power strip-style power conditioners

[Ohaire]

does anyone have any experience with any? My home wiring is fairly old and i need to clean up the power going into my amp and effects because it produces some very annoying buzzing and such.

I'm looking at this currently:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Monster-Power-Pro-800-High-Performance-Pro-PowerCenter?sku=182657

Does anyone know of any other decent power conditioners that aren't a rack piece?

 

[t0aj15]

Remember, you get what you pay for. That unit appears to me to be nothing more then an overpriced power strip. I use the Furman Power Factor Pro and I can tell you it REALLY cleaned up and stablized my amp rig. It costs more, but IMO it's well worth the cost. See it here:http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?id=PF-PRO

 

[mikey383]

Yeah, that's just a glorified power strip that Monster can jack the price way up on because it says Monster. I'll probably get sued for using their name without their permision in this post.

Spend the extra money and buy a Furman. At least get the PL plus, since it has a voltage monitor on it, that way you know what voltage you're running.

 

[unconventional]

Whats wrong with this? Why would you choose that big thing over this? Not criticizing you, just wondering. I know nothing about these.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/M8D/

 

[mikey383]

There isn't anything wrong with those, if you are just looking for more outlets and something to protect your gear from spikes. It won't *condition* the power though. If you have voltage drops, it will still transfer those drops.

I think the PL Plus is the cheapest model they make that actually conditions the voltage and suplies a constant voltage. I had my amp plugged into the same outlet as an air conditioner in my studio, and when the compressor for the AC unit kicked on, the voltage to my amp would drop, resulting in a loss of volume to the amp. When I had the PL Plus plugged into that same outlet, and the amp into the PL Plus, I didn't get that volume loss when the compressor kicked on.

It's worth the extra money you spend, especially if you play out. The voltage in some bars and such is usually not very reliable.

 

[disassembled]

Has anyone used something like an APC UPS to regulate voltage and provide backup AC incase of power failure?

I always thought it was a waste to buy a rack unit since the price is so high. Why not go for better protection AND have backup power so you can shut your amp down safely? Some of the UPS have output regulation so they output 120volts at all times.

I think there was a 500watt model for sale at a local store for $130ish. Not bad IMO because that would cover just about any 100 watt amp, effects rack, and pedal board no problem.


Greg

 

[mikey383]

I don't think 500 watts would be enough to power all that. A 100 watt amp produces 100 watts, but it's power comsumtion will be more than that. Probably in the neighborhood of around 5-700 watts or more. Add in pedal board and rack and you can be up over 1500 watts in no time.

It can be done if you want to spend the money, but UPSs are heavy, and typically too bulky for everyday gigging.

 

[domct203]

I don't think 500 watts would be enough to power all that. A 100 watt amp produces 100 watts, but it's power comsumtion will be more than that. Probably in the neighborhood of around 5-700 watts or more. Add in pedal board and rack and you can be up over 1500 watts in no time.

It can be done if you want to spend the money, but UPSs are heavy, and typically too bulky for everyday gigging.

+1

500W will limit the amplifier's potential. Remember Ohm's Law, and here is a simplified example:

If your 100W (audio output) amplifier has a maximum 4A current draw (determined by fuse rating), at 120V that's 480 watts of power needed right there (120 * 4), not to mention a surge of another amp or two that a slo-blo fuse will allow (600-720W). Now, take that max value of 720W and multiply it times 1.5 (reserve/safety) and you got 1080W just for the amp.

Dom

 

[mikey383]

Pulling out Ohm's Law...excellent.

It's a wise choice to have too much power on hand, rather than not enough - in certain instances - and this would be one of them. It's not a good idea to stretch yourself thin on power, because you'll just end up choking your gear.

Think of power like breathing through a straw versus free air. You'll have a harder time breathing through a straw. When you limit the amount of power your amp gets, it's basically forcing it to breathe through a straw.

 

[unconventional]

So basically if you play out, you have to spend an extra $500 - 1000 on a power conditioner too.

Why not just bring this with you?

 

[mikey383]

Eh, the voltage from generators is typically "dirty" power, and they still use a UPS to filter the voltage and ensure that there's no delay between power loss and the generator starting. I'm an electrician by trade, and I've installed many Cat generators.


You can get a *good* power conditioner for around $200. The Furman PL Plus goes for right around $199 I believe. IMO, it's an essential piece of gear for playing out. You never know what the power is like in places, especially older buildings.

Here's an example of what I mean: I was playing a gig at a bar one night, and had my amp plugged into an outlet on the stage. Supposedly it was a grounded outlet...three prong. The PA was being fed from an outlet in the back of the room. I powered on my amp, and went to do a mic check - and before I do that, I touch the tuners of my guitar to the metal mesh of the microphone. Doing so resulted in a fireball being thrown from the headstock of my guitar. One of the outlets was wired backwards, and it created a dead short because of the outlets not being grounded properly. Needless to say, we didn't play there that night.

A power conditioner wouldn't have helped in this situation, but it demonstrates how sh***y the power in some places can be.

 

[unconventional]

Frign monkeys trying to be electricians. I do many things myself. Not because I'm cheap, but because I have to know and I'm inpatient. Carpentry I've been doing forever. Dad was a carpenter, bla bla, worked as a plumber for several years.

Now I can replace outlets, switches and stuff. DUH. But anything beyond that I don't do. Why? Cause I don't want to die and I'm not an electrician. You can butcher Carpentry and things just look crappy. You can butcher plumbing and the worst you get is a leak.

You butcher electrical work and it can kill people. I'd have found out who that guy who wired that was and push his face into the electrical box.

IDIOTS.

 

[mikey383]

I was ready to kick someone's *** that night. I'd been doing that trick for months at bars, but usually nothing ever really happened, and I almost didn't do it that night. For some odd reason I did it anyway, and I'm thankful that I did. Had that been my mouth that touched the mic, I likely would have been electocuted instantly. The circuit breakers didn't even trip.

It aggravates me to no end when people think they can do their own electrical work. I've been an electrician for over 12 years, and I've seen some crazy stuff. My house being one of them. Whoever wired my garage needs a swift kick in the groin. Outlets wired to switches wired to lights wired to outlets...etc. :shock:

 

[unconventional]

I hear you chief. I got a new house, 215 Amp Circuit? Does that sound right? I don't know electrical. Anyhow when I plug the frign vaccuum in the living room on the other side of the room when the AC is on, a breaker goes. Drives me nuts. It's 2008 for christ sake and they can't wire a frign house properly. The AC is 115 not 220. Perhaps I'll wire my own outlet for it, I can do that, and let someone who knows what they're doing hook it into the box.

So that's a trick you use ha? To make sure you don't get electrocuted ha? Guitar tuners against mic? LOFL. I know it must have sucked, but I would have loved to seen the look on you and whoever else was watching.

Kevin

 

[jzerza]

Don't know if you would be interested, but I just picked up a furman spb-8c (Pedalboard and power conditioner) last week and it works great. Really cleaned up my sound. I was actually surprised at the difference it made. You can plug your amp in and power your pedals (if you use any, otherwise nevermind) The going price seems to be $350. but I found a guy on ebay (audiosavings) is his seller name. They seem to sell this as $349 or best offer, w/ free shipping. They accepted my offer of $250.00 as well as some others at the same price and they keep posting more.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Furman-SPB8C-Powered-PedalBoard?sku=150137

Here's a link to the ebay store

http://stores.ebay.com/AUDIOSAVINGS-ELECTRONICS-SUPERSTORE

 

[mikey383]

I have that same problem in my house, and it's over 30 years old. I take it you're using a window AC unit? Not much you can do about that other than turn it off when you vaccuum. Window units draw a lot of current. At least your breaker is working. That's always a good thing.


Yeah, I've used that trick for when I'm playing guitar and using a mic. I've been shocked a few times when the PA is on a different outlet than my amp and I'm playing and singing, so I started doing that a while back. Usually it will just get some noise through the PA and my amp, or there'll be a few small sparks, and I'll switch the ground on my amp, and that will usually take care of things. This particular time is was a freaking fireball though. It was like pyrotechnics lol. It left burn marks on the mic mesh and my tuners :shock:

 

[Ohaire]

any other suggestions than that Furman floor deal? I'm trying to find an alternative to a rack system because i have no other rack gear.

 

[eventide_awakening]

... I'll switch the ground on my amp, and that will usually take care of things.

How do you go about switching the ground on your amp? Just switching outlets until you no longer have sparks? The lead singer in my band has been shocked many times when he gets on his mic. We are not using a conditioner yet, but one is supposed to be on the way (stupid music123 is taking forever).

This particular time is was a freaking fireball though. It was like pyrotechnics lol. It left burn marks on the mic mesh and my tuners :shock:

I would love to have seen that. Hate that it happened, but I love home-made pyrotechnics.

 

[DeFrag]

You could be experiencing a ground loop which occurs when there is more than one ground connection path between two pieces of equipment. What happens is if 2 units are on different circuits with different grounds, a potential (voltage) can exist between them. Check into a Radial Engineering Jensen based isolator.

 

[jab]

back to the original thought: it would be cool if there was a power strip that also acted as a conditioner. Space and having too much to carry around is a concern. Wonder if you can just buy this strip without the board/case? It says it's a conditioner.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Furman-SPB8C-Powered-PedalBoard?sku=150137