The Mark IV "Metallica mod"?

[MrT-Man]

Hey, I asked Petrucci last night whether his Mark IVs are modded! (this was right before a G3 concert). All he said was "I can't tell you that!"

I also asked him why he's using Mark IVs now instead of IIC+... he said it's because you can't get tubes for the IIC+ anymore (?!), and also that it's just a lot easier to use an amp that's still in production... if anything breaks down, Mesa can ship him a new one, etc.

 

[Boogiebabies]

He's pulling an EVH. This guy has between 12-15 IIC+'s and if anyone can get STR-415's, it's him. There are pictures of his IIC+'s with stock Mesa tubes and GT preamp tubes. As far as a modded MK IV, what is there to mod? I dig the guy's tone and talent, but the rock star treatment is just lame.

I have never had a IIC+ fail on me other than a microphonic preamp tube. Neither has my MK IV for that matter.

 

[Elpelotero]

This guy has between 12-15 IIC+'s and if anyone can get STR-415's, it's him

metallica has the rest...then we're left to fight for the scraps!

 

[Boogiebabies]

This guy has between 12-15 IIC+'s and if anyone can get STR-415's, it's him

metallica has the rest...then we're left to fight for the scraps!

No, there's some dude in Oregon who has 10 and another guy in San Diego that has quite a few. Then there's Todd/Mesie from Minnesota who went through 8 or so. Most of these amps are either horded or still simply unknown. Case in point, $ 1660 for a $ 4000 amp. That seller was living under a rock.

 

[Elpelotero]

This guy has between 12-15 IIC+'s and if anyone can get STR-415's, it's him

metallica has the rest...then we're left to fight for the scraps!

No, there's some dude in Oregon who has 10 and another guy in San Diego that has quite a few. Then there's Todd/Mesie from Minnesota who went through 8 or so. Most of these amps are either horded or still simply unknown. Case in point, $ 1660 for a $ 4000 amp. That seller was living under a rock.

I remember Todd! He's one of the reasons the market went so wild! I was so pissed at him b/c back then I would've been able to afford one if he wasn't driving the prices up so much with each sale. But I guess I would've done the same. I think he sold them all except one or two. I don't understand why anybody would want or need 10, especially if they aren't a professional.

 

[JOEY B.]

As far as spare C+ parts go, other than transformers, what parts in these amps are not available? From Boogie or otherwise.

 

[Russ]

Aren't the screened faceplates no longer available?

 

[eltrain858]

I don't understand why anybody would want or need 10, especially if they aren't a professional.

soak up the supply, drive up the price

 

[MrT-Man]

I don't get it. Why doesn't Mesa start making new IIC+? (or a Mark V that has a IIC+ channel... or whatever) Don't want to piss off people that have paid huge $$ for theirs?

 

[scottywompas]

I don't get it. Why doesn't Mesa start making new IIC+? (or a Mark V that has a IIC+ channel... or whatever) Don't want to piss off people that have paid huge $$ for theirs?

Mesa has always been about moving forward. Making a MkIIC+ is probably not in their best interest. Yes, a lot of people would like to buy one but I think they are looking to get young players and break some new ground.

I think they would make some cash on a IIc+reissue but they may make more just selling dual rec's to kids who don't know a MarkI from a Fender twin.

My. 02

Scott

 

[ytse_jam]

I don't get it. Why doesn't Mesa start making new IIC+? (or a Mark V that has a IIC+ channel... or whatever) Don't want to piss off people that have paid huge $$ for theirs?

Mesa has always been about moving forward. Making a MkIIC+ is probably not in their best interest. Yes, a lot of people would like to buy one but I think they are looking to get young players and break some new ground.

I think they would make some cash on a IIc+reissue but they may make more just selling dual rec's to kids who don't know a MarkI from a Fender twin.

My. 02

Scott

I think that if Mesa started making a MarkIIC+ re-issue, Randall Smith & Co would not be able not to do some mods to circuitry parts that now seems obsolete (who knows... maybe fx loop improvements, graphic eq changes...) and the new Mark IIC+ would never be EXACTLY the same as the original. And all these little details add that magic feel to the amp's tone as all we know.

 

[Boogiebabies]

There are almost no parts on the C+ that cannot be duplicated. It would not be cost effective today to duplicate it, but the pots are still made by CTS and I am certain that Schumacher can wind the transformers.
If Mesa were to use all the original components, tranformers, PCB's and production style they would be more expensive than the RK. The amount of hand wiring and soldering would push the base labor cost of the amp towards the PTP amps. When you cannot put everything on a wave solder machine and have to solder all the preamp, power amp and EQ amplifiers by hand it would not be profitable enough to make. In all earnesty, I think Mesa has found the original tone they were looking for in the C+ in the MK IV. The IIC, C+ and all the stripe versions of the MK III finally culminated into one of the greatest amps ever. The MK IV.
With it's recent surge in popularity, the Boogie community basically sealed the fate of a IIC+ reissue and probably delayed the interest in the MK V. To think that there has not been a MK series amp issued since 1991 is a testament to the MK IV. With sales booming it would be a pretty dumb business move to DC it. Look at the MK III sales since the IV was introduced. I have a 6/90 MK III in the 26800's and by 1998 when they were DC'ed they were only in the 28300's. As far as it's recent surge, it's obvious that most people have known about the IV for quite a while. Players have spent the last decade cycling through the crap and have come full circle back.

 

[igfraso]

With it's recent surge in popularity...

This is what puzzles me... the sudden surge in popularity for the Mark IV.

Maybe I don't recall it clearly but, when the Mark IV was issued, there were no 5-star reviews... maybe just a lukewarm review at Guitar Player.
I always thought that the Mark IV had not raised to the public expectations and, thus, it was not selling well.

To my surprise, these last years, I started realizing that it was carving a position on its own and becoming more and more popular.

Why do you think this happened? Too complicated and difficult to understand that it took some years for people to find the proper settings? Too heavy or too expensive? Too much hi-fi so it cuts through better in a band environment but difficult to grasp it at bedroom levels?

I thought there was no Mark V because the Mark IV was perceived a step backwards. But I see the popular perception is that there is no Mark V because the Mark IV is the "non plus ultra".
Regards

 

[rippingrudy]

There are almost no parts on the C+ that cannot be duplicated. It would not be cost effective today to duplicate it, but the pots are still made by CTS and I am certain that Schumacher can wind the transformers.
If Mesa were to use all the original components, tranformers, PCB's and production style they would be more expensive than the RK. The amount of hand wiring and soldering would push the base labor cost of the amp towards the PTP amps. When you cannot put everything on a wave solder machine and have to solder all the preamp, power amp and EQ amplifiers by hand it would not be profitable enough to make. In all earnesty, I think Mesa has found the original tone they were looking for in the C+ in the MK IV. The IIC, C+ and all the stripe versions of the MK III finally culminated into one of the greatest amps ever. The MK IV.
With it's recent surge in popularity, the Boogie community basically sealed the fate of a IIC+ reissue and probably delayed the interest in the MK V. To think that there has not been a MK series amp issued since 1991 is a testament to the MK IV. With sales booming it would be a pretty dumb business move to DC it. Look at the MK III sales since the IV was introduced. I have a 6/90 MK III in the 26800's and by 1998 when they were DC'ed they were only in the 28300's. As far as it's recent surge, it's obvious that most people have known about the IV for quite a while. Players have spent the last decade cycling through the crap and have come full circle back.

That is a great post!!

 

[Elpelotero]

This is what puzzles me... the sudden surge in popularity for the Mark IV.

Maybe I don't recall it clearly but, when the Mark IV was issued, there were no 5-star reviews... maybe just a lukewarm review at Guitar Player.
I always thought that the Mark IV had not raised to the public expectations and, thus, it was not selling well.

To my surprise, these last years, I started realizing that it was carving a position on its own and becoming more and more popular.

Why do you think this happened?

as BB said, people have come full circle.

In my somewhat related opinion, the age of the dual rectifier as the prominent rock amplifier is starting to fade. People are looking for the new thing and sadly, there's not much out there aside from your Diezels and Bogners...but we all know these amps were ripoffs of the crushing recto gain. The next alternative is the Mark4. It has all the flavor of Mesa that people love, but without that trademark Recto sound people have come to dislike. Plus, you can actually solo on the **** thing.

It is also worth noting that the Mark4 itself never caught on too well because of the rectifier. The rectifier cannibalized sales of the Mark4 and other Mesa amps.

In summary, the musical tastes are changing before us. Which manufacturer is going to set the stage for the next 10 years.....?

 

[Charlie]

Does the mod cause your two channels to argue and talk about feelings?

OMFG LOL

!!!

 

[igfraso]

As BB said, people have come full circle.

In my somewhat related opinion, the age of the dual rectifier as the prominent rock amplifier is starting to fade.
It is also worth noting that the Mark4 itself never caught on too well because of the rectifier. The rectifier cannibalized sales of the Mark4 and other Mesa amps.

Thank you, both. Now it makes absolute sense.
Regards

 

[Schmoog]

Personally. I was a huge fan of the mark IV since I first heard it (late 2002, and I only just started playing in early 2002). and in the years since found myself loving and loving the mark IV sound. then, I did something completely FOOLISH. Without EVER hearing one, or playing through one (including the one I got) I traded my stiletto deuce for a mark III blue stripe. now, the only thing I want about the IV is the seperate tone controls. I am personally perceiving the IV as a step backwards tonewise from the III, but foward in versatility. much like the III was a step backwards tonewise from the IIC+ (in some peoples opinions, ive played them and like the more raw, spikey tone of my III better). I think that a mark V hasn't been issued because of a couple reasons. the dual rec revolutionized rock tone and became a HUGE seller. the IV (which came out at the same time) didn't sell so hot, and didn't get anywhere near the press that the dual rec got, what with james and kirk playing dual recs and such. I think the guys at mesa sensed that things would eventually shift toward the meatier, tighter, really, better, sound of the mark IV, and that the IV would have it's day eventually. and that's why we haven't seen a IIC+ RI or a mark V

 

[Random Hero]

Personally. I was a huge fan of the mark IV since I first heard it (late 2002, and I only just started playing in early 2002). and in the years since found myself loving and loving the mark IV sound. then, I did something completely FOOLISH. Without EVER hearing one, or playing through one (including the one I got) I traded my stiletto deuce for a mark III blue stripe. now, the only thing I want about the IV is the seperate tone controls. I am personally perceiving the IV as a step backwards tonewise from the III, but foward in versatility. much like the III was a step backwards tonewise from the IIC+ (in some peoples opinions, ive played them and like the more raw, spikey tone of my III better). I think that a mark V hasn't been issued because of a couple reasons. the dual rec revolutionized rock tone and became a HUGE seller. the IV (which came out at the same time) didn't sell so hot, and didn't get anywhere near the press that the dual rec got, what with james and kirk playing dual recs and such. I think the guys at mesa sensed that things would eventually shift toward the meatier, tighter, really, better, sound of the mark IV, and that the IV would have it's day eventually. and that's why we haven't seen a IIC+ RI or a mark V

Kirk has a Rackto, but I don't know if James plays a Dual Rect as much as you would expect. I know he does in smallish shows (blackface Triple I believe), and he does when jamming in their Some Kind of Monster DVD, but didn't they use IIC+s, IIIs and IVs in the past, and then James spent alot of time using the Triaxis on the road, right?

They do seem to like using Rectos with green lights in them as stage props though.

I would check mJ's site, but I can never seem to get on it these days

 

[flieger67]

These are just thoughts from a guy who used to own a DC-5 and wants to own a Stiletto soon. I think at least part of the reason that there is no Mark V is that Mesa has such a large selection of amps at the moment. And some of the amps that are in the current line-up have been tweaked and re-worked which takes time, money and engineering effort - items which would be needed to design a Mk V. So the current line has a lot of offerings to try to entice a lot of different players instead of trying to direct a lot of players to a few different models. Correct me if I'm wrong, but back in the day of the original Mk IV, I don't think Mesa's catalog was nearly the size that it is now.

I would agree that there is some sonic stagnation in rock and metal these days and something is going to come along that will change tastes and start a new trend. The Rectifier is a classic and a landmark design, but it's about time for something new to appear on the horizon.