Rectoverb 25 Combo vs Roadster Combo

[screamingdaisy]

That's cool. Have you gotten it loud enough to comment, yet?

Yes. They sound like... rock and roll.

I think they sound great, but it's a totally different vibe. All crunch and no chug. I'd call the sound more aggressive and in your face. Far more upper midrange, far less lower midrange. The sound a little thin until they have some volume behind them, then the bottom fills in and they're pretty balanced in a Marshall sort of way. The lower gain channels sounded nice and classic, with the Greenbacks imparting their own character upon the crunch. The higher gain channels reminded me of old school thrash, very aggressive but lacking body.

For comparison, the V30 cab has more bottom and a brassy low midrange with a notch in the upper mids and a smoother overall response.

If I had a Road King, I'd use the V30s for rhythm since they're more laid back and leave more room for the vocals, then add in the Greenbacks for lead for a more in your face sound. I think they'll also be great for layering guitar tones as they both dominate a different part of the midrange.

One consideration though is that as the distortion is piled on they really start to fill up the vocal range. I can hear why they've fallen out of favour in modern music and the Recto 4x12 is such a popular cab for recording.

 

[screamingdaisy]

On a lighter note, it's been a long time since I've pushed a Recto up to 1:30 on the master. I miss that sound. I'm sure my neighbours are unhappy. They should be happy I was on half power. :lol:

 

[YellowJacket]

Oh... and after watching this (skip to 34:20 to get to the part where he actually plays);

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoxSb6Mvg8g

I'll be pickup up a set of EL34s.

Ya, the amp all of the sudden has balls, and bad attitude with those EL-34s.

The speaker capers sound interesting. I always used to dick around with different speaker combinations until I got fed up with it. Now I just work on my playing through a crappy practice amp. The nice equipment doesn't get nearly the attention it ought to. Maybe I'll start tone chasing again some day...

 

[screamingdaisy]

I always used to dick around with different speaker combinations until I got fed up with it.

That's why I generally stopped modding my gear back around 2008 or or 2009. I was fed up with constantly messing with things and I just wanted my **** to work.

I think modding works best when you already like something and just want to give it a gentle nudge, like swapping the V1 in a Recto or experimenting strings on a guitar.

Most of my attempts for dramatic change have been underwhelming.

 

[YellowJacket]

I always used to dick around with different speaker combinations until I got fed up with it.

That's why I generally stopped modding my gear back around 2008 or or 2009. I was fed up with constantly messing with things and I just wanted my **** to work.

I think modding works best when you already like something and just want to give it a gentle nudge, like swapping the V1 in a Recto or experimenting strings on a guitar.

Most of my attempts for dramatic change have been underwhelming.

Yes. I've had the absolute most luck with swapping pickups in guitar. *IF* you happen to get the right pickup for the guitar, the improvement can be substantial and sometimes quite astounding. If an instrument is resonant when unplugged and plays well, usually the right pickups will make for an excellent sounding piece.

As for amplifiers, the biggest problem is volume. Most high end amps sound great with a bit of volume and speaker excursion. But my frustration has been trying to find useable tones at low SPL because I'm usually practicing or playing in volume sensitive situations. After awhile I quit fighting with this and I just practice now on a crummy practice amp and work on my technique.

The other big issue for me was that the Recto just doesn't ever 'feel' right. I got by it by playing my Electra Dyne but playing heavier music, I started working with the Recto again and slammed into all the same problems. It just doesn't do what I need. No amount of pedals or pickups will really do that for me.

 

[afu]

I always used to dick around with different speaker combinations until I got fed up with it.

That's why I generally stopped modding my gear back around 2008 or or 2009. I was fed up with constantly messing with things and I just wanted my **** to work.

I think modding works best when you already like something and just want to give it a gentle nudge, like swapping the V1 in a Recto or experimenting strings on a guitar.

Most of my attempts for dramatic change have been underwhelming.

Yes. I've had the absolute most luck with swapping pickups in guitar. *IF* you happen to get the right pickup for the guitar, the improvement can be substantial and sometimes quite astounding. If an instrument is resonant when unplugged and plays well, usually the right pickups will make for an excellent sounding piece.

As for amplifiers, the biggest problem is volume. Most high end amps sound great with a bit of volume and speaker excursion. But my frustration has been trying to find useable tones at low SPL because I'm usually practicing or playing in volume sensitive situations. After awhile I quit fighting with this and I just practice now on a crummy practice amp and work on my technique.

The other big issue for me was that the Recto just doesn't ever 'feel' right. I got by it by playing my Electra Dyne but playing heavier music, I started working with the Recto again and slammed into all the same problems. It just doesn't do what I need. No amount of pedals or pickups will really do that for me.

As far as mods:

I change my pickup heights pretty often for different texture/feel. I like to customize my stuff, though I am about to just "set it and forget it" on everything. I think being open to what the equipment has to offer as it is experimented with is easier than trying to force an apple to be an orange.

As far as amps:

Those kinds of concerns are what have me looking at super-low watt amps. I don't particularly like EL84s and that seems to be the fashion (and the 6V6 Egnater I handled is built poorly). One exception is the Grandmeister 36, since it appears they actually built the amp around the tubes, instead of just popping an old circuit in it and it has SO MUCH packed into it, including the power soak.

The other one that caught my eye for low volume is the Valveking II 100 or 50 with 6L6. The power soak basically drops the extra juice over big, fat resistors to get it down to a level that won't shake the walls, kind of like the Royal Atlantic (which is on my radar, too). The VK has consumer grade parts, but I don't tour, it's priced accordingly for the parts, and the features are sweet.

Since those amps have loops, I can slave my DR into one and try that out. With direct out made for DAW, I can record more easily when my health allows. I'm messed up and in an electric wheelchair with braces/support on most of my joints. Next week, I find out if the disability I paid into for 20+ years is going to pay me back. If that finally comes through, I'm going to grab at least a small amp. I'll see if I can get good results from slaving. If it isn't satisfactory, I'm gonna get a Cab Clone for the DR. If either of you are interested, I'll make sure to update what I find.

 

[YellowJacket]

As far as mods:

I change my pickup heights pretty often for different texture/feel. I like to customize my stuff, though I am about to just "set it and forget it" on everything. I think being open to what the equipment has to offer as it is experimented with is easier than trying to force an apple to be an orange.

As far as amps:

Those kinds of concerns are what have me looking at super-low watt amps. I don't particularly like EL84s and that seems to be the fashion (and the 6V6 Egnater I handled is built poorly). One exception is the Grandmeister 36, since it appears they actually built the amp around the tubes, instead of just popping an old circuit in it and it has SO MUCH packed into it, including the power soak.

The other one that caught my eye for low volume is the Valveking II 100 or 50 with 6L6. The power soak basically drops the extra juice over big, fat resistors to get it down to a level that won't shake the walls, kind of like the Royal Atlantic (which is on my radar, too). The VK has consumer grade parts, but I don't tour, it's priced accordingly for the parts, and the features are sweet.

Since those amps have loops, I can slave my DR into one and try that out. With direct out made for DAW, I can record more easily when my health allows. I'm messed up and in an electric wheelchair with braces/support on most of my joints. Next week, I find out if the disability I paid into for 20+ years is going to pay me back. If that finally comes through, I'm going to grab at least a small amp. I'll see if I can get good results from slaving. If it isn't satisfactory, I'm gonna get a Cab Clone for the DR. If either of you are interested, I'll make sure to update what I find.

If you are in the market for a bigger piece of gear, look into the Torpedo Live. It should do what you want.

That really sucks about your health, I hope that all works out for you!!

 

[screamingdaisy]

I'll see if I can get good results from slaving. If it isn't satisfactory, I'm gonna get a Cab Clone for the DR. If either of you are interested, I'll make sure to update what I find.

I've had good results slaving off an attenuator.

Basically: Head -> Hotplate -> Line Out into second head effects return

As cool as it was I never made much use of it. Too complicated IMO and I try to avoid practicing with configurations I can't/won't gig with. I think the Torpedo and Freyette Power Station accomplish something similar, and in a more elegant fashion.

Past a certain point I'd recommend a modeller. I prefer software models as I don't think dedicated hardware units are worth it unless you're really invested into the concept (i.e., you plan on gigging them).

 

[screamingdaisy]

As for amplifiers, the biggest problem is volume. Most high end amps sound great with a bit of volume and speaker excursion. But my frustration has been trying to find useable tones at low SPL because I'm usually practicing or playing in volume sensitive situations. After awhile I quit fighting with this and I just practice now on a crummy practice amp and work on my technique.

I'd be cool if Mesa added an adjustable attenuator to the cab clone.

The other big issue for me was that the Recto just doesn't ever 'feel' right. I got by it by playing my Electra Dyne but playing heavier music, I started working with the Recto again and slammed into all the same problems. It just doesn't do what I need. No amount of pedals or pickups will really do that for me.

Sometimes you just have to admit defeat and move on. I fought the Mark V for years before I finally let go. And it's not that it wasn't good at what it did, just that wasn't as complimentary to my playing style. I had to adapt to the Mark V to get the best out of it, whereas with a Recto I just play.

The Electra Dyne is another amp that I can just play with. For me the two amps are like Yin and Yang... except rather than fire and water they're fire and more fire.

 

[afu]

If you are in the market for a bigger piece of gear, look into the Torpedo Live. It should do what you want.

That really sucks about your health, I hope that all works out for you!!

Thanks.

I just looked that up and it looks incredible. I think it's too much for me, though. I wouldn't use it to its potential.

I did find this while browsing the Torpedo: GCS-3 and it is a little more simple.

With a small amp, at least I have the option of just using the amp, which I would definitely do to a greater degree than recording or trying to make the Recto do tricks. I'm am really leaning toward a used Grandmeister 36 as an all-around solution. For being Chinese and (relatively) inexpensive, the build quality and features are great, as are the tones. The midi options are massive and would integrate into my setup. I already use midi switching on the Recto, so the GM36 could be part of a stereo rig, as well, if I wanted to go deaf.

 

[YellowJacket]

As for amplifiers, the biggest problem is volume. Most high end amps sound great with a bit of volume and speaker excursion. But my frustration has been trying to find useable tones at low SPL because I'm usually practicing or playing in volume sensitive situations. After awhile I quit fighting with this and I just practice now on a crummy practice amp and work on my technique.

I'd be cool if Mesa added an adjustable attenuator to the cab clone.

The other big issue for me was that the Recto just doesn't ever 'feel' right. I got by it by playing my Electra Dyne but playing heavier music, I started working with the Recto again and slammed into all the same problems. It just doesn't do what I need. No amount of pedals or pickups will really do that for me.

Sometimes you just have to admit defeat and move on. I fought the Mark V for years before I finally let go. And it's not that it wasn't good at what it did, just that wasn't as complimentary to my playing style. I had to adapt to the Mark V to get the best out of it, whereas with a Recto I just play.

The Electra Dyne is another amp that I can just play with. For me the two amps are like Yin and Yang... except rather than fire and water they're fire and more fire.

I agree. Sometimes it is time to get equipment that does what one needs. It's funny, I just click with a Mark V, even if I am not so keen on the tone. Well, I'm not keen on the recorded tone so much but I definitely love the result in person. It is so precise and it just feels 'right' for when I play heavier stuff. Another amp I get along with equally well is a RevV Generator 7 - 40. It has more of that mid growl and bark like a recto has, but it has a liquid lead sound that is different but comparable to that of the Mark V.
(I like this sort of a Mark V tone though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XxPKrt5i-M )

My biggest obstacle right now is financial. I need to be getting music making tools that I need and my Recto quibbles are arguably minute compared to the need for other equipment. I could only justify a straight trade right now and the used market is terrible enough that it is just not worth it. I've been getting by because my friend misses his Recto so he traded me for the Mark V for fun and to kill GAS.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I think the biggest thing that discourages me from putting any effort into recording is that I can't afford to do it the way I want to do it.

Every once in awhile I get the bug and I advance my recording collection a bit, but then I look at the cost of a decent interface and I balk at the price.

 

[YellowJacket]

I think the biggest thing that discourages me from putting any effort into recording is that I can't afford to do it the way I want to do it.

Every once in awhile I get the bug and I advance my recording collection a bit, but then I look at the cost of a decent interface and I balk at the price.

Ya, recording equipment is a terrible money pit.

Most of what I'm doing is using digital instruments and sound libraries with minimal recording. (Multimedia film / videogame music composition) It's funny that it's easier to swallow a $2,000 price tag for a good guitar amp than it is for a decent mic.

The Torpedo Live for me will be a recording investment in lieu of guitar and bass sound libraries. With a young family, silent recording will be a huge boon. I just need to learn more about mixing now!

 

[screamingdaisy]

Torpedo Live

I need to look into these. I've seen them mentioned a lot since coming back online earlier this year but haven't really researched them yet.

My "thing" is I want to be able to put two mics on the cab and one in the room.... so right off the hop I'm into a 3 or 4 channel interface. Bass I've been DI and using software models. Drums I've been programming and using samples, but I want an electronic set since programming is a pain in the dick, particularly when I like to swing the beat to create a different groove.

All of it adds up to more money....


On the didn't cost me a cent side of things, I sacrificed an old Duncan '59 I had lying around for it's A5 magnet and stuck that in my LP's bridge Burstbucker 2. Tightened it up considerably and made things sound clearer. Good for rhythm. Surprised me because in the past I've disliked every A5 pickup I've tried. The trade off is that it no longer has it's softer, more vintage singing lead sound. A5 made it more articulate, but kind of bland.

 

[YellowJacket]

Torpedo Live

I need to look into these. I've seen them mentioned a lot since coming back online earlier this year but haven't really researched them yet.

My "thing" is I want to be able to put two mics on the cab and one in the room.... so right off the hop I'm into a 3 or 4 channel interface. Bass I've been DI and using software models. Drums I've been programming and using samples, but I want an electronic set since programming is a pain in the dick, particularly when I like to swing the beat to create a different groove.

All of it adds up to more money....

I hear you. Triple Micing a cab is a lot more resource intensive and it makes the price of admission climb.

Sequencing certainly takes a lot of work and it is challenging at first. Playing with velocities helps as does figuring out how to create midi events with the proper placement to create 'feel'. Otherwise, it can sound really wooden.

On the didn't cost me a cent side of things, I sacrificed an old Duncan '59 I had lying around for it's A5 magnet and stuck that in my LP's bridge Burstbucker 2. Tightened it up considerably and made things sound clearer. Good for rhythm. Surprised me because in the past I've disliked every A5 pickup I've tried. The trade off is that it no longer has it's softer, more vintage singing lead sound. A5 made it more articulate, but kind of bland.

Interesting.
Generally, magnets aren't only responsible for tone but there are other factors that influence the result as well.

I would say that the Bare Knuckle Rebel Yell and Alnico Nailbomb bridge pickups definitely aren't bland. That being said, the A-Bomb isn't quite as good on leads while the Rebel Yell is better.

The Seymour Duncan Custom Custom had this crazy thick lead tone that was only really matched by the Bare Knuckle Juggernaut Bridge pickup. Interestingly enough, that pickup is an Alnico V / Ceramic hybrid but something about the wind yields a darker and more low mid focused pickup which really gets thick and juicy on higher, single note lines.

In your case, I is perhaps frequency response due to wire guage and winding style that - in addition - contributes to tone along with the magnet selection.

Perhaps you should try some Alnico IV magnets. I can't help but think a mule neck and abraxas bridge might be your speed =-p

 

[Given To Fly]

If you are in the market for a bigger piece of gear, look into the Torpedo Live. It should do what you want.

That really sucks about your health, I hope that all works out for you!!

Thanks.

I just looked that up and it looks incredible. I think it's too much for me, though. I wouldn't use it to its potential.

I did find this while browsing the Torpedo: GCS-3 and it is a little more simple.

With a small amp, at least I have the option of just using the amp, which I would definitely do to a greater degree than recording or trying to make the Recto do tricks. I'm am really leaning toward a used Grandmeister 36 as an all-around solution. For being Chinese and (relatively) inexpensive, the build quality and features are great, as are the tones. The midi options are massive and would integrate into my setup. I already use midi switching on the Recto, so the GM36 could be part of a stereo rig, as well, if I wanted to go deaf.

I realize this is not a small amp, but have you considered the Mesa/Boogie Rectifier Recording Preamp? Based off your research on your own amp, I think you would like the Recording Preamp.

 

[afu]

I realize this is not a small amp, but have you considered the Mesa/Boogie Rectifier Recording Preamp? Based off your research on your own amp, I think you would like the Recording Preamp.

I bet I would love it.

I just want to do demos. Most of my recording setup is actually geared to electronic music of any type or backing tracks, but I have a handful of things specifically for guitar. The newer, low wattage, amps with speaker emulations, would be good enough to cover all the basic needs.


In regards to pickups: Maybe with the Burstbucker, only swap one magnet. Duncan does that with their "Custom Custom" pickup. One coil is A2, the other A5. I think the C.C. is over-wound, so the results would be different, but that might be an option for you. I noticed before that A5 is used on a lot of hot pickups and A2 is used on a lot of vintage to medium output ranges. Perhaps only using A5 on the slightly hotter coil in the BB2 would work better?

 

[screamingdaisy]

Interesting.
Generally, magnets aren't only responsible for tone but there are other factors that influence the result as well.

I would say that the Bare Knuckle Rebel Yell and Alnico Nailbomb bridge pickups definitely aren't bland. That being said, the A-Bomb isn't quite as good on leads while the Rebel Yell is better.

The Seymour Duncan Custom Custom had this crazy thick lead tone that was only really matched by the Bare Knuckle Juggernaut Bridge pickup. Interestingly enough, that pickup is an Alnico V / Ceramic hybrid but something about the wind yields a darker and more low mid focused pickup which really gets thick and juicy on higher, single note lines.

In your case, I is perhaps frequency response due to wire guage and winding style that - in addition - contributes to tone along with the magnet selection.

Perhaps you should try some Alnico IV magnets. I can't help but think a mule neck and abraxas bridge might be your speed =-p

For now I'm going to focus on options that are cheap. I'm going to rig the LP with a harness so I can swap pickups without soldering and start rotating stuff through. I have a JB that I've traditionally hated, but I also traditionally disliked A5 so now I'm curious. I've also read about a JB2 (JB w/ A2), which is apparently a somewhat popular in their custom shop.

Having the McCarty loaded with traditional output pickups has freed me up some to experiment with higher output in the LP. I might order a Duncan Custom since it's a popular rock pickup for Les Pauls, and I can easily convert it to a CC or C5 using the magnets I already have and get a feel for the different options.

BKP at this point is the high dollar option, and I don't want to commit until I have a better idea what I want. At this point asking Tim for a recommendation seems like a waste since I wouldn't even know what to tell him anymore.

 

[screamingdaisy]

In regards to pickups: Maybe with the Burstbucker, only swap one magnet. Duncan does that with their "Custom Custom" pickup. One coil is A2, the other A5. I think the C.C. is over-wound, so the results would be different, but that might be an option for you. I noticed before that A5 is used on a lot of hot pickups and A2 is used on a lot of vintage to medium output ranges. Perhaps only using A5 on the slightly hotter coil in the BB2 would work better?

Humbuckers are (typically) a single magnet at the base of and in between the two coils. There's only one magnet to swap. As I understand it, the Custom, CC and C5 are all the same coils with a different magnet (ceramic, A2 & A5 respectively).

I'm not sure how the hybrid pickups work, but I imagine that if they're using two magnets they're both half size.

 

[afu]

duuuuuuuhhhhhrrrrrr. Ok, I'm back to normal. My mind is slippery and falls out once in awhile. Then I have to remove the dirt, crumbs, and hair before using it again. Must have missed a speck.

Back to the topic, how's the stereo rig going? Find anything new? Blow anything up?

For fun, I once ran an effects line from the Recto out of the Nova System and into the front of my old 1960s Harmony H400, with the original 8" Jensen. I was playing lower gain things and it was really fun and novel. It definitely went sideways into some acid-drenched washes of sound that night.