Rectoverb 25 Combo vs Roadster Combo

[YellowJacket]

You traded away the Mark V? =-(

Also, that is a gorgeous guitar. I almost bought a PRS when I was shopping for my #1 but When ABing a bunch of instruments, I always came back to the Les Paul I currently own. It was just rounder sounding with more of a roar in the mids that I liked!

Side note: PRS pickups are great. The only pickups I have personally tried that can outdo them are Bare Knuckle pickups. Even more string to string clarity with a deliciously complex timbre.

 

[screamingdaisy]

PRS are GREAT guitars. What pickups does that one have?

I'll tell you first hand, the newer PRS pickups are serious high end killer pickups (like the guitars always have been!). I have an EBMM JP12 BFR, and it is a great guitar, but the pickups don't compare to any of my three newest PRS guitars. The PRS pickups are like comparing a real high end stereo to a regular home stereo. Just more clear, detailed and transparent. And yes, even with high gain beast amps.

Congrats!

I has 58/15s.

Hi-Fi is a good way of describing it. Compared to what I'm used to they come across as fairly dark, almost like a cocked wah at times. But, when I play chords every individual string is audible. For riffing they pack some impressive midrange grunt - almost brassy sounding - that really makes the D, G, and B strings stand out against the root, and the top end harmonics are clearer and more detailed. It's like every string is equally weighted and no one frequency is over/underemphasized.

Interestingly, levels of gain I normally consider unusable are now actually pretty clear (still hella distorted, but not mushy or fizzy). Out of curiosity I pegged the gain at 10 (vintage) and it was still usable... the buzzy distortion gets a little thin for my tastes, but just the fact that I can go that high is impressive.

The trade off is the top end bite. The guitar is dark and smooth without a lot of edge or sizzle. This suits me fine.

I see why it's common for people to compare these to a Les Paul, and that was my initial reaction too, but the more I play it the more I realize they're nothing like each other.... and that's a good thing.

 

[screamingdaisy]

You traded away the Mark V? =-(

Also, that is a gorgeous guitar. I almost bought a PRS when I was shopping for my #1 but When ABing a bunch of instruments, I always came back to the Les Paul I currently own. It was just rounder sounding with more of a roar in the mids that I liked!

Side note: PRS pickups are great. The only pickups I have personally tried that can outdo them are Bare Knuckle pickups. Even more string to string clarity with a deliciously complex timbre.

I've got the opposite going on; my Les Paul is ragged and wild while the PRS is smooth and refined. I'm pretty happy with the pairing. I love the Les Paul, but it's like driving an old Studebaker; doesn't like going fast, takes corners wide, blows blue smoke everywhere and needs three city blocks to come to a full stop... but it has a sound that causes peoples heads to turn and as rough as the ride is you know you're arriving in style.

On the other hand, sometimes you just want to get from A to B as fast as possible and without the wild ride, the joy of cold starting a corroborated engine, or needing to stop for gas at every other gas station.

 

[bandit2013]

Not a bad instrument, actually looks very nice. If the instrument fits you, feels great in your hands and provides you the tone and character that complements your playing style is the most important aspect of any instrument. For me it has been a long while that I ever felt comfortable with other instruments than what I have become accustomed too. I may end up some day owning a different brand of guitar other than Carvin, but have been quite pleased with everything about them it would be hard to change. The exception would be the bass guitars and my 12 string acoustic.

I could not bond with my Mark V at all. Yes the guitar and electronics does make a difference as the amp is sensitive to the higher frequencies. Most of the time I could not achieve anything but an ear ache due to the abundance of ice pick even with the treble, presence set to lowest setting on CH2 or CH3. Tried every thing from tubes, different pickups, and converting to a combo. No matter what I tried my tolerance for the amp was short compared to the many hours of joy I get from the Roadster or RA100 (head or combo). Never thought on change of impedance with a 40 ft cable. That makes more sense to me as I do understand the reactive impedance with transmission lines (capacitive and inductive). What really changed all of that for me was change in driver format. With an Alnico driver in the combo, the more I play though it the more I like it. This has been the first time since I ever noticed in improvement in touch sensitivity with this amp. Before the change, I had often thought that I would not miss the Mark V if I sold it, but that has changed to a "yes I would miss it" opinion.

I can respect your differences, and I am not offended by you getting a PRS guitar, (should I be?) it is a tool for creativity as is the amp you plug into. It does not matter if you boost or buck the amp, or if one decided to ditch it all for a single string on a stick nailed to a metal milk bucket. Everyone's taste will change over time and we move on to different things, sounds, instruments, tone, and whatever it is that makes a guitarist a guitarist. All that maters is how you feel in the end of the day, did you enjoy it or hate it. I would rather spend my time having fun just playing what ever it is and not waist it trying to chase down a tone or dial in the amp. For a while there I was considering learning how to sing and play the "I can't get no.... satisfaction" (I may still do that just for fun and not out of satire).

 

[Dreamtheaterrules]

The only thing I find curious, is your finding the 58/15s to be dark. I know it's all perspective, and I see you play a Tele, but there are lots of guys in the PRS forums who own the 58/15 pickups, and I've never heard one of them say they were dark. Some are even taking the pickup covers off to make them less bright.

Glad you're digging it though.

 

[screamingdaisy]

The only thing I find curious, is your finding the 58/15s to be dark. I know it's all perspective, and I see you play a Tele, but there are lots of guys in the PRS forums who own the 58/15 pickups, and I've never heard one of them say they were dark. Some are even taking the pickup covers off to make them less bright.

Glad you're digging it though.

I suspect it's all relative.

From what I understand, PRS pickups have typically been known for being dark and muddy. To someone who's used to that kind of sound the 58/15 probably sound brighter and more open.

I'm used to Burstbuckers (1 & 2), which are known for being bright. My Tele has overwound pickups and is actually not as bright as my Les Paul. If you listen to old classic rock where the Les Pauls had some serious twang, that's exactly what this guitar sounds like. Think John Fogerty.

Unfortunately I don't have a strong frame of reference here as I've only ever played two PRS plugged in. The first was a Custom 22 Semi-Hollow with a bridge pickup that sounded like a cocked wah rocked back on it's heel. The sound was so distracting I had to unplug the guitar just so I could play it and get a feel for it. The second is the McCarty I currently own, which to me sounds dark, kind of like a cocked wah but not as extreme as the Cu22 I tried.


For what it's worth, I really like the pickups in the McCarty. That rolled off top end is producing some serious midrange grunt and the reduced top end sizzle is producing some amazing clarity. I've been resisting changing the pickups in my Les Paul because they do such a great job of producing the classic Les Paul sound, but then fighting with it when I try to play more modern music... only I never really realized how much I was fighting until plugging in the McCarty and realizing how easy it could be.

I'm thinking a set of BKP Black Dogs, Mules, or maybe Abraxas may be my my LPs future.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I could not bond with my Mark V at all. Yes the guitar and electronics does make a difference as the amp is sensitive to the higher frequencies. Most of the time I could not achieve anything but an ear ache due to the abundance of ice pick even with the treble, presence set to lowest setting on CH2 or CH3. Tried every thing from tubes, different pickups, and converting to a combo. No matter what I tried my tolerance for the amp was short compared to the many hours of joy I get from the Roadster or RA100 (head or combo). Never thought on change of impedance with a 40 ft cable. That makes more sense to me as I do understand the reactive impedance with transmission lines (capacitive and inductive). What really changed all of that for me was change in driver format. With an Alnico driver in the combo, the more I play though it the more I like it. This has been the first time since I ever noticed in improvement in touch sensitivity with this amp. Before the change, I had often thought that I would not miss the Mark V if I sold it, but that has changed to a "yes I would miss it" opinion.

I liked (and still like) the Mark V. I just felt that it pulled me into a certain playing style. I'm actually kind of curious to hear how it'd sound with this McCarty, but that's not really in the cards right now.

On that note, while the McCarty and Recto sound great together this guitar has turned my ED into a little monster. The darker sound and mid push is making for some seriously raunchy guitar tones. With the Les Paul this amp always had a little bit too much top and bottom end, and dialling either back gutted the sound so I just dealt with it.

I thought I'd learned a lot over the last however long this thread and experimentation were going on, but this PRS just took me to school and the lessons it taught me are a definite game changer for me.

 

[Dreamtheaterrules]

I hear ya. It's all relative. To be honest, my first thought was that maybe something was wrong with them, when you said that. After reading about them from multiple owners at the PRS forum, I've never heard them called dark, or described has having a rolled off top. I'm anxious to try them though because there is a LOT of love for those pickups right now at the PRS forum (as well as the 85/15s which are identical but uncovered. But it's all relative to what you are used too, and what you are using it with. I remember one time having a pedal for about 3 years, and going through 3 amps, and two speaker changes. Over those changes, my opinions of that pedal (and comments about it in the forums) changed along with the other gear changes. Always liked it, but with some of those setups it was great, with others very good, etc. Heck, with pickups, sometimes a few turns of a screwdriver makes them sound very different. With a used one... could have been "adjusted."

FWIW, it's the old model PRS pickups that are known for being fat and darker. I have an HFS in my old one, and while it's very good, I LOVE the pickups in all three of my newer ones. Much more transparent, and much more balanced. In fact, that older Custom 22 with the HFS works GREAT with my Mini Rec. My newer ones have 57/08s, 59/09s and NFs all of which are incredible pickups.

I think you've got a KILLER guitar there. There are some guys at the PRS forum who have ridiculous amounts of high end guitars and lots of high end pickups, and saying that 58/15s and 85/15s are the best pickups they've ever heard. Congrats in a great guitar!

 

[YellowJacket]

You traded away the Mark V? =-(

Also, that is a gorgeous guitar. I almost bought a PRS when I was shopping for my #1 but When ABing a bunch of instruments, I always came back to the Les Paul I currently own. It was just rounder sounding with more of a roar in the mids that I liked!

Side note: PRS pickups are great. The only pickups I have personally tried that can outdo them are Bare Knuckle pickups. Even more string to string clarity with a deliciously complex timbre.

I've got the opposite going on; my Les Paul is ragged and wild while the PRS is smooth and refined. I'm pretty happy with the pairing. I love the Les Paul, but it's like driving an old Studebaker; doesn't like going fast, takes corners wide, blows blue smoke everywhere and needs three city blocks to come to a full stop... but it has a sound that causes peoples heads to turn and as rough as the ride is you know you're arriving in style.

On the other hand, sometimes you just want to get from A to B as fast as possible and without the wild ride, the joy of cold starting a corroborated engine, or needing to stop for gas at every other gas station.

PRS guitars are definitely pretty looking and refined sounding. They're great instruments and the fit and finish is top notch. I'd agree that a LP is more raw and pissed off. I just liked the round, mid focused ROAR vs the crunchy, defined PRS tone. Although, I'd probably like a PRS now if I tried one.

The only thing I find curious, is your finding the 58/15s to be dark. I know it's all perspective, and I see you play a Tele, but there are lots of guys in the PRS forums who own the 58/15 pickups, and I've never heard one of them say they were dark. Some are even taking the pickup covers off to make them less bright.

Glad you're digging it though.

I suspect it's all relative.

From what I understand, PRS pickups have typically been known for being dark and muddy. To someone who's used to that kind of sound the 58/15 probably sound brighter and more open.

I'm used to Burstbuckers (1 & 2), which are known for being bright. My Tele has overwound pickups and is actually not as bright as my Les Paul. If you listen to old classic rock where the Les Pauls had some serious twang, that's exactly what this guitar sounds like. Think John Fogerty.

Unfortunately I don't have a strong frame of reference here as I've only ever played two PRS plugged in. The first was a Custom 22 Semi-Hollow with a bridge pickup that sounded like a cocked wah rocked back on it's heel. The sound was so distracting I had to unplug the guitar just so I could play it and get a feel for it. The second is the McCarty I currently own, which to me sounds dark, kind of like a cocked wah but not as extreme as the Cu22 I tried.


For what it's worth, I really like the pickups in the McCarty. That rolled off top end is producing some serious midrange grunt and the reduced top end sizzle is producing some amazing clarity. I've been resisting changing the pickups in my Les Paul because they do such a great job of producing the classic Les Paul sound, but then fighting with it when I try to play more modern music... only I never really realized how much I was fighting until plugging in the McCarty and realizing how easy it could be.

I'm thinking a set of BKP Black Dogs, Mules, or maybe Abraxas may be my my LPs future.

BKP eh? With your tastes, seriously look into the Mule Neck / Riff Raff bridge combo. Everyone swears by it.

I could not bond with my Mark V at all. Yes the guitar and electronics does make a difference as the amp is sensitive to the higher frequencies. Most of the time I could not achieve anything but an ear ache due to the abundance of ice pick even with the treble, presence set to lowest setting on CH2 or CH3. Tried every thing from tubes, different pickups, and converting to a combo. No matter what I tried my tolerance for the amp was short compared to the many hours of joy I get from the Roadster or RA100 (head or combo). Never thought on change of impedance with a 40 ft cable. That makes more sense to me as I do understand the reactive impedance with transmission lines (capacitive and inductive). What really changed all of that for me was change in driver format. With an Alnico driver in the combo, the more I play though it the more I like it. This has been the first time since I ever noticed in improvement in touch sensitivity with this amp. Before the change, I had often thought that I would not miss the Mark V if I sold it, but that has changed to a "yes I would miss it" opinion.

I liked (and still like) the Mark V. I just felt that it pulled me into a certain playing style. I'm actually kind of curious to hear how it'd sound with this McCarty, but that's not really in the cards right now.

On that note, while the McCarty and Recto sound great together this guitar has turned my ED into a little monster. The darker sound and mid push is making for some seriously raunchy guitar tones. With the Les Paul this amp always had a little bit too much top and bottom end, and dialling either back gutted the sound so I just dealt with it.

I thought I'd learned a lot over the last however long this thread and experimentation were going on, but this PRS just took me to school and the lessons it taught me are a definite game changer for me.

Best thing when trying gear is to have no prejudices. Even if you **think** you won't like something based on who plays it, what they play, and what sound they get; you can NEVER know what will happen under your fingers.

 

[screamingdaisy]

BKP eh? With your tastes, seriously look into the Mule Neck / Riff Raff bridge combo. Everyone swears by it.

I'll add it to my list. BKP lists it as a good choice for a guitar that needs a brighter rock and roll voice. I suspect they'd be killer in my SG, not so sure about this LP. That said, I'm resigned to the fact that it may take a few swaps before I figure out what works best.

Either way, I have a couple months to think on it as I'm a little broke right now.

 

[YellowJacket]

Ah yes, christmas time.

Your best bet would be to communicate directly with BKP about what you want. They do a pretty good job of sussing that all out and recommending something that is suitable for your needs. A guy who had a brighter guitar was swearing on a Mule in the neck and an Abraxas in the bridge.

I have a Rebel Yell neck and an Alnico Nailbomb in my LP. They're cool pickups but the bridge pickup is quite a bit more hairy, aggressive, and pissed off than a stock Gibson HMB. The guitar doesn't sound like a stock Gibson and this is likely not what you are going for.

I really like the Rebel YEll bridge pickup but it's very bright, clear, crunchy, and defined with a wide pick attack. Pairs up wonderfully well with a Recto but it is probably not what you are looking for.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Bridge pickups I've liked: Super Distortion, EMG 81, Gibson P90, Lollar Imperial Highwind (A2 PAF wound to 9.4k), PRS 58/15.

Bridge pickups I've disliked: JB, 59, Custom 5, 85.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I switched the McCarty's strings from nickel to nickel plated steel and started using a more aggressive pick. It gave the guitar the cut and attack it was missing. It also started producing this incredible sub-harmonic. When I play a power chord it rings out an octave below the fundamental.

Apparently this is a natural phenomenon (an audio illusion caused by the intermodulation of the root and 5th) and now that I know about it I've tested and found that all my guitars will do it, however the McCarty's is noticeably stronger than the Les Paul.

(by "noticeably stronger", I mean that after 22 years of playing and 12 years of using Rectos this stood out so much it caused me to research sub-octaves on the internet so I could get my head wrapped around what I was hearing).

You can test it yourself by playing just the root on the low E, then playing a root/5th and comparing the low end response.

 

[screamingdaisy]

After watching this video produced by Bare Knuckle Pickups:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D756154qUdo

I took the covers off the Burstbuckers in my Les Paul (the Burst). It was improvement, but I don't know how to put it into words. Most descriptions I've read said removing the covers will make the tone slightly brighter, but I find that to be inaccurate/inadequate. Removing them has reshaped the upper midrange and changed the attack transient. Basically, it produced a faster/tighter response with a more solid feel. I've lost the top end twang and high notes no longer have a reedy scream when soloing. Without the covers things sound more refined.. modern... solid. All fairly inadequate descriptors, but with any luck the differences in the video linked above will fill in the details.

I liked the change so much that I pulled the covers off the Lollar Imperials (Highwinds) I have in my Goldtop. Again, a big improvement. This guitar was always kind of dark and lacking definition before. I'd rotated a few pickups through it and I figured it just wasn't a very good piece of wood. I also wasn't really all that impressed with the sound of an overwound PAF and have been avoiding them figuring I preferred a more traditional wind. Removing the covers brought an upper mid clarity that it lacked before. Same basic idea, a little more modern and solid sounding.

The last change I made was lowering the pickups on both guitars. I'd been setting them up near the the basic 1.6mm bridge and 2.4mm neck heights Gibson recommends and tweaking a bit until they sounded best. While searching for information I ran across Slash's setup specs and decided to give them a try. 3mm bridge and 5mm neck. I think I've tried these before and I didn't like it because it made things sound weak and lacked punch/definition. With the covers off they sound great. The lowered pickups obviously aren't driving the amp as hard, but things sound pretty clear, articulation is great and they're still plenty punchy.

What's funny (to me) is that before I pulled the covers I was going to ditch the Lollars, put the Burstbuckers in the Goldtop to brighten it up and install whatever new pickups I decide on in the Burst. With the covers off I'm leaving the Lollars where they are ditching the Burstbuckers.

Anyway, have a Merry Christmas.

Cheers,

SD

 

[screamingdaisy]

Oh... and after watching this (skip to 34:20 to get to the part where he actually plays);

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoxSb6Mvg8g

I'll be pickup up a set of EL34s.

 

[Given To Fly]

I switched the McCarty's strings from nickel to nickel plated steel and started using a more aggressive pick. It gave the guitar the cut and attack it was missing. It also started producing this incredible sub-harmonic. When I play a power chord it rings out an octave below the fundamental.

Apparently this is a natural phenomenon (an audio illusion caused by the intermodulation of the root and 5th) and now that I know about it I've tested and found that all my guitars will do it, however the McCarty's is noticeably stronger than the Les Paul.

(by "noticeably stronger", I mean that after 22 years of playing and 12 years of using Rectos this stood out so much it caused me to research sub-octaves on the internet so I could get my head wrapped around what I was hearing).

You can test it yourself by playing just the root on the low E, then playing a root/5th and comparing the low end response.

This natural phenomenon is an integral part in pipe organ construction. Pipe organs have it refined to the point only the sub-harmonic/resultant tone/sum-difference tone is audible. The phenomenon is less precise on the guitar but its a pretty cool sound and technique to develop none the less.

Learning is fun!

 

[afu]

Oh... and after watching this (skip to 34:20 to get to the part where he actually plays);

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoxSb6Mvg8g

I'll be pickup up a set of EL34s.

I really like his reviews. He's funny, but methodical. He's not a bad player either.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I really like his reviews. He's funny, but methodical. He's not a bad player either.

I liked that he calls his kit "kit". Calling my kit "gear" on the Internet has always felt awkward. Same goes with calling my setup a "rig".

I didn't like that he felt the need to explain/correct himself over it multiple times.

Either way, I've been listening to a lot of stuff with Marshalls on it and developing a case GAS over one. The saving grace (for my wallet) is I know Marshalls will only produce "that sound" at volumelevels that I can't currently obtain. Hearing him in those clips has me thinking EL34s are worth a shot.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Now that my self-imposed moratorium on modifying kit over...

I always found my Recto 2x12 a little scooped. Too boomy on the low end, too abrasive on the top end. I kept using it in an effort to force myself to dial in better sounds, but every time I plug back into my 4x12 it reminds me how much better it sounds.

I suspect the issue is that 16Ω and 8Ω V30s sound different, and eventually I'll experiment with that theory as I happen to own an extra pair of Mesa 8Ω V30s, but for now it's getting a pair of Greenbacks (8Ω) because one of those Mesa V30s replaced the stock MC90 in my ED.

So far I like the change, but I haven't been able to push the volume enough to get a real feel for them yet.

 

[afu]

That's cool. Have you gotten it loud enough to comment, yet?

I've been considering the Avatar Hellatone speakers, since they're broken in. The WGS speakers look good, too, and are not very expensive. I'm considering whether, in any case, I want the sensitivity to come down for a little less volume. You know, Output at 10:00-ish instead of 12:00 and have the speakers doing their sick dance moves.

I once upgraded a practice amp with an Eminence Texas Heat. That sucker could get really loud after that (and sounded really good). It could handle over 100 dB, no sweat, and when it was pushed, it stayed tight. But, yeah, very loud.

BTW, I just looked and Avatar Speakers is having a sale to clear out inventory from this year, including 2X12s with Vintage 30s.