Mark III or Mark IV

[trickyrick]

Hey Guy's, I have been perusing this board for months, it is a great wealth of knowledge. This is my first post and I know it is probably one of the most redundent posts throughout the board so forgive me. Let me give you a little back ground before I ask my question. I used to own a loaded mark IIC, loaded. I used it for 12 years, it was 82 and I bought it new. Selling it was the biggest mistake I ever made. It was not a C+ just standard. I am looking for a new amp. I am thinking abaout a MKIII because right now they are more abundant than the IV's and they are less money. I am not a gigging musician, I just like to record a lot at home and jam with friends. Alright, sorry for the rant.

My question is, can I get a close lead tone from the III that I got with the II, or is that only obtainable from a IV? The III I am looking at is loaded, Simulclass, reverb and stock with an EVM. No stripe. I have read a lot of the posts, and I keep seeing conflicting opinions. Can someone with experience with all 3 models shed some light on this for me. It doesn't need to be an exact match, but I would like it to be smooth like the C. I appreciate any help I can get from you experts. Thanks. Rich

 

[ToneAddictJon]

I would go for the III, especially just for recording and jamming. The IV is sweet, but for the price difference right now, and if it's a loaded combo like you described it should do everything you want it to. It's all about personally preference, so try out the III if you can, and if it does it for you, get it.

 

[trickyrick]

Thanks TAJ. Thats the problem, I can't try them. I have 2 auth dealers here in Richmond and niether have MKIV's. I have been checking all of the local Sam Ash's and GC's in hopes of a used MKIII showing up so I can listen to them, but after a couple of months of looking, still no luck. I have been W\O an amp for too long. I don't mind spending the extra $$$ for the MKIV because I am pretty certain this will be the last amp I buy for a long time. If however I can get a nice smooth gain like the II from the III, I will go for that. I am not too concerned about channel 2, I probably won't use it. From what I have read it seems like its a hard chan to dial in anyway. I will probably run some effects into that front of the amp anyway, such as delay, chorus, and an O/D for crunch and rely on C3 for lead. Any feedback is appreciated, because I am ready to jump now one way or the other, help a brother out. Thanks.

 

[Tuna141]

I presently own a Mark IIC, a III blue stripe, a IV which are all loaded combos, so hopefully my advice will be helpful.

I'll start by saying that my IIC is anyting but smooth. The clean is excellent, and the distortion is awesome too, but it is anything but smooth. It's very "in your face". I've had the amp for years and love it. From what I hear, the C+ is much smoother than the C.

The III offers more gain than the IIC. The clean is goog, btu not quite as good as the C's. The distortion on the III is very good - both channels. If you do get a III, you should perform the R2 volume mod - good instructions can be found on this board.

The IV is a good amp as well and is very versitile - great footswitch features.

Tonewise I prefer the IIC then the III, then the IV. They all sound kind of similar but each have different nuances. I love the nasty disttortion you can get out of the III.

For a bedroom player, I'd go for a III. If you were going to be playing live or recording alot, then I'd say go for a IV because of it's versitility.

When I just want to mess around at home, I'll usually plug into the III, if that tells you anything. Also, the III's can usually be found at a bargain price. These amps are one of the best amp deals out there right now, IMO.

The III will get you close to the C's tone. I kind of think of it's tone as half-way between a C and a IV (which makes sense, consdiering when it was developed ).

One more thing, if you do get a III, make sure it has the reverb mo, and keep the Presence very low (I keep mine on 1). The distortion can get very buzzy if it's turned-up high.

Good luck.

 

[trickyrick]

Tuna141, thanks so much, that is exactly what I was looking for. When I said smooth gain like a IIc, I wasn't suggesting the distortion wasn't in your face, because I agree. Maybe what I am trying to say is (harmonic sustain). When I owned my IIc I never needed a distortion pedal, not even a boost, so I know what that sounds like. Now that I know that I can get close with a III, I think I will go that route.

There is a really a nice one on E-bay now that keeps going up in price. It seems that since I started looking both the III's and IV's are going up. There are 17 year old IV's with BIN's of $1500. For another $500 I can get a new one from Mesa.

The III ends on Friday and I will keep an eye on it. It's at $700 now with a road case, it's loaded with an EV, simulclass, 100 watt. What would be a reasonable price to pay? It is no stripe, so any Mesa mods would tack onto the price. Should I wait for a cheaper one with mods?

I just bought and sold a nomad100 because the gain wasn't aggresive enough for me, I don't want to make another mistake and buy an amp that I am going to lose $$$ on. That's why I really want to make an educated decision and but the right amp this time. Thanks for all the help.

 

[ToneAddictJon]

On a fully loaded III, I wouldn't pay more than $800. It's definitely "worth" more than that, but there's always another one out there for cheaper. The shipping on that one looks like $100 on top of the price, plus it doesn't come with any pedals (even though you can make them for under $10 from radioshack parts it's still part of the deal). On top of all that it's sold as is and is already at $780, add shipping and that's close to $900, plus footpedals needed. I would put an add up on CL and see if you can't find one (WTB- MARK III...blahblahblah), that's how I found my IV (only one for sale in my area, and I gave the guy the idea to sell it by putting my add up looking for one) and my III.

 

[Shep]

the mk III really does have the great value for money.. i really don't understand why they are so cheap over in the US .. they are such a great amp..

 

[Mercury25]

I flat out love my Mark III. I recently sold my Roadster and this amp has all the sounds I love--clean to nasty!

I was trying to buy a IV, but it just never seemed to work out--then this Blue stripe, reverb, simulclass, EQ III fell into my lap...along with a Thiele 112 cab.

FWIW, I paid $1000 for both and they are in great condition.

Pics are here: http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=15366

 

[trickyrick]

Thanks for the reply's fella's. I was going to bid on the III for a max of $900+ the $100 for shipping but I feel the same way you do. For a few hundred more I can get a IV if they stay up there long enough. The other day someone posted a short head IV with a BIN for $800, it lasted for like 15 minutes. I have been looking at ebay at least 20 times a day waiting for the reasonable BIN offer, I guess I will just keep waiting for the good deal.

Last week I bid on a IV short combo with an EV, B version. The guy was only 3 hours away and I had already spoken with him about picking the amp up at his store if I won the bid. I didn't.

I really like the III ending today, but I can't justify paying that much for it when a similar amp " purple stripe "just went for $799. It was a little more beat up but I don't care about that. I own a wood shop and I plan on building an exotic wood cabinet anyway. My way of justifying the price to my wife, "look honey, new furniture".

I really appreciate all of the input, I am going to go for the best deal either way I think, III or IV. I am jonesing to play loud and tired of playing through a small practice amp. I am patient though. Thanks again.

 

[darkbluemurder]

I am patient though. Thanks again.

That is the best attitude. I acquired my Mark III two years ago when I needed a bigger clean amp than my Fender Deluxe Reverb II for country rock gigging. In the same week there were a Fender 80s Concert and a Mark III on the bay at good prices. I bid on both hoping to get one of them and voila - I got both.

Mark III is a 60W black stripe fully loaded except EQ with a Black Shadow EV. Loud!!! I never play through the combo speaker though since this is too much into the face IMHO. I always use an extension cabinet.

 

[Tuna141]

Maybe what I am trying to say is (harmonic sustain).

You hit the nail on the head with that phrase. I have yet to find another amp that is as harmonically rich and sustains like my C. After not using it for a few weeks, I actually played it last night with my Guild Stafire IV hollow-body. Talk about a killer combination. Tone for days!

I just bought and sold a nomad100 because the gain wasn't aggresive enough for me

I think a III will be more than agressive enough for you.The distortion can get downright brutal (close to Rectifier territory). BTW - I played a Nomad once and did not like it at all. I think you'll be happier with another Mark.

Like others have suggested, I'd be patient, and look for the amp you really want - either a good deal on a IV or a later stripe III w/reverb mod. The R2 volume mod on the III is not really out of the ordinary, so you may be able to find one with the mod already installed.

I purchased my loaded III blue stripe combo w/EV about 6 months ago, locally, off of Craig's List for only $600 - it had to be cleaned-up, the reverb was not working, and it didn't have the R2 volume knob, missing a couple of rubber feet. I fixed it up and it looks like new and sounds awesome. You should be able to find a loaded one for $850 or less. These amps have been appreciating lately and I think this trend will continue.

I prefer the combos and then stick a Thiele 1x12 cab under it to get a very full sound (similar to a 4x12, but only half the size and very portable)

 

[trickyrick]

Thanks Tuna 141. I think I am going to hold out for a IV. No offense to ANY of the III owners out there, I am sure I would be just as happy with a III but Knowing the way I am I will always have that touch of doubt and what if syndrom. Everyone talks about good deals, I just have to wait for mine to come along. As far as the nomad, I liked the clean very much and it did the brown sound nicley too but It's gain is not that aggressive. I read posts how the red channel approches a REC, and I can't see that at all! I played through a Roadster last weekend and that is certainly a rectifier sound which is way more aggressive then the nomad was. I am not knocking the nomad at all, it is a great amp for what it does, just not for me.

I actually thought about getting the 2x12 roadster, but I thought the IV would be a bit more versatile. The gain may not be as aggressive in a IV but I think it would be enough for what I like to play. I am heavily influenced by DT, Frank Zappa, Fripp, Vai and Gilmour. So I am doing the mark IV if and when a deal comes along.

Once again, I would like to thank all of you who have helped me along in making a decision. I will keep you updated when I score a rig, or when I change my mind again and end up with a First Act solid state amp from Toys R Us because my wife doesn't understand the musician mentality. Funny thing is She plays piano and has a beautiful grand piano that I paid for. That never gets mentioned. Peace.

 

[robbie rocker]

I love my Mark III. I got it back in '87 and it's all I've ever known!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10360647@N08/1095879286/

 

[trickyrick]

Nice amp man. My mark IIC looked like that, wood cab, wicker grill, it was loaded. I can't believe I let it go. At this point I don't care which amp I get even though I am leaning towards the IV. Thanks.

 

[robbie rocker]

Thanks trickyrick! I'm sure the IV will do you well.....

 

[trickyrick]

Well, I did it. I bid and won a IV. It's a wide, which I wanted anyway. It has a C-90 and I prefered the EVM12. It looks mint from the pics. I will date it when I get it. I am certain it's a B, At this point I am so psyc'ed to be getting this amp I can't wait. I will update when it arrives. Thanks again everyone for all of your in-put and advice.

 

[Glockaxis]

Was that the one that went for 1355 or something this morning w/ the buyer being from Connecticut

 

[trickyrick]

Yeah thats the one. Those guy's have an add in the back of guitar magazine, it looks like a cool showroom. All high end stuff. I bid on one last week and loss from NC that I was going to go pick up. The prices have gone up on these in like a 2 week period. Just in time for me to buy one. Now the prices will drop again. It doesn't matter, I'm happy. The amp looked mint. I can't wait to get it.

 

[Johnson]

Congrats on a great amp!

 

[Restless Rocks]

I was pretty hot for the one in Reidsville myself and the last tolex "B" I went nuts over went for $1443. last second. I guess soon you're just as well off to get a new one. I've just got a thing for the mid 90's B's for some reason. A lot of the parts are coming from China now and it's starting to show.