Wall voltage messing w/my tone?... request for comments...

[boogiemon]

At home i play quietly, as you might imagine and my LSC sounds wonderful most of the time. Occasionally when i turn it on i get a harsher more "sterile" tone out of it. I finally measured the wall current & noticed that when the voltage drops below 118 volts or so, my boogie exhibits this harsher tone. With the voltage up closer to 120, it sounds great, the way it should. Now here's where i need opinions:

i had a jam today in a rented space & before i plugged in, i measured the wall current & got 124 volts. Figuring this was close enough, i set up & plugged in. i noticed quickly that the clean channel had nowhere near the headroom i was expecting so i switched it over to 100 watts. This was ok for a while but as the band got louder, found that i needed to turn up to hear myself. At some point the clean channel was just not cutting through. The tone was dark w/too much midrange and i could not dial it out. The gain channel sounded ok but the clean channel sounded like mud. Any advice out there? My power tubes are pretty new still i think and the preamp tubes are also.

i'm running 6L6's and use a strat. The LSC is a 1x12 w/no effects in the signal path (effects loop switched off actually)

peace

 

[disassembled]

Sounds like the C90 is running out of room. You should consider adding a 112 or 212 when playing loud.

Greg

 

[Pablo1234]

you are talking about a 2% difference in Voltage, this is so minimal I do not believe it is affecting you headroom to the point you can tell the difference.

I do not believe it would make your tone darker if the voltage was up 4 volts or down 2 volts either. If you are dead set on getting something I would say get the Furman Line regulator, it works well and dose reduce line noise a bit.

 

[siggy14]

I second that motion, plus adding another speaker will make your amp a little louder. Get a 4x12 and it will have way more headroom and a little more louder.

Sounds like the C90 is running out of room. You should consider adding a 112 or 212 when playing loud.

Greg

 

[CoG]

i had a jam today in a rented space & before i plugged in, i measured the wall current & got 124 volts. Figuring this was close enough, i set up & plugged in. i noticed quickly that the clean channel had nowhere near the headroom i was expecting so i switched it over to 100 watts. This was ok for a while but as the band got louder, found that i needed to turn up to hear myself. At some point the clean channel was just not cutting through. The tone was dark w/too much midrange and i could not dial it out. The gain channel sounded ok but the clean channel sounded like mud. Any advice out there? My power tubes are pretty new still i think and the preamp tubes are also.

peace

okay, here's an outta-left-field suggestion... I have no idea about the voltage, but one reason why you find the tone of your amp changing over a gig/rehearsal/long period of playing w/headphones or at high volume is that your ears start losing the high treble frequencies after about 20-25 minutes. Seriously. Ask any engineer.

 

[Restless Rocks]

The more my bass player drinks the louder he gets then my drummer starts thrashing his cymbals harder and after a while I can't hear myself sing or play guitar. When I use the proper psychology to ask the bass player to turn down before we "burn" our ears my amp sounds great, we can hear the vocal monitors and it's just alot more fun. Somebody please tell me why you need a 700watt RMS bass amp to rehearse in a basement?

 

[CoG]

Somebody please tell me why you need a 700watt RMS bass amp to rehearse in a basement?

because your bass player wants to relocate your rehearsal space to the moon?

 

[boogiemon]

Thanks for all your input. i sent email off to Mesa and got this:



*************************
Greetings

Thanks for your email. Well, we are really not in-tune with what voltage regulators would be the best route to take. But yes, the amp sounds and performs the best when the amp is getting the proper voltage from the wall.

Thanks
************************
ok, what is the "supported" voltage range?


thnx,
************************
Greetings,
Typically anything between 90volts and 120volts will show the
best results. Voltages below 90volts will start to show some issues.
Thanks
************************
what about 125v or so?
************************
Not good for the amp.

************************
ok, last question:

what will the audible effects of over-voltage conditions sound like?
************************
The power tubes will break up at lower volumes and puts great strain on
the tubes as well as the power transformer.

************************

 

[Nick_cor]

also, you say you have great tone at home but as soon as you play in the band it doesn't cut through. Sometimes without the band there you can make this huge tone by cutting the mids , boosting the lows and highs but some people don't realize that in a band setting it'll do nothing but pollute the frequencies. Try dialing in your amp at practice.

 

[boogiemon]

also, you say you have great tone at home but as soon as you play in the band it doesn't cut through. Sometimes without the band there you can make this huge tone by cutting the mids , boosting the lows and highs but some people don't realize that in a band setting it'll do nothing but pollute the frequencies. Try dialing in your amp at practice.

i keep my mids in the middle...

 

[domct203]

If Mesa says 90-120V is good, then maybe it's not a voltage issue.

I know that there is only a 4 (or 5) amp fuse in your amp, but.....

What's the possibility of it being not enough available current (amperage) with that 700W bass rig opened up (+ other amps, PA gear, etc.)? Maybe the curcuit/supply can not handle it.

I know that Digital gear needs a good, stable Voltage, but the amperage demands are usually low. Would it be the opposite for a tube-based amp where ample reserves of current may be more important?

Dom

 

[Pablo1234]

If you are haveing a low current problem you will see it in the voltage.

I=V/R

so if the current is going low the voltage will drop as well.

 

[boogiemon]

i've got a voltage regulator on order so i'll let y'all know how it goes.

thnx

 

[boogiemon]

i've got a voltage regulator on order so i'll let y'all know how it goes.

thnx

Well, rusults are inconclusive. We had another jam at the same place, this time w/my new voltage regulator & my amp sounded much better, but i didn't actually measure the voltage comming out of the wall or the voltage regulator, so i don't know for sure that any "voltage regulating" was being performed. i had also replaced a noisy power tube sine the last jam, so that may have had some effect also.

Anyway, i figure that $100 (less if you look around) is not so much for a little protection for my boogie.

 

[TheSon]

Hey dude...

One thing to consider is that if your using a digital multimeter to measure the AC wall voltage, it does this by digital sampling and so you can find that the meter can be inconsistant from measure to measure by a small percentage ... it usually will say in the manual of the meter too e.g. AC volt range 0-400v +/- 5% ... less or more depending on meter quality.

The fluctuation in wall voltages happens to me here in UK where standard is considered to be 240v but I have seen anywhere from 220-245 in places, none of which were significant enough to affect sound of gear much.

I must be something to do with the gear itself for issues with headroom.

 

[JAZZGEAR]

I second that motion, plus adding another speaker will make your amp a little louder. Get a 4x12 and it will have way more headroom and a little more louder.

Sounds like the C90 is running out of room. You should consider adding a 112 or 212 when playing loud.

Greg

I don't believe either of those explanations are the cause....as I have the same issues with my new 2007 LSC head used with the 2x12 LSC cab. I describe the tone exactly just like the OP described it.....this happens erratically.

I also plug into a Furman Voltage Regulator (the newest model).

I'm thinking the tubes are the problem...and as soon as I get a chance I am retubing it with non-Mesa tubes

 

[boogiemon]

Hey dude...

One thing to consider is that if your using a digital multimeter to measure the AC wall voltage, it does this by digital sampling and so you can find that the meter can be inconsistant from measure to measure by a small percentage ... it usually will say in the manual of the meter too e.g. AC volt range 0-400v +/- 5% ... less or more depending on meter quality.

The fluctuation in wall voltages happens to me here in UK where standard is considered to be 240v but I have seen anywhere from 220-245 in places, none of which were significant enough to affect sound of gear much.

I must be something to do with the gear itself for issues with headroom.

My voltmeter actually fluctuates in 10ths as i'm measuring so it seems to be pretty real-time.


Also, since beginning this little investigation, i've noticed that when the washer or fridge at home kick in, i cah hear the cooling fan in the back of the boogie change speed.

 

[MetalMatt]

Could there be something wrong or off with the rectifier tubes, since they convert the power? If this sounds like nonsense ignore this

 

[boogiemon]

Could there be something wrong or off with the rectifier tubes, since they convert the power? If this sounds like nonsense ignore this

good point. i'm no electrician. i do usually run my mesa on the tube rectifier. This may make it more susceptible to voltage fluctuations. i hadn't considered that before. i'll switch to the ss rectifier for a while. thnx.

j

 

[JAZZGEAR]

Could there be something wrong or off with the rectifier tubes, since they convert the power? If this sounds like nonsense ignore this

good point. i'm no electrician. i do usually run my mesa on the tube rectifier. This may make it more susceptible to voltage fluctuations. i hadn't considered that before. i'll switch to the ss rectifier for a while. thnx.

j

Bingo....my LSC sounds much sweeter and consistent on the SS Rectifier vs. tube...except for the lead channel -- which I prefer on the tube rect.