attack response increase with treble on II C+

[IK]

Maybe someone has some input on this...
I recently noticed that the response of my amp (II C+) to my guitar increases/becomes more sensitive, tighter, etc. (which is a good thing) when i push the treble up around 8 or higher. Unfortunately, i can't really get a preferable/usable clean tone with the treble up that high. Why is this and is there a way to get that really sensitive/high tension string feel/sound without blasting the treble? Thanks.

 

[Elpelotero]

This is characteristic of all Mesas (and perhaps all guitar amps).

I don't know the "why," but I can explain to you how to think differently in regards to the tone controls. Each term reflects a different position of the tone control knob's sweep.

Treble=dark, attack, brightness, and some gain
Mids=stiffness, "feel of the guitar", liquid, creamy, clarity (in chords), scooped
Bass=muddy, boomy, tight, deep, fullness, etc...
Presence=brightness, clarity, shrill, ice pick, attack, chimey (on cleans)

 

[Soundstorm]

Try knocking Vol. 1 down a little bit. This will darken your clean some.


I run my treble pretty high, about 8.5 pulled. With Boogies, the gain controls are very interactive, especially with the treble knobs I've noticed. They even state this in the Mark IV manual. The Mark IIC+ feels similiar. So the mid and bass control's effectiveness are relative to how high/low the treble is set, giving you a much wider array of tonal versatility. This bugs a lot of people at first because it's much different from your standard EQ, but once you get accustomed to it you see the genius of the design.

 

[Boogiebabies]

Thank Leo Fender for the design. The Treble caps and control are the first filters your signal sees. You have to factor in the accuracy of the pot as well, but a higher treble allows more of the high end and signal to pass to the Bass and Mids. I don't find 8 to be extreme, but if you have a good cable and pickups it should not spin out of control. 6 to 7 should get you by, but the amp is clearly known to be bright by design which equates to it's perception of insane gain capabilities. This issue was also a common complaint that led to the 10pf mod and the 1000pf mod to allow you to run higher treble settings with a smoother, more balanced treble in the lead channel. It also darkens and fattens the clean tone. In some cases, the tone stack load would be shifted by placing a 100K resistor off the output of the treble to the input of the bass to lessen the effect of the treble circuit even in conjunction with the other two mods. In turn, the amp is smoothed out a bit and has a touch nicer blend of the bass response. These stock Mesa mods lead to a IIC+ with more of a MK IV type feel, but with a fast transient attack, which for some is the answer. For others, the stock all guns blazing circuit does just fine.

 

[IK]

So if i understand Soundstorm's post correctly, the mids and bass will have a higher(?), or at least different level of effectiveness the higher i keep my treble set? I really like the attack response the high treble gives me and it works great at bedroom levels but in the studio i haven't had the time to dial in the right eq combination yet. Also, i do find that i like/need some mids in my sound. I usually need/like it set at 5-7. In other words, scooped doesn't work for me. BTW--i'm running really bright single coils, which i know has to account for some of this. Thanks.

 

[Boogiebabies]

Try this. Turn all of your tone controls to 0. You will have no signal, hence the ones that are higher will have more effect on the signal. The mid's are virtually worthless at 10K on the amp. They just add a bit of color. I run mine at 5.

 

[phyrexia]

Treble frequencies travel faster and that can have some affect on how you actually hear the sounds.

I have contemplated just hard-wiring the mid knob to 4.5 on my amp and using the real-estate for a mod.