Suitable alternat for SED wing = c= ?

[bandit2013]

:shock:

Hot tube requires more plate current to provide the same distortion as a cold tube that has early onset.
Hot tube = late distortion, cold tube = early distortion. Cold tubes will make clean channel dirty at moderate volume where as the hot tube will have plenty of headroom before clipping. In other words, the hot tube has less gain than the cold tube as it requires more current or high volume settings to clip.

I honestly thought the EH EL34 were hot tubes since I really had to open up the amp to get any power tube clipping. Now they saturate at much lower volume settings. I was at a point where I was not going to buy any more Reflektor made tubes, Not any more. The TS7581 were great out of box but with burn in time, they suddenly had a tone shift and were easily over heated in the Mark V. Only the SED 6L6GC and the TAD6L6GC-str have not overheated the plates. The SED will glow at the seams under use with moderate to high volume but is barely noticeable. TAD never changed color (plates looked cold). 7581, Mesa STR440, Svetlana 6L6GC under the same conditions would generate a nice orange glow on the plate surface. This is all related to current flow heating the plate metal. The EH EL34 under operation will create a slight hue at the seam. JJ6CA7 also generated the hot spot similar to the 7581, but there was another phenomenon, incandescence of the grids which was seen on the mica spacer. Almost as bright as a small night light. Those were the only tubes that exhibited white light. JJ tubes would probably provide better service in an adjustable bias amp. This is all speculative since I have no empirical data to support my statements.

Considering how much I am enjoying the EH EL34, I will have to try the 6CA7 version. As for the combo Mark IV, I have grown to like the Svetlana 6L6GC. They sound close to the SED 6L6GC (hard to tell the difference with the single speaker combo). The Mark IV thought the 412, SED sounded the best, almost evil and sinister when distorted (in other words, holy-S). As for the Mark V, I may not go back to 6L6 tubes.

 

[knotts]

Just to update this with the information I just received from one of the SED distributors.

"Unfortunately, the word from the JSC Svetlana factory is that they will not be producing any glass tubes in 2014. At this point in time it seems highly unlikely that they will be making glass tubes again.

Thanks,

CE Distribution"

 

[swbo101]

Yep... I got the same EXACT email from a distributor this morning. Sad. I bought my last quad in early November. At the current prices now, out of my range. I just picked up a mixed quad(6L6/EL34) of new production Tung-Sols as future replacements when the time comes.

I wish I knew why they stopped?

I'm going to ask.

 

[bandit2013]

Poo. I was just getting ready to get a few sets. I was hoping to try the EL34 SEDs. I will have to check to see how much they went up and how they compare price wise to Gold Loin KT77.

 

[bandit2013]

the EL34 were lower in price at tubestore than in other places. 6L6GC, nearly $50 per tube. Ouch. Placed my order, thanks for the notice. :x pockets are empty now.

 

[swbo101]

the EL34 were lower in price at tubestore than in other places. 6L6GC, nearly $50 per tube. Ouch. Placed my order, thanks for the notice. :x pockets are empty now.

I believe they (EL34) are a couple of dollars cheaper at tube depot ($89.95 per pair), FWIW.

 

[bandit2013]

Upscale Audio had the best and lowest price on the SED's for a while. Now they are the highest price. I should have bought them before the bumped up the price.

Oh-well. Since they will be in limited quantities, I ordered a quad of 6L6 and EL34. Probably the last time I will buy SED's unless they begin producing again. I do not think it is an end of story for SED in the consumer market. Audio tubes are not their primary product, so it would not surprise me if is end of the line for tube production.

 

[swbo101]

bandit - when you get your =C= from the tube store, can you post the bias points they gave you? Based on the ones I got from tube depot, I can tell they are running low.

Thanks.

 

[bandit2013]

Hopefully they will be marked with something. I will post what is written on the box or tube if they label them. I will do it for both the EL-34 and 6L6GC.

I also ordered a new 5u4G, not that I need one right away but always good to have on hand.

 

[bandit2013]

I found a good deal on a matched quad of Gold lion KT77 new on Ebay. Not sure how well they will work but should be no different than EL-34, hopefully will out last the JJ6CA7. Those could have been a favorite if they lasted more than 2 weeks. 1 tube stoped working (wound come on then out at random). Two of the survivors blew up when I installed them in the Mark IV (outer sockets). They worked fine once before in the MKIV, just not a second time.

 

[bandit2013]

bandit - when you get your =C= from the tube store, can you post the bias points they gave you? Based on the ones I got from tube depot, I can tell they are running low.

Thanks.

The Quad of =C= EL34 were marked with 36mA plate current.
The Quad of =C= 6L6GC were marked with 17mA plate current.

I put the =C=EL34 in the RA100 since that arrived at the same time. I may try the TAD6L6GC-STR in the RA. I definitely have to hear the =C=EL34 in the Mark V. Also, the quad of KT77 should be here soon.

 

[swbo101]

bandit - when you get your =C= from the tube store, can you post the bias points they gave you? Based on the ones I got from tube depot, I can tell they are running low.

Thanks.

The Quad of =C= EL34 were marked with 36mA plate current.
The Quad of =C= 6L6GC were marked with 17mA plate current.

I put the =C=EL34 in the RA100 since that arrived at the same time. I may try the TAD6L6GC-STR in the RA. I definitely have to hear the =C=EL34 in the Mark V. Also, the quad of KT77 should be here soon.

Thanks.

That's interesting. From Tube Depot I always get 6L6's rated around 21 and EL34's around 28 (regardless of brand - for my Mark IV). My last batch (and most likely my very last batch) of =C= were 20 & 43 respectively. They told me that the 43's were the closest to middle rated they had left. I tried them out for several hours and they performed and sounded fine.

Again thanks for taking the time to update, much appreciated.

 

[bandit2013]

I tried the SED EL34 in the Mark V, not bad. They sounded much better in the RA100. The SED 6L6 had a rating of 17. I retired the TADs for the time being and put the SED 6L6 in the Mark V. A fresh quad of SED wing c 6L6GC are the best in the Mark V. TAD's come in close second. I did compare the old NOS GT6L6R-2 (original Svetlana tubes), almost identical in design with one exception, the getters on the NOS tubes have the round cup shape to them. The NEW SED tubes have flat rounded disks (not cupped). Still sound just as good. Not sure what the number 17 implies, if it is plate current, at what voltage was that plate current obtained. the number is meaningless without the other parameters.

 

[Markedman]

I bought a quad of 6l6 =C= from Antique Electronic Supply in the spring for my Mark III, they were 21.5 ma and sound incredible to my ears. I don't know anything about this stuff so I told them what amp I had and trusted them, seems to have worked out so far.

 

[bandit2013]

When I had bought tubes from Doug's tubes, you get all the parameters.
The Tube Store, the number listed is a bit misleading. Also how it was tested and verified matters. 17mA seems a bit low but the tubes sound awesome. The =c= EL34 did not impress me in the Mark V. The EH EL34 had more edge to them and a bit more bass. They sounded good but I expected the 6L6 complex harmonics typical with SED. I am glad that I bought both since the RA100 (bought used) was in dire need of new tubes and the =c= EL34 really sing in that amp! The RA could easily be my favorite amp, but is competing heavily with my Mark V and Mark IV. Three distinct and different amps.

Tubes will sound different in different amps, along with cabinets, etc...

 

[bandit2013]

One more note: I do like the SED 6L6GC, however, the ones I got sound slightly different than the NOS GT6L6R-2. I have grown fond of the TAD6L6GC-STR since it is similar in tone to the JJ6CA7 and the EH EL34's. In other words, less sparkle in the high end. It seems there is more headroom for gain and presence as well as treble control with the TAD than with the SED. I will have to wait until the Gold Lion KT77 arrive. (not really Gold Lion or Genalex, they are made by Reflektor/Sovtek). One important thing to note about the Current production SED =C=, the pins are much thicker than on the NOS tube. That is a bonus since the NOS tube fit was loose. So if you find some NOS groove tube gold series GT6L6R-2 some where, they are killer tube but will be loose in the socket.

 

[bandit2013]

I got the KT77 today in the mail. First impressions, Holy $#!*, I thought the JJ6CA7 sounded great (while they worked).
Plate current recorded on the box was 23.4. These tubes are very loud, found myself turning down the volume settings. Also there is not reduction when using 45w mode in channel 2. Note: I am running through the standard recto cab with EV's. Just for kicks, and since I now have a small 412 with V30's, the Mark V seemed a little thin but still sounded great.

Why not put them in the RA100? I tried them, something just not mixing well. Either the bias is much different than the Mark V, the Kt77 sounded super bright and lacking the low end. =c=EL34 sound the best in the RA100.
The tone of the KT77 in the Mark V is similar to the TAD6L6GC-STR. When I installed the kt77 in the RA100, I put the TAD in the Mark V. I like the KT77 over the TAD. Very interesting harmonic content. Too bad the KT77 are so damn expensive. I had to give them a try just to hear them for myself. If they last a while great. The Gold Lion KT77 (re-issue) is larger in diameter than an EL34, but not by much, size falls between el34 and 6L6. This tube is much darker than the JJ6CA7, and there is far more harmonic overtones. CH3 in mark iv mode, definitely gets compressed and sounds more like an EL34. In extreme mode, WOW. Pentode and triode worked great. (JJ6CA7 did not sound very good in triode)
CH1, I never thought it could sound better, it sounded incredible. CH2 mark 1 mode, sic (in a good way). I think I can enjoy that mode in CH2 more.

Hopefully these tubes will last for a while. I guess I will find out.

 

[bandit2013]

I revisited the KT77 in the RA100. They sound much better than they did the first time. Best to verify that the tubes get inserted properly. Sure the ceramic socket is keyed, but I found out that it appears the ceramic sockets (all 4) were modified by the previous owner or defect from the start. Ceramic was chipped out around the entire opening. I can install tubes in any orientation. I found this out why swapping the =C= with EH EL34 and discovered that two tubes did not have heaters glowing. Same may have happed with the KT77 the first time I tried them. It sounded awful and 1/20th the power I expected. I will have to mark where the key-way is on the socket so I do not instert tubes and cause damage to the amp or tubes. KT77 kick in the RA100 as well as they do in the Mark V.

 

[bandit2013]

Considering the KT77 Gold Lion (Genalex) are re-issue Reflektor/sovetek tubes, I will have to get the EH 6CA7 and compare. I do not believe they are the same tube since the EH6CA7 has round ports on the plates, KT77 has none. I looked at images on the JJ website, their KT77 is similar to the Gold Lion but different glass.

The tubes I got from Yen Audio on ebay were tested and matched 23.4mA plate current. These tubes are just insane in harmonic content. They sound awesome in all channels, 45W, 90W, did not try the 10W. I moved them from the Mark V to the RA100 for now. The =C= EL34 sounded great but one or more the tubes rattle in abundance so it is annoying. There is some tube noise with the KT77 in the RA but barely audible. The EH EL34 (now showing signs of EOL) rattle too.

Now I have too many tubes. So many choices. They all have their unique tone and character. I think I am becoming a TUBE junkie.

 

[swbo101]

I thought I’d post my findings on the new production Tung-Sols as compared to the SED =C=, as possible future replacements.
The EL-34 isn’t as bright or has as much definition as the =C=, but I wouldn’t say it was a dark sounding tube either. However, there’s a lot of that EL34 crunch. A very fair amount and contains the full amount of EL34 characteristics that are associated with that tube.
The 6L6 was very bright and would be at home in a Twin Reverb. It brought out single coil tones nicely out of a strat. The brightness worked well with the EL34 tones in SimulClass mode.
I paid around $75 for this mixed quad, so considering a mixed quad of =C= are more than double that, I can see myself using these when I’ve gone through all of my =C= in my closet.