Tone suck on an Express 5:50

[M67Chucker]

I was wondering if you experts could help me figure out what is tone sucking my amp so badly. I notice it the most on channel 2 in the burn mode. I love this amp, but I love my pedals too. Below is a pic of my pedal board. If any of you have any suggestions on which pedal is the problem or if the signal chain is the culprit I would greatly appreciate the help.

For info purposes I am running my pedals directly into the front input. My last attempt of bypassing the effects loop through the back with all the pedals left of the tube screamer had worse tone sucking results.

 

[Skully]

I run my Seymour Pickup Booster and Distortion in front with my Chorus and delay in the loop and my 5:50 screams! Isn't the compression redundent because distortion pedals already compress? I'm no expert though! What about the reverberator(?) the Express has sweet *** reverb, or is it a different effect?

 

[abe]

Try taking the pedals out of the chain one by one and see if the sound improves.

I assume that when you refer to "suck" it is loss of attack and maybe some of your amp gain.

I had the same problem with my rig and it turned out to be my Line 6 Verbzilla, which was running through the FX loop. Also, the Line 6 reverb had a switch that you hit if you wanted the reverb decay on the last note to continue after you shut if off. Engaging that option made the problem worse. I now live without reverb and I don't really miss it.

good luck

 

[M67Chucker]

I run my Seymour Pickup Booster and Distortion in front with my Chorus and delay in the loop and my 5:50 screams! Isn't the compression redundent because distortion pedals already compress? I'm no expert though! What about the reverberator(?) the Express has sweet *** reverb, or is it a different effect?

I had the reverberator on order before I bought the amp. It is a different effect compared to the built in reverb, but I honestly don't need it. The built in reverb does every thing I need. I will start with removing it from the chain. As far as the compressor goes when I use it is without distortion.

I will try arranging some of my pedals like yours are to see if it helps.

 

[M67Chucker]

Try taking the pedals out of the chain one by one and see if the sound improves.

I assume that when you refer to "suck" it is loss of attack and maybe some of your amp gain.

I had the same problem with my rig and it turned out to be my Line 6 Verbzilla, which was running through the FX loop. Also, the Line 6 reverb had a switch that you hit if you wanted the reverb decay on the last note to continue after you shut if off. Engaging that option made the problem worse. I now live without reverb and I don't really miss it.

good luck

By "suck" I do mean a loss of amp gain. I guess I will have to do it the hard way and go through each pedal.

 

[Skully]

Another thought, I run my distortion pedal only on my Clean channel so I end up with a 3 channel amp, Clean channel without pedal , Burn (love it for 80's Maiden) and then the Clean with the pedal for high gain stuff. I've noticed when switching back to the Burn and still having the pedal on it compresses so much and kills any kind of tone.

 

[Newysurfer]

I have a 5:50 and a pedal board (see below) and I have zero tone suck. By that I mean any loss of tone, volume or gain when a pedal is turned off as compared to removed from the chain. I've been careful to only choose pedals that are either true bypass or have great buffers (ie real bypass). The Dunlop on the left is a volume pedal.

Finding the culprit is a process of elimination Chucker. Could be a bad cable, but more likely the DS-1, CS-3 or the Line 6 Echo Park. All 3 pedals are well known tone suckers. Most Boss and Line6 pedals are. I've had Crybaby's before that didn't cause a problem, although the old one's weren't good. You'll need to take it all apart and test out each component.

 

[M67Chucker]

In my past experience, it was my Crybaby. I bought a true bypass mod kit and removed the buffer and fixed the problem right up.

Where can I purchase this mod?

 

[Don]

Patch cables can be a big problem. One bad patch cable can make everything sound dull and lifeless. A bunch of bad ones will kill your tone completely. You don't need expensive patch cable (there are some cheap ones that sound great), just not crappy ones.

Also, most of the pedals that you have there are notorious tone suckers when bypassed. One or two buffered, non hard bypassed pedals in your chain can actually be a good thing, a bunch of them can be very bad.

If you decide to use the amp's effects loop, don't run any of your overdrive or distortion pedals through it. They don't belong there.

I'd look into the patch cable first.

 

[soundchaser59]

I never get good sound unless I put the compressor first, but I'm not using a wah.

Also, that CS3 will improve night and day if you put the Monte Allums mod kit on it. Easy and affordable.

Distortion + Tube Screamer? I believe Allums has a mod for that DS1 also.

Try the echo park in the loop.

Nothing had more effect on my tone suckage than having the pedals in the wrong order. That's what I would experiment with first.

 

[cabowabo5150]

You guys just made my head spin :roll:

 

[M67Chucker]

I never get good sound unless I put the compressor first, but I'm not using a wah.

Also, that CS3 will improve night and day if you put the Monte Allums mod kit on it. Easy and affordable.

Distortion + Tube Screamer? I believe Allums has a mod for that DS1 also.

Try the echo park in the loop.

Nothing had more effect on my tone suckage than having the pedals in the wrong order. That's what I would experiment with first.

I just sent my CS3 in to have the Monte Allums mod completed. I am hoping that it will help with some of the issues. As far as the DS-1 is concerned I am pulling it off the board. I had it on there to experiment with different tones, but I like the TS-9 much better so it's going to go.

I do have a Skreddy Top Fuel on order though, would you put that in front of the compressor and treat it like a fuzz or after the Wah like an OD?

 

[Newysurfer]

If you look at the pic of my board again you'll see that the first row of pedals are all placed before the 5:50's preamp (ie plugged thru the front input). The 2nd row pedals are all in the loop. Mine is a standard setup which works great on the 5:50

guitar>wah>distortion>OD>tuner>volume>amp

Noise suppressor>Chorus> delay>EQ in loop