Several ED owners probably spend much more time focused on playing in the "blue" and "red" modes, and may rarely if ever switch to the "clean" mode, and that is fine. However, I get the impression that Jeffp appreciates a great footswitchable balanced clean sound much like I require, and also is after the mid/high gain crunch/lead sounds as well.

Jeffp, it looks like you opted for a Marshall already, but if you choose to venture back into MB land....be sure to spend some serious time with the MB MkV.

Several people complain about all of The Mark V knobs and features (so called complexity), but in reality, the V offers incredible flexibility and dedicated controls of each channel with 3 very different mode options of each channel, power selections, etc... In my opinion, setting up my MkV is much easier to obtain what I am after because each channel has dedicated controls and all channels offer 3 very different and useful modes. Is there an initial learning curve?....yes, but not as much as one would think IMO.

Honestly, I think you would bond much better with the V than the ED based on your comments.

This is just my opinion, and I am not slamming the ED in any way (but will probably catch some heat with this reply). My motto.....everybody should go with whatever works best for their needs....period!!

 

[YellowJacket]

Alright, MBJunkie, get your fire suit out!

JeffP has had some problems with his amp quest. The first Electra Dyne he ordered was DOA. The second one was working but in time, a problem cropped up.

JeffP's problem was that he was getting an unusually low signal output from the Clean channel and when he phoned customer service they were saying that there was definitely something wrong with the amp based on his description of the problem. i.e. He needed to boost the clean channel volume, not trim it. His problem was volume related, not tone related. As I understand it, he loves the tone of the Electra Dyne.

So, he send the amp to a tech and the tech reports to Mesa that nothing is wrong with it. For everyone who has used a 'Dyne, they know that the clean 'mode' outpowers the crunch 'modes' when playing at low volumes. It is considerable in some cases. Fiddling with the clean trim pot, fiddling with the controls, and changing the gain trim pot levels would not fix the problem.

To this day, we don't know what happened.

 

[MBJunkie]

YJ....Flame suit on as usual.....I have been torched before!! :mrgreen:

Yeah, I read through the entire thread prior to posting, and it could just be that he got several lemons with the ED (I don't think so) and possibly even the RA (for that matter) based on another thread. Based on his comments....it could also just be the ED didn't work for him? I dunno, I was just giving my opinion.

Please keep in mind that I actually owned the exact same ED that you own for about 8 months, and wanted it to be "my gigging amp" for its simplicity. I tried to gig with it a couple of times, but it just didn't do it for me. It isn't as if I just played the ED in a Guitar Center for 1/2 hour or so.....just saying.

How many times have you gigged with your ED....footswitching between clean, blue and red modes??? Do you reall ever footswitch to clean mode live??? If so, were they balanced and without constant tweaking between/during songs??? If so, great!!

Once again, I think it is great that the ED works perfectly as a gigging amp for so many others.....it just didn't offer the flexibility that I need......and I thought that Jeffp may have been in the same boat (regardless of his unfortunate reliability issues) based on some of his comments. That's all.

 

[elvis]

I am very curious.

For those that find the tone controls a compromise, how do you set them for each mode. Put another way, if you are tweeking each mode for its absolute best tone, what are the exact settings you would use for each mode?

 

[YellowJacket]

YJ....Flame suit on as usual.....I have been torched before!! :mrgreen:

Yeah, I read through the entire thread prior to posting, and it could just be that he got several lemons with the ED (I don't think so) and possibly even the RA (for that matter) based on another thread. Based on his comments....it could also just be the ED didn't work for him? I dunno, I was just giving my opinion.

Like I said, it is a mystery why it wasn't working out for him.

Please keep in mind that I actually owned the exact same ED that you own for about 8 months, and wanted it to be "my gigging amp" for its simplicity. I tried to gig with it a couple of times, but it just didn't do it for me. It isn't as if I just played the ED in a Guitar Center for 1/2 hour or so.....just saying.

Wait, Cradlefish's 'Dyne was yours before?

How many times have you gigged with your ED....footswitching between clean, blue and red modes??? Do you reall ever footswitch to clean mode live??? If so, were they balanced and without constant tweaking between/during songs??? If so, great!!

The amp is fine both live and at rehearsal. The only 'problem' is that it is STINKING LOUD! I generally find that it works to set the levels for Vintage Lo and High first and then use the clean trim pot on the back to balance everything else out.

Once again, I think it is great that the ED works perfectly as a gigging amp for so many others.....it just didn't offer the flexibility that I need......and I thought that Jeffp may have been in the same boat (regardless of his unfortunate reliability issues) based on some of his comments. That's all.

Hey, I agree. The "one channel three modes" design was a stupid decision for an amplifier that would otherwise be one of the best amps ever made, period.

I am very curious.

For those that find the tone controls a compromise, how do you set them for each mode. Put another way, if you are tweeking each mode for its absolute best tone, what are the exact settings you would use for each mode?

Well, the biggest problem is this. When you try and crank the gain for a more saturated lead tone on Vintage Hi, you either end up with a thin lead tone or a boomy clean tone. You also end up with a muddy tone on Vintage Lo at the same time. The solution was to turn the treble and presence up, and to adjust my bridge pickup so it is closer to the strings and give a higher output / more low end overall. This allows me to back off the gain which keeps the cleans from getting muddy too soon. It is a shame though, since these pickups sound better with a bit more clearance away from the strings.

The other major nuisance for me is that I can't set a different volume level for each mode. I would prefer to run the 'Gain' for vintage lo at 12:00 precisely. This gives that wonderful touch sensitive characteristic for blues and lower gain playing. I'd then set the volume up at 2:30 to 3:30 for Vintage Hi which would allow me to have a great lead tone and then I can ride the volume pot for a more aggressive crunch rhythm sound. If I had independent controls for each mode, I would probably use more extreme settings for Vintage Hi overall.

That being said, I have found that live, it is often hard to tell the difference between Vintage Lo and Hi. I mean, the average person can't tell the difference between a tube amp and a transistor amp. The sort of nitpicky details we all complain about are much more audible on a recording. In the studio, you can dial in whatever tone you want so it is really a moot point.

 

[MBJunkie]

1. Yep, I agree....it is a mystery why it didn't work for Jeffp
2. Who is Cradlefish? I bought my Dyne brand new....not that it matters.
3. Great that the ED works for you in every situation....and yes, it is LOUD (without being able to control the volume very well IMO).
4. The idea of the ED (one channel, 3 footswitchable modes) is great! It just wasn't versatile enough for my needs.....that's all. Many others find it great for their needs.....no problem!
5. Your final comments illustrate how even you prefer different settings for each mode!
6. Jeffp (original poster) has already moved on to a different amp manufacturer. I just thought I'd throw in my .02 to say Hey....MB has many other great amps to offer if interested. Who knows.....maybe he isn't satisfied with his latest purchase. That certainly wouldn't be shocking to me.....that's all.

 

[J.J]

I'm always happy to hear an honest opinion it does help to understand other people and their choices.

Several people complain about all of The Mark V knobs and features (so called complexity), but in reality, the V offers incredible flexibility and dedicated controls of each channel with 3 very different mode options of each channel, power selections, etc... In my opinion, setting up my MkV is much easier to obtain what I am after because each channel has dedicated controls and all channels offer 3 very different and useful modes. Is there an initial learning curve?....yes, but not as much as one would think IMO.

Honestly, I think you would bond much better with the V than the ED based on your comments.

This is just my opinion, and I am not slamming the ED in any way (but will probably catch some heat with this reply). My motto.....everybody should go with whatever works best for their needs....period!!

I'd would have gone for an MKV if channel 3 could do the ED vintage lo/hi, but it can't. I really stuggled to find any tone I liked with channel 3. I still think ch3 sounds great with others playing, but it doesn't work for me.

As for my experiance with the ED, I am now using clean for about 50% of my playing and find that footswitching works well as long as I have taken a little care in setting up for the room. I do change settings a little from song to song, but I'd still be doing that with an MKV. I'm pretty fussy about my tone, just like most people who choose Mesa amps, but to my ears the ED sounds great with a wide range of settings. Other amps I own though only sound good to me with limited settings.

I agree with YJ about what he would like to be able to get the ED to do, that would be great. The RA seems to have most of those features, but after having a good go on one, I much prefer the ED.

Another thing I have noted is that speaker choice makes a big difference to the big picture. Initially I prefered an open back C90 with the ED. This gave me a stunning clean tone, but vintage low was almost mud. Since then I have found that a closed back V30 balances better and a V30/C90 combo works better again.

 

[YellowJacket]

1. Yep, I agree....it is a mystery why it didn't work for Jeffp

I'm serious though, the biggest problem with this amp is that the clean channel is always LOUD, especially at low volumes... The fact that it wasn't giving much clean signal at any volume is immediately suspicious in my mind.

2. Who is Cradlefish? I bought my Dyne brand new....not that it matters.

He's a member here. He got the Electra Dyne second hand and he never played it. He didn't like the dynamic and elastic feel of the clean channel.

3. Great that the ED works for you in every situation....and yes, it is LOUD (without being able to control the volume very well IMO).

The amp does what was designed to do. When I need high gain, I bust out the Recto...

4. The idea of the ED (one channel, 3 footswitchable modes) is great! It just wasn't versatile enough for my needs.....that's all. Many others find it great for their needs.....no problem!

You definitely did the right thing! If the Mark V did what I wanted, I probably would have acquired one instead. The level of tweakability and the options really sounds like my sort of thing. The option to run the thing at 10 watts is particularly attractive in my situation. It is a world class fantastic piece of gear. I just didn't gel with it!

5. Your final comments illustrate how even you prefer different settings for each mode!

Come on now, don't take my comments out of context. When I was gigging doing classic rock stuff this summer, my Godin LG was pretty much perfect for the band along with this amp. The amp is a blues / classic rock monster but if you try to do a high gain crunch tone on Vintage Hi you are left without a super saturated shredding lead sound. The amp simply gets too muddy at that level of gain, unless you run a 4 x 12 with v30s in it...

6. Jeffp (original poster) has already moved on to a different amp manufacturer. I just thought I'd throw in my .02 to say Hey....MB has many other great amps to offer if interested. Who knows.....maybe he isn't satisfied with his latest purchase. That certainly wouldn't be shocking to me.....that's all.[/quote]

Ya, acquiring a Marshall... I still stand by the Shiva suggestion. Jeff really liked the 'Dyne and Cradlefish said the Shiva was in the same ballpark. Apparently it is a MONSTER when you open it up!

 

[MBJunkie]

Great points by both YJ and J.J.

I do understand why some people prefer the mid/high gain sounds offered by the ED compared to the V. I liked them a lot as well from the ED, but I also like the mid/high gain tones that I can achieve from my V, and I love the clean tone options offered in Ch1 of the V!! :mrgreen:

One thing I can say, that I am sure all will agree......Isn't it nice that MB offers a wide range of excellent amplifiers to choose from?? All of them that I have ever owned have been incredibly reliable tone machines including the ED!! :mrgreen:

 

[YellowJacket]

Great points by both YJ and J.J.

I do understand why some people prefer the mid/high gain sounds offered by the ED compared to the V. I liked them a lot as well from the ED, but I also like the mid/high gain tones that I can achieve from my V, and I love the clean tone options offered in Ch1 of the V!! :mrgreen:

When I watched Don's video showing all the Mark V modes in Depth, I preferred Fat clean on Channel 1, Crunch mode on Channel 2, and Mark 2C+ far and away. When I tried the amp, the tones sounded far more similar than they did on the video. The low to mid gain options were pretty lifeless, which could be due to many reasons. Maybe it was the guitar or the cab? Could have been that I was in a guitar store and I couldn't crank it. It could be my ears and what things sound like to me in person.
When I heard Don's Recto to Mark V comparison, I definitely liked the Mark V tone he had dialed in better but I also think that is because I dial in a very different tone with a Recto than what I hear in most videos. (Crunchier and more defined with less gain and more mids)

One thing I can say, that I am sure all will agree......Isn't it nice that MB offers a wide range of excellent amplifiers to choose from?? All of them that I have ever owned have been incredibly reliable tone machines including the ED!! :mrgreen:

Agreed, but it would be nicer if we had more $$$s because sometimes one flavour of ice cream isn't enough!

 

[YellowJacket]

OK, so I had the Electra Dyne out for a couple of gigs this weekend. Sadly, someone else was using it (and I was playing my P-Bass through a Markbass SA450 and an Ashdown ABM210) but this brought up that clean vs Lo / Hi volume issue.

At GIG] levels we had the clean trim pot turned down past half way. With the clean trim pot set to bypass, the cleans were almost twice as loud as the crunch. This is a scientifically demonstrated fact. With the master around or below 9:00, any Electra Dyne where a bypassed clean mode is significantly quieter than the crunch modes has some sort of a tube problem or other defect.

 

[J.J]

Did you try a guitar with low output single coils or just humbuckers ? For the test to be conculsive that would need to be done.

 

[YellowJacket]

Hmmm. We had crappy humbuckers on a squire Strat for the show. Ya, a SQUIRE with stock pickups sounded awesome through the Electra Dyne. Amp truly has MOJO!

I have a coil tap on one of my guitars. Perhaps this would work? Single coil cleans are quite a bit more quiet than Humbuckers BUT you can always make up for less output with more gain. (Use gain for a traditional approach)
i.e. turn the volume up to 9:30 but leave the gain trim switch to normal instead of clean. This would give more gain on the clean mode which would probably help balance the channels more.

 

[elvis]

When I run single coils, the clean mode (clean volume set to BYPASS) is as loud as Vintage HI, and a little louder than Vintage LO. I have Volume set to 2:30, so the clean mode is not overdriven and the vintage channels have some drive.

When I run humbuckers, I have to set the gain trim to CLEAN so that the clean mode is not overdriven, and so that it's not louder than the Vintage modes.

When I coil tap and move back and forth between humbuckers and split coils, I usually set the gain trim to CLEAN and then add a bost in the FX loop to make up volume when I tap. I have alternatively run the gain trim off, and rolled off the guitar volume when running the humbucker. Both work fine. This would be necessary for any amp, as my humbuckers are MUCH louder than the split coils or single coils.

 

[jeffp]

This is where i had a problem. My clean mode was NEVER as loud as either vintage Lo, or Hi. Not even close. The bypass worked fine. I never needed to bypass. Couldn`t get that far. I still think it was a unit problem. But MB was so accustomed to telling their customers that`s how the bypass worked they really didn`t diagnose my specific problem. I think there was a communication breakdown between the dealer and MB. Thus no fix(that`s the way it`s designed) answer. I really loved the tone of that amp and still wonder if eventually they found the fault somewhere in the warranty returns. Jeffp

 

[YellowJacket]

Well, I still think the most appropriate 'fix' would be a separate volume and master for each mode.

JeffP, I DEFINITELY think it was a unit problem. At gig levels, the clean trim was set to less than a half. Otherwise, the clean totally overpowered the crunch channels.

 

[jeffp]

Could there possibly be a next generation ElectraDyne?

 

[elvis]

I highly doubt it. Mesa will steer people to the RA. Their stated position is that the RA is a Dyne with more flexibility.

Based on prior amps (not counting the early Mark amps, which were in constant development), the Dyne would have to run for a decade before it got any additional engineering.

 

[jeffp]

I had an RA. I can tell you from personal experience it`s not the same. The ED had the best voicing by far! I`ll play with my JVM while waiting. Jeffp

 

[elvis]

No argument from me. But that's what I understood from a conversation with customer service at Mesa.