Thanks for sharing that. Yea if you can do any A/B sound clips demonstrating before/after that would be awesome. I think I will probably have to do the mod, with a switch just in case. I'm sorta torn on issue. On the one hand, the mid hump in the 20/20 makes solos really sing. On the other hand, I do feel my rhythm chunking is wimpy. On the other hand, I haven't played it with a band yet and it might actually be a good thing that the bass is out. I'm not sure right now. I do think my 2-ninety had more beef to it and sounded great with the band, so probably the deep mod on the 20/20 is what I want to do as well. On the other hand, I hate to lose that singing quality. But I suppose I could program some mid humpage into my Vox tonelab if I want it. Can't really add more bass without making it sound too woofy.
Mesa 20/20 Deep Mod
- Thread starter francm
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sir riff a lot
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Hi everyone,
I did the mod a couple of weeks ago, I love it.
it just makes the 20/20 sound more balanced and like a normal tube power amp.
The only preset I had to change afterwards was my clean sound , it was very bassy.
as for the other presets I just turned the prescense on the 20/20 up a notch and they were all good.
the biggest difference was my chunk chunk metallica style rhythm sounds, much more balls.
but the lead sounds still sing and didnt become muddy.
of course your experience may vary :wink:
I say if you havent done the mod............ do it
I did the mod a couple of weeks ago, I love it.
it just makes the 20/20 sound more balanced and like a normal tube power amp.
The only preset I had to change afterwards was my clean sound , it was very bassy.
as for the other presets I just turned the prescense on the 20/20 up a notch and they were all good.
the biggest difference was my chunk chunk metallica style rhythm sounds, much more balls.
but the lead sounds still sing and didnt become muddy.
of course your experience may vary :wink:
I say if you havent done the mod............ do it
vitor gracie
Well-known member
Ok, I feel like an idiot. I recently purchased a Mesa 2:50 thinking that my 20/20 (after the deep mod and adding a BBE Sonic Maximizer) just wasn't gonna cut the mustard. I was displeased with it's lack of attack, low end, and over-all dead sound compared to my last amp, a Roadster. The Roadster has been haunting me since it left me and I wasn't able to get good enough metal tones (or so I thought) from my Triaxis+20/20 rig. I got the 2:50 and played with it for several days and thought, ok, this is what I needed ....more headroom. I'll sell the 20/20 and be done with it.
So my wife is gone for several hours today, and I decide to crank the hell out of my 2:50 just to hear it do the metal thing... sounds great. Love it. So then I get this idea...I should just for old times sake crank the 20/20... cuz I never REALLY turned it up loudly since I first got it. (before I did the mod mind you)
>enter epiphany
OMG! I am a fool. Never again will I doubt a piece of Mesa gear again. I had been using the 20/20 to get sounds at ridiculously quiet levels. The amp is made to be turned up and has a "sweet spot" right at about 10-11 o'clock. Now, mind you... thats pretty loud even for a 20 watt amp, but it really fills in the sonic holes I have been missing. The more I turned it up, the less I wanted the sonic maximizer in the mix. In fact, after finding that sweet spot in both power amps side by side, I didn't need the BBE at all. At lower volumes, the BBE is essential, but when you find that level that is just right, you really wont need the "eq" boost at all.
Lastly, I found that the 20/20 plugged side by side into the same cabinet had a (obviously) lower volume sweet spot that it resonated at. This really let me get manageable volumes (although still loud) and it was just as awesome and beefy sounding as the 2:50 was.... just quieter. I REALLY can't stress how much I attribute the "keeper" factor of the 20/20 being due to the deep mod. When I first bought the 20/20 (before the mod) I cranked it and tryed every volume and never landed on a good sound with it. Thats what drove me to buy the BBE. After the mod, and re-learning the amp, I really don't need that BBE at all and have decided it is a terrific piece of gear. I just need to be aware of it's correct fit with that perfect band setting/volume.
If you haven't done this mod yet, you are really never going to realize the 20/20's full potential as a light weight, lower volume, single space tone MACHINE! I would imaging the only thing this thing is not good for is a tone where you need a ton of low-end headroom for dropped tunings or a metal act. It can only get so loud and then it clips on the really low frequencies which is to be expected. The guitar I was using today is a PRS McCarty Single cut drop tuned to "C" with invaders in the bridge and it sounded just fine. Past 11 o'clock on the volume it definately couldn't reproduce the lower frequencies, but a normal tuned guitar or lower volumes sounded just as good as the 2:50 at the same volume level.
in short: DO THE MOD!
So my wife is gone for several hours today, and I decide to crank the hell out of my 2:50 just to hear it do the metal thing... sounds great. Love it. So then I get this idea...I should just for old times sake crank the 20/20... cuz I never REALLY turned it up loudly since I first got it. (before I did the mod mind you)
>enter epiphany
OMG! I am a fool. Never again will I doubt a piece of Mesa gear again. I had been using the 20/20 to get sounds at ridiculously quiet levels. The amp is made to be turned up and has a "sweet spot" right at about 10-11 o'clock. Now, mind you... thats pretty loud even for a 20 watt amp, but it really fills in the sonic holes I have been missing. The more I turned it up, the less I wanted the sonic maximizer in the mix. In fact, after finding that sweet spot in both power amps side by side, I didn't need the BBE at all. At lower volumes, the BBE is essential, but when you find that level that is just right, you really wont need the "eq" boost at all.
Lastly, I found that the 20/20 plugged side by side into the same cabinet had a (obviously) lower volume sweet spot that it resonated at. This really let me get manageable volumes (although still loud) and it was just as awesome and beefy sounding as the 2:50 was.... just quieter. I REALLY can't stress how much I attribute the "keeper" factor of the 20/20 being due to the deep mod. When I first bought the 20/20 (before the mod) I cranked it and tryed every volume and never landed on a good sound with it. Thats what drove me to buy the BBE. After the mod, and re-learning the amp, I really don't need that BBE at all and have decided it is a terrific piece of gear. I just need to be aware of it's correct fit with that perfect band setting/volume.
If you haven't done this mod yet, you are really never going to realize the 20/20's full potential as a light weight, lower volume, single space tone MACHINE! I would imaging the only thing this thing is not good for is a tone where you need a ton of low-end headroom for dropped tunings or a metal act. It can only get so loud and then it clips on the really low frequencies which is to be expected. The guitar I was using today is a PRS McCarty Single cut drop tuned to "C" with invaders in the bridge and it sounded just fine. Past 11 o'clock on the volume it definately couldn't reproduce the lower frequencies, but a normal tuned guitar or lower volumes sounded just as good as the 2:50 at the same volume level.
in short: DO THE MOD!
vitor gracie said:
+1
Most people think they need more power, but really, the 44watts that the 20/20 pushes out is a LOT of volume and with the deep mod, its an awesome little amp. Should'nt have sold mine. I now have a 2:90, that I use for heavy metal. The 20/20 was just sweet sounding, prob. due to the EL-84 tubes.
vitor gracie
Well-known member
Yeah, Im keeping it. Sorry dude, I sent you a PM. Now I REALLY REALLY want a Formula! Damn. Anybody got one they are willing to part with?
Okay, so we have had this great discussion on the deep mod, and I will do it to my new 20/20 soon. But! Has anyone on this forum actually put in a switch to turn the mod on and off? Or even better, has anyone put a pot in to have the ability to vary the amount of the deep mod?
If anyone has done either of those it would be great to hear from them, or see where/how they put the switch/pot in!
If anyone has done either of those it would be great to hear from them, or see where/how they put the switch/pot in!
Hi Justin
i made a mesa 20 deep mode pcb.
It still under test for a month.
You can use it, with jack 1/4". ( personnally a switch it with my triaxis or g-major)
There is no hole to do on the box.
If you check in Ebay, in a few weeks.
i will sold the pcb.
Snoopy
i made a mesa 20 deep mode pcb.
It still under test for a month.
You can use it, with jack 1/4". ( personnally a switch it with my triaxis or g-major)
There is no hole to do on the box.
If you check in Ebay, in a few weeks.
i will sold the pcb.
Snoopy
vitor gracie
Well-known member
No hole to drill? Are you using the hole from the slave out on the back of the unit? Trace at VooDoo amps said they sound better if the slave out is disengaged. I was just curious.
Yes,
i have some pics, but i am not able to post it.(or i do not find the way to post it)
That is a pcb with a switch on and off the capacitor in Parallel with the cathode resistor.
the control of the switch is isolated from manual switching to prevent electrostatic discharge.
If i find the way to includ picture from my pc, i will post some.
i have some pics, but i am not able to post it.(or i do not find the way to post it)
That is a pcb with a switch on and off the capacitor in Parallel with the cathode resistor.
the control of the switch is isolated from manual switching to prevent electrostatic discharge.
If i find the way to includ picture from my pc, i will post some.
Thanks Crane
http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images/musique/mesa-01,921afa10dc9ff6f22502c31ac4e856a4.jpg.html
http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images/musique/mesa-02,3e0bb058fd70d5464c84424c15209805.jpg.html
http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images/musique/mesa-03,252fb900e49c0e6f2f3b323fb5c4a8be.jpg.html
If you do not see the picture, use link.
http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images/musique/mesa-01,921afa10dc9ff6f22502c31ac4e856a4.jpg.html
http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images/musique/mesa-02,3e0bb058fd70d5464c84424c15209805.jpg.html
http://www.hiboox.fr/go/images/musique/mesa-03,252fb900e49c0e6f2f3b323fb5c4a8be.jpg.html
If you do not see the picture, use link.
Well, this thread will never die I did the deep mod to my 20/20 and (just like everyone else) love it. It's amazing how much better it sounds. I figured I'd throw in a pic of what I did since I made it switchable. I didn't want to drill the front panel or have it somewhere it would be easily seen so I hid the switches inside by the tubes, and the ground switch.
Sorry for the bad picture quality.
I did the deep mod to my 20/20 and (just like everyone else) love it. It's amazing how much better it sounds. I figured I'd throw in a pic of what I did since I made it switchable. I didn't want to drill the front panel or have it somewhere it would be easily seen so I hid the switches inside by the tubes, and the ground switch.Sorry for the bad picture quality.
The circuit board is to switch the deep mode remotely. In the "classic" approach you send the signal through the two leads to the switch. In the remote approach the signal path stays short, and the external leads only carry the switching signal.
MusicManJP6
Well-known member
MusicManJP6 said:
So...... Does it?vitor gracie
Well-known member
THIS THREAD IS STILL ALIVE! lol WOOT!
A little history lesson from an old boogie user:
When the 50:50 came out, it was "voiced" for the mesa studio preamp, while the 2:90 was always intended for the triaxis. If you tried to use the 50:50 with a triaxis, it had this midrange hump and not a lot of bottom. (Sound familiar?). So mesa came up with a "deep extend mod". I did this over the phone with Mike Bendinelli back in the early 90's when I got my triaxis. Big improvement. Eventually, they started making all 50:50's this way as the studio preamp was phased out and everyone complained about the tone of the 50:50 with the triaxis.
Sometime later, I bought an early 20:20 to shave weight. Disaster. Midrange hump was more of a midrange mountain, surronded by The Valley of NoBottom. Called mesa, "do you have a deep extend mod for the 20:20??". They started checking into it, but took too long to get back to me so I returned the 20:20to make sure I could get my $ back. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who called about this.
Here I am, years later, glad that someone finally figured this out.
I still have my triaxis (and the 50:50) but I use a Fractal Audio Systems Axe-Fx more nowadays. (It's the bomb, it mimics the triaxis scary well, and does all kinds of other things wtih built-in world-class fx, check it out, as a backup if nothing else... worth every dime of the $2k I paid for it). I'd bet either would sound nice with the modded 20:20.
When the 50:50 came out, it was "voiced" for the mesa studio preamp, while the 2:90 was always intended for the triaxis. If you tried to use the 50:50 with a triaxis, it had this midrange hump and not a lot of bottom. (Sound familiar?). So mesa came up with a "deep extend mod". I did this over the phone with Mike Bendinelli back in the early 90's when I got my triaxis. Big improvement. Eventually, they started making all 50:50's this way as the studio preamp was phased out and everyone complained about the tone of the 50:50 with the triaxis.
Sometime later, I bought an early 20:20 to shave weight. Disaster. Midrange hump was more of a midrange mountain, surronded by The Valley of NoBottom. Called mesa, "do you have a deep extend mod for the 20:20??". They started checking into it, but took too long to get back to me so I returned the 20:20to make sure I could get my $ back. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who called about this.
Here I am, years later, glad that someone finally figured this out.
I still have my triaxis (and the 50:50) but I use a Fractal Audio Systems Axe-Fx more nowadays. (It's the bomb, it mimics the triaxis scary well, and does all kinds of other things wtih built-in world-class fx, check it out, as a backup if nothing else... worth every dime of the $2k I paid for it). I'd bet either would sound nice with the modded 20:20.
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