Going with a new tube set on MKV

[Heritage Softail]

Went ahead and took the plunge for some new tubes. (4) SED Winged C 6L6GC, (7) Tung Sol 12AX7, and (1) JJ 5U4GB. Heard quite a few good comments from others on the Winged C as well as Tung Sol 12's, took the tube guys word on the JJ 5U4GB. Seems popular opinion is that Boogie tubes of late are a little lacking. Will have them in hand Monday. Will let you know how they work out.

 

[Hendog]

Went ahead and took the plunge for some new tubes. (4) SED Winged C 6L6GC, (7) Tung Sol 12AX7, and (1) JJ 5U4GB. Heard quite a few good comments from others on the Winged C as well as Tung Sol 12's, took the tube guys word on the JJ 5U4GB. Seems popular opinion is that Boogie tubes of late are a little lacking. Will have them in hand Monday. Will let you know how they work out.

I was thinking about some Tung Sol 12AX7's myself.

I think I'm going to stick with Mesa 6L6's however.

 

[JLBoogie]

It would be interesting to me if you first changed out the preamp tubes using the Mesa power tubes and note the change, try the Mesa preamp tubes with the new winged power tubes and note changes and of course the change with all new tubes. Looked forward to reading about the results.

 

[yarzo]

Yes, please report back your findings.

I just ordered some Tung-Sol's golds for V1, V2, V3.

I'll try these for now and see how they sound.

 

[eudaimonia02912]

I put Tung Sols in V1-3 and didn't like it. It seemed a little too bright to my ears at that point. I've now got a Tung Sol in V1, a NOS EI in V2 (just to add some gain and harmonics to channel 2), and a high gain JJ in V3. I don't think this is the be-all end-all of tube choices, but I like it more than having 3 Tung Sols. YMMV.

 

[MusicManJP6]

Very subjective, but the TungSol RIs are great tubes. I'm currently rocking the TSs in V1, V3, V4, and V7, with Mesas in the other slots and JJ E34Ls power tubes and Mesa Rectifier tube. Love my tone currently!

 

[LerxstLee]

I understand frustrations with the new makes of tubes. I do wish I could part with my stash of NOS tubes, I will try
I am just not there yet. Please do not take this personally I am just trying to understand peoples need to replace new tubes in a new amp with more new tubes sometimes made in the same factory with a different label.
If I tried out an amp for 2k and thought it was lacking I would never take it home. If I felt, well maybe if I spend
2 to 3 hundred dollars on tubes it might subjectively sound better. I would not even consider buying it.
I reread Randalls article on tubes and his theory on bias. I might not agree with all of it. I must say I do believe
mesa is NOT in the business of selling tubes. I do believe they are in business of selling amps that they want to be
reliable for their players. They continually test different brands and models trying to find a balance of tone and quality
consistancy. "I can't spell" . Seems like they are having some trouble right now yet my guess is you are spending another
15% of the cost of the amp to retube it buying tubes from a place that is in business to sell tubes. Off the topic if you payed tax on the amp you now have an approx. 25% surcharge tubes and tax, on your new great sounding mesa amp. I do love experimenting to a point but what makes people think they have a better way to make a newly released amp sound better than what mesa has spent so much time designing? Why would mesa release an amp that would make the buyer feel like they have been robbed of the tone they so deserve? I have babbled long enough, It makes no difference to me if you spend 2k to retube that amp, which is very possible if you choose the NOS way to retube it. I just want to understand why someone buys an amp, a new one at that because they love the way it sounds and all the features just to gut it out and spend 2-3 hundred bucks to make it sound subjectively better?
/time for the sunglasses /cheers

Edit- I did not want to post right after the last one. If you put all new make tubes in an original 1959 bassman, it would surely be a diservice and you would no longer love that amp. Yet imHo these new amps are designed with the tubes available today. They design the amp partially around the tubes. Partially. What is available, what is consistent, what sounds great to mesa when they finalize that amp for release.

 

[eudaimonia02912]

^^^^^

All good points. I think the amp sounds awesome with the stock tubes, but I also happen to have lots of tubes lying around, in part because I did so much experimenting with my previous amp. Given what different tubes did to my previous amp, and how much of an improvement they made, it's only natural to want to experiment with different tubes in this amp.

To be honest, I haven't found that it made that much of a difference.

 

[Hendog]

You used my ^^^ . It's what we used to do before quoting.

Anyway, I remember reading something from Bogner about how he designs his amps to sound the best with modern production tubes.

 

[Heritage Softail]

MBA spew, read on if you like.

Marketing is part of running a busness and MESA sells what it thinks people will buy, at the lowest cost of manufacture, with the quality required to meet or slightly exceed customer expectations. A Herbie is a great amp. Marketed differently and a step up from MESA, to some people. People re-tube Herbies. Same argument about not spending coin to tweak your amp could be made there. Why tweak or upgrade? Some of it is GAS, rainbow chasing, and I will be a better player if I only had...... Just my personal observation/confession. The best thing for my sound lately has been getting Wild Stringdom and practicing with it a few times a week.

I am POSITIVE that Petrucci could still sound every bit as awesome with a Line 6 Spider Valve $300 amp. But I am still getting some new tubes, and this cool new pedal.... Ha Ha Ha :mrgreen:

Peace Out!!!

 

[Heritage Softail]

Yes, please report back your findings.

I just ordered some Tung-Sol's golds for V1, V2, V3.

I'll try these for now and see how they sound.

The Winged C SED's are sweet for channel 1. They distort out when the master is cranked up, the tung sols also bring more gain in ch1, especially Tweed. With the gain and master up to around 2 o'clock you get an early Sabbath distortion out of a stock SG or EMG ceramic. Back off the gain, and using a stock USA strat gives a live Dire Straits sort of breaking up with better articulation. Sounds more JCM 800ish. Channel 1 really gets great treatment from the TS 12ax7s and Winged C's.

Ch 2 gets a little more gain on Edge, a littel more depth, but it is not my channel to start with. Did not play with it much. Crunch gets more of the edge that was in 2C+ on ch 3. MK1 is still dark and creamy. Maybe a little brighter but not much. It still takes setting the EQ so thin on bass that Crunch does not sound right when switching channels on the fly. Will probably just get the pedal MXR 10 band to fix that issue. All 3 modes of ch 2 get more punch. Not as dramatic an improvement as ch1 but notable.

CH3 gets more gain as well. It may be more clarity that I am thinking is more gain but it has better note separation. You can bend 2 notes in a lead and they do not fuzz into one not instantly. It is easier to keep the leads cleaner sounding from note to note. The reverb sounds deeper. The improvements to CH1 make the tube change worth it. The amp has a bit more clarity and better power tube gain characteristic.

Tomorrow is tube day for the REC.

 

[Hendog]

Yes, please report back your findings.

I just ordered some Tung-Sol's golds for V1, V2, V3.

I'll try these for now and see how they sound.

The Winged C SED's are sweet for channel 1. They distort out when the master is cranked up, the tung sols also bring more gain in ch1, especially Tweed. With the gain and master up to around 2 o'clock you get an early Sabbath distortion out of a stock SG or EMG ceramic. Back off the gain, and using a stock USA strat gives a live Dire Straits sort of breaking up with better articulation. Sounds more JCM 800ish. Channel 1 really gets great treatment from the TS 12ax7s and Winged C's.

Ch 2 gets a little more gain on Edge, a littel more depth, but it is not my channel to start with. Did not play with it much. Crunch gets more of the edge that was in 2C+ on ch 3. MK1 is still dark and creamy. Maybe a little brighter but not much. It still takes setting the EQ so thin on bass that Crunch does not sound right when switching channels on the fly. Will probably just get the pedal MXR 10 band to fix that issue. All 3 modes of ch 2 get more punch. Not as dramatic an improvement as ch1 but notable.

CH3 gets more gain as well. It may be more clarity that I am thinking is more gain but it has better note separation. You can bend 2 notes in a lead and they do not fuzz into one not instantly. It is easier to keep the leads cleaner sounding from note to note. The reverb sounds deeper. The improvements to CH1 make the tube change worth it. The amp has a bit more clarity and better power tube gain characteristic.

Tomorrow is tube day for the REC.

OK, it seems like although you do not play modern high gain you have touched on a few points that have caught my attention.

"CH3 gets more gain... better note separation... leads cleaner sounding" ect.

Did you replace all of your 12AX7's (all preamp tubes) with the modern production Tung-Sol tubes?

 

[yarzo]

All I want to say is thank-you to those of you who recommended swapping V1,V2, V3.
I just put some TS Gold pin and can notice a big difference, especially with note separation/definition.
It's just great, but now I have to go buy some more tubes

 

[Heritage Softail]

I replaced all tubes. Ch3 was pretty high gain B4 but I think there may have been a weak tube there. It has considerably more gain and is quiet at idle. Dime the gain and no more swishy sound. For modern metal, I use a Rectifier. That REC is getting new tubes tonight after work.

I wonder what tubes JP really uses. I an not sure if it would be reasonalbe for MESA to request he not talk about swapping out their tubes for another brand, if that is happening. Anybody have any info on JP amp mods? As posted earlier, he could play a $300 Line-6 and still sound great. Just a curiosity more than anything else.

 

[Hendog]

I replaced all tubes. Ch3 was pretty high gain B4 but I think there may have been a weak tube there. It has considerably more gain and is quiet at idle. Dime the gain and no more swishy sound. For modern metal, I use a Rectifier. That REC is getting new tubes tonight after work.

I wonder what tubes JP really uses. I an not sure if it would be reasonalbe for MESA to request he not talk about swapping out their tubes for another brand, if that is happening. Anybody have any info on JP amp mods? As posted earlier, he could play a $300 Line-6 and still sound great. Just a curiosity more than anything else.

I have seen a pic of the back of his Mark V's and they have Mesa Tubes (well, power tubes anyway) but that doesn't mean that he hasn't "upgraded" sence.

 

[kramerxxx]

Any recommendations for Mesa EL34s?

 

[LerxstLee]

If you want to try some great seimen tubes, tested and labeled mesa you will be very please spending the cash on these.
The last of the "NOS" tube. These tubes tend to be fragile, thus buying them from mesa is well worth the price. Most tube vendors that sell the same tubes are the same price, with a few a bit cheaper, yet they do not have the mesa robo tube
working for them. I can also assure you they don't hit the tube with the wooden side of a mallet trying to induce a short and thus weed out the bad ones. Out of a case of these tubes usually 50% get tossed away, so grab some of these mesa spec'd seimen tubes and enjoy true NOS sound with a great guarantee.
I have a nice stash of these although they are pricey, beats getting a set for 75 bucks that may or may not even be tested nor match.

http://store.mesahollywood.com/750609.html

 

[ackcl]

Tried a RFT in V1 (spent a lot of time to install it, it is difficult to see the slot!!!!!), the amp got a very nice crunch now! Bass got tighter and the tone is kinda sweet. worth a try. :twisted:

 

[Heritage Softail]

RFT, not familiar with that one. What are the characteristics of it, where did you get, $?

 

[Tybone]

I think V1 is one of the magic spots on the amp as it is simply labeled "Input" in the manual. I assume this is then the first stage and is used on all 3 channels. based on that I put the bestest, quietest, sweetest OS tube I could find in my stash. I put an NOS GE 5751 (5 star) in V2 as there is already too much gain in Channel 2. (yes, I am not a modern high gain player...at least not like many of you young nimble fellows). Tried 12at7 in that slot but all the ones I had were noisy or squeaky or microphonic.

I appreciate the TS reviews. I will have to pick up a couple and dabble. I also want to get some EL34.

Cheers
Larry