Studio 22

[&drew]

I'm building by myself a 2 x 12 cab which I want to use with my modded Studio 22.
I have no idea about speakers.. I do play blues and rock, I love sweet clean sounds and overdrive saturations, not high gain. Anybody have advices about speakers to mount?

You're welcome.
Speakers are not my area but...my Studio .22 is open-back, loaded with a MESA 12" VS-12 Black Shadow 50w - which i understand to be a custom Celestion GT-12. (anyone like to correct me?)

This would make sense as Boogies are often used & sound great with Marshall 4x12 (i think usually Celestion loaded), even the Studio .22 sounds massive.

 

[Bob Anthony]

I'm building by myself a 2 x 12 cab which I want to use with my modded Studio 22.
I have no idea about speakers.. I do play blues and rock, I love sweet clean sounds and overdrive saturations, not high gain. Anybody have advices about speakers to mount?

You're welcome.
Speakers are not my area but...my Studio .22 is open-back, loaded with a MESA 12" VS-12 Black Shadow 50w - which i understand to be a custom Celestion GT-12. (anyone like to correct me?)

This would make sense as Boogies are often used & sound great with Marshall 4x12 (i think usually Celestion loaded), even the Studio .22 sounds massive.

I hate to correct people....but...the VS-12 actually is an Eminence. I found it to be a bit harsh-sounding, and put in an MC-90 which IS a Celestion and warms up the sound considerably. Also a Mes factory Black Shadow. It is made to handle more watts, so it doesn't break up as quickly, but sounds much better to these (battered) ears. EV also made a replacement, which I'm sure sounds better than anything, but it is more expensive and MUCH heavier. I am using the VS-12 in a cabinet along with my 22+, and it works well.

 

[&drew]

I'm building by myself a 2 x 12 cab which I want to use with my modded Studio 22.
I have no idea about speakers.. I do play blues and rock, I love sweet clean sounds and overdrive saturations, not high gain. Anybody have advices about speakers to mount?

You're welcome.
Speakers are not my area but...my Studio .22 is open-back, loaded with a MESA 12" VS-12 Black Shadow 50w - which i understand to be a custom Celestion GT-12. (anyone like to correct me?)

This would make sense as Boogies are often used & sound great with Marshall 4x12 (i think usually Celestion loaded), even the Studio .22 sounds massive.

I hate to correct people....but...the VS-12 actually is an Eminence. I found it to be a bit harsh-sounding, and put in an MC-90 which IS a Celestion and warms up the sound considerably. Also a Mes factory Black Shadow. It is made to handle more watts, so it doesn't break up as quickly, but sounds much better to these (battered) ears. EV also made a replacement, which I'm sure sounds better than anything, but it is more expensive and MUCH heavier. I am using the VS-12 in a cabinet along with my 22+, and it works well.

Thanks, always welcome.

So, from what you say, in a mid 1980's Caliber .22, the 50W VS-12 was an unmarked Eminence, rebranded with Black Shadow.
Was it a relabelled stock Eminence or re-spec'd custom made for MESA?

I see that my late 1990's MC-90 is labelled Black Shadow by Celestion International.

I'd be interested in seeing proof of which Black Shadows were Eminence, Celestion or other. I'll search this board too. Maybe someone has compiled a definitive list of eras, models and type used? Ideally with evidence of similar frequency response curves.

To hear the difference between the VS-12 & MC-90, I'll try and record some samples, running from the same amp.
If i do i'll post a link to Soundcloud.

 

[mxr2000]

Bump!

 

[artisan4]

So the Studio .22 was first offered in 1981? I seem to remember looking at one around that time but can't find any definite info on the time line.

 

[NunoVanBamSteen]

My Studio .22 has a date in purple marker from 1987. I haven't seen older, but haven't really been looking for it. I have to admit, I have yet to perform the mod. Bought a Mark V and was using that live, but my situation changed again and am planning on doing this mod soon (I think) makes so much more sense to me than fselling the old girl and buying a Bogner ATMA at triple the price. I will post pics and a sound clip if I gever get on it.

Also, retubed her last fall, tubes were sounding dark, fx loop sounded like crud, new JJs front to back and my baby is as bright as I want her to be and VERY responsive.
Maybe I buy a 1x12 boogie cab and use that live.

 

[Nomad]

Resurrecting this thread.

I picked up an excellent condition 22+ of which I replaced the filter caps and changed the speaker to a WGS G12C/S. For the filter caps I used a 47uf Nichion in place of the stock 30uf, just to let a little more bottom through.

I added the .022uf to the .001uf cap at C5 and there was no difference I could tell. I also tried the 270k resistor at R292 and the gain got higher not less? I tried the Lead Drive Mod and it didn't work.

Anyone got any pics of these mods, perhaps I did something wrong.

 

[himmelhund]

Mesa told me they didn't track individual serial numbers before the 90's - but my question to them in that case was in reference to Mark III.
My Studio .22 also has the "class A" thing written on it. Class A is kind of a relative thing, though.. most people these days don't operate their amps very "class A" at all, they want DISTORTION and are not interested in clean, so like I say: "Class A" = relative.
The Studio .22 is a great amp... just for grins I had the transformers in my early 80s model all replaced (kept the originals) with Mercury Mags trafos.. even had a choke installed (not necessary for a 22w amp, but I wanted to try it.
That amp is one of my favorites, I play it all the time. It kicks ***, beautiful silky cleans and endless sustain when cranked.. I love it. I have had this amp going on twenty years, don't even care about the fact that the lead mode is so unruly because I don't gig with it. I imagine at stage volumes the lead mode wouldn't even be a problem, but in the bedroom.. surprise!
Only thing that irritates me is the toggle switches on the dash... I would MUCH prefer rockers and a .22 + is really the way to go.

 

[himmelhund]

If you need more sustain, check your speakers!!!!
I can't say this enough.
Mass-produced amps (including mesas) always come with ceramic speakers, and mesas in particular are relatively stiff, designed to be cranked to deafness-inducing volume levels.
If you want sustain at a volume you can LISTEN to, put lower-watt speakers in your cab.
With a Studio .22 I wouldn't put anything stiffer than a 30w speaker in there, but these amps often came with a 90w celestion from the factory.
Also, at low-watts you don't want ceramic speakers, you want alnico for musicality.
People don't want to accept that SPEAKERS are at least one third of the sound - I personally would say one HALF the sound.
A good speaker can make a so-so amp come alive.
Transformers are another huge part - mesa trafos are pretty good. I would be very suspicious of a new fender amp, though.
Sorry if you are broke but speakers are extremely important. Before you start modding your amp, play it through some decent lower-watt speakers. You will be surprised and pleased.

 

[himmelhund]

I got rid of my eminence Black Shadow (it was a VS-12)
the celestions are better.
I still wouldn't use a stiff C-90 in a 22w amp. That speaker has a power capacity of 90w - it will be loafing at 22. You would have to crank the thing to get any sustain out of it.
People completely underestimate how important SPEAKERS are for your overall sound.

 

[himmelhund]

The VS-12 is an Eminence and IMHO sounds like crap.
The studio .22 is a LOW WATT AMP. Don't pair it with high-watt speakers, you are just pushing the amp real hard to get a decent sustain.
Give it good low-watt speakers (max 30 to 40 watts, 30 would probably be best) and I highly recommend Tone Tubbies.
Sorry if you can't afford them. I buy the best even if I have to SAVE MY MONEY or GO IN DEBT.
I hate listening to crap.
I definitely get the best tone out of any players I have heard lately.
Disclaimer: I play rock and roll clean to crunch. I am not into heavily distorted modern sounds. If you are I can't help you.
Also, there is a big difference between alnico and ceramic. For low-watt applications, alnico is generally better, or a combination of the two types.
Read up on this stuff before you go tweaking tubes and modifying.
There are three basic components: guitar, amp, speakers. The guitar and amp are each 30%, speakers are 50% of the sound. I do know how to do math.

 

[tonejam]

Let's chill out a little, and accept that good tone is a matter of opinion, not fact, before we go encouraging folks to spend up big.

IMO, the Eminence that comes stock with the Studio 22 is a good sounding speaker, certainly not crap.

I replaced mine with a Tone Tubby Red Alnico, and HATED it.

I currently have a Hi wattage (100 watt) Weber in it, and it sounds just fine.

 

[Nomad]

Let's chill out a little, and accept that good tone is a matter of opinion, not fact, before we go encouraging folks to spend up big.

IMO, the Eminence that comes stock with the Studio 22 is a good sounding speaker, certainly not crap.

I replaced mine with a Tone Tubby Red Alnico, and HATED it.

I currently have a Hi wattage (100 watt) Weber in it, and it sounds just fine.

Agreed the WGS speaker I installed is 75 watt speaker and works great, not saying a Greenback wouldn't work well also but wattage has nothing to do with sustain. Feedback has to do with sustain.


I like the stock speaker as well.

 

[Don]

I wasn't a fan of the stock speaker in my .22+. Not because of it's quality (it was a decent speaker) but I found the mods to be too strong. I put an Eminence Private Jack in mine and it improved the sound to my liking- less mids, more Marshall-like than Mesa Mark-like.

 

[Don]

Resurrecting this thread.

I picked up an excellent condition 22+ of which I replaced the filter caps and changed the speaker to a WGS G12C/S. For the filter caps I used a 47uf Nichion in place of the stock 30uf, just to let a little more bottom through.

I added the .022uf to the .001uf cap at C5 and there was no difference I could tell. I also tried the 270k resistor at R292 and the gain got higher not less? I tried the Lead Drive Mod and it didn't work.

Anyone got any pics of these mods, perhaps I did something wrong.

I don't have any pics of the Lead Drive mod in my amp and I have since sold it. Share pics of yours and maybe we can help sort it out. More people might respond if you start a new thread.

 

[Nomad]

Resurrecting this thread.

I picked up an excellent condition 22+ of which I replaced the filter caps and changed the speaker to a WGS G12C/S. For the filter caps I used a 47uf Nichion in place of the stock 30uf, just to let a little more bottom through.

I added the .022uf to the .001uf cap at C5 and there was no difference I could tell. I also tried the 270k resistor at R292 and the gain got higher not less? I tried the Lead Drive Mod and it didn't work.

Anyone got any pics of these mods, perhaps I did something wrong.

I don't have any pics of the Lead Drive mod in my amp and I have since sold it. Share pics of yours and maybe we can help sort it out. More people might respond if you start a new thread.

Well I shipped the little bugger to Mesa yesterday to get the mod. I will report back when I get it back. Also I shipped the combo cab to Mojotone to have it retolexed. I decided on their Carolina Blue Tolex and their Small Weave Cane grill. Im really liking the 22+ except for the lead channel and hopefully it will be tamed somewhat after the mod. I asked them to go through it and give her some love.

The clean channel with the gain on 7 and the master on 7 is a glorious sound with my Les Paul Special. Hit that with my OCD version 3 and it sounds amazing. Im hoping the Lead Drive Mod will give me two more good options. One with lead channel on its own and another slamming it with the OCD.

Can't wait to get it back!

 

[Nomad]

Resurrecting this thread.

I picked up an excellent condition 22+ of which I replaced the filter caps and changed the speaker to a WGS G12C/S. For the filter caps I used a 47uf Nichion in place of the stock 30uf, just to let a little more bottom through.

I added the .022uf to the .001uf cap at C5 and there was no difference I could tell. I also tried the 270k resistor at R292 and the gain got higher not less? I tried the Lead Drive Mod and it didn't work.

Anyone got any pics of these mods, perhaps I did something wrong.

I don't have any pics of the Lead Drive mod in my amp and I have since sold it. Share pics of yours and maybe we can help sort it out. More people might respond if you start a new thread.

OK after getting Mesa to do the mod I realize my mod was working I just didn't think it was. I will say the mod pretty much sucks, the channel is still like some kind of wide open thing though the mod does allow you to get a better volume balance. The mod I think I'd be looking for is turning that nasty lead channel with the bottom sucked out and the mids pushed hard into a second clean channel. I may explore this down the road if I can conjure up some cash to get it modded. I asked Mesa to do that and they wouldn't. I still love the amps and have no plans of getting rid of it any time soon. As it is I just use it with an OD pedal which works fine.

 

[Whoopysnorp]

My opinion on this is that the Studio .22's lead mode sounds frigging AWESOME with single coil pickups. My strat knock-off and my SG with P90s sound particularly good through this amp. Humbucking pickups, not so much. That produces a weird raspiness in the midrange that's difficult to describe. I don't know that I've ever played another amp that loved one type of pickup in particular and got along so poorly with others.

 

[frama78]

My opinion on this is that the Studio .22's lead mode sounds frigging AWESOME with single coil pickups. My strat knock-off and my SG with P90s sound particularly good through this amp. Humbucking pickups, not so much. That produces a weird raspiness in the midrange that's difficult to describe. I don't know that I've ever played another amp that loved one type of pickup in particular and got along so poorly with others.

Same here!

I love the lead mode on my 22+! To me, it sounds awesome with a Strat, when the EQ is swiched off. It´s that "almost-Dumble-Blues Sound" known by Mr. Mayer etc.

You really must pay attention to the bass&mid-knobs. In fact, when I play Humbuckers, these two are not above 1, or it will mudd it up.

When you engage the EQ, it´s way easier to get a good humbucker sound. It´s not that tight and modern as on the Mark V:25 which I traded for the 22+, but it gets somewhere into that territory. The engaged EQ reduces the Dynamics of the amp a little.

One question: does anybody know, if that Brown tolex was Standard or was it a cutom-order? Or maybe a aftermarked Job? I really love the tone and look of this one (cab & headshell are diy )

 

[Baritone]

Resurrecting this thread.

I picked up an excellent condition 22+ of which I replaced the filter caps and changed the speaker to a WGS G12C/S. For the filter caps I used a 47uf Nichion in place of the stock 30uf, just to let a little more bottom through.

I added the .022uf to the .001uf cap at C5 and there was no difference I could tell. I also tried the 270k resistor at R292 and the gain got higher not less? I tried the Lead Drive Mod and it didn't work.

Anyone got any pics of these mods, perhaps I did something wrong.

I don't have any pics of the Lead Drive mod in my amp and I have since sold it. Share pics of yours and maybe we can help sort it out. More people might respond if you start a new thread.

OK after getting Mesa to do the mod I realize my mod was working I just didn't think it was. I will say the mod pretty much sucks, the channel is still like some kind of wide open thing though the mod does allow you to get a better volume balance. The mod I think I'd be looking for is turning that nasty lead channel with the bottom sucked out and the mids pushed hard into a second clean channel. I may explore this down the road if I can conjure up some cash to get it modded. I asked Mesa to do that and they wouldn't. I still love the amps and have no plans of getting rid of it any time soon. As it is I just use it with an OD pedal which works fine.

You might want to try liftning one leg of c12, it changes to tone in the lead Chanel in the same Way as the fat switch on a mk IV. Basically, the tone stack is then identical in both modes. I play a les Paul, and I haven't even bothered to put a switch there. Someone said it makes it sound like a cranked fender and reduces the mid heaviness.