First Gig Impressions With LSS

[jjboogie]

Well I had a show last night in my hometown....It was a medium sized club. There were about 500 people there....Anyways at sound check everything was fine as far as tone and volume and feel......But when it came time to do the show it was a different story! Amp was on the floor because that is the way I like it however I could have really used an amp stand......Once the club filled up and all those folks absorbed the sound I had to turn my amp way up to feel it! Which changed my tone....It still sounded good but I ended up doing a lot of tweaking during the show to compensate for a lack of power........

The front of house guy and the monitor guy both made comments on how the tone got a bit thin and high end but they adjusted their eq to compensate.....My band has a lot of dynamics very high volume to very low volume...Sometimes we play with tracks and sometimes we don't all during an hour and a half show.....

When we are at a loud part I felt drowned out, when we were at a softer part it was perfect.....

I hope to get some video up soon on youtube on the show.....

Anyways I am very seriously considering taking the Amp back to GC and returning it for a Lone Star Classic to have that extra power for situations like mine......

What do you say? Any input would be greatly appreciated....

peace
jjboogie

 

[Herbie the Rad Dorklift]

I highly recommend one of these if you want to hear yourself better

 

[twally]

Did you use the boost for the loud passages? Was the amp set at 30 watts? Did you use the 35 watt selection for speaker output? You have to decide if the amp is right for you, but if you like the EL-18 power section, you should use all the power available to you if you are getting drowned out by the rest of the band.

JMHO,

TW

 

[jjboogie]

Did you use the boost for the loud passages? Was the amp set at 30 watts? Did you use the 35 watt selection for speaker output? You have to decide if the amp is right for you, but if you like the EL-18 power section, you should use all the power available to you if you are getting drowned out by the rest of the band.

JMHO,

TW

Do you mean the Solo feature? yes I did sometimes and it did help.....

I used the amp at 30Watts.....I did not even realize it was able to do 35Watts for speaker output.....Now I know!

Yeah I am really thinking about getting the LSC instead........

 

[alongcameandroo]

The front of house guy and the monitor guy both made comments on how the tone got a bit thin and high end but they adjusted their eq to compensate.....

I take it from this comment that there was a microphone in front of your amp and it was running through the PA? Couldn't you have just asked for more guitar in your monitor instead of cranking your volume and losing your tone? I used to use an F-50 before I got my roadster and found it took a while for me to find a balance between how much volume to allow through the amp and how much to have in my monitors. It took a good 10 shows to find the right balance. I wouldn't give up straight away though, Give it a couple more shows. It's takes your own ears time to adjust to a new amp too because you're so used to hearing the songs you play with your old amp.

 

[ja22y]

In my experience, turning the amp up thicken the sound and adds distortion. You'll find that the 35w mode will be punchier and more dynamic but not necessarily louder.
As I recommended ealier that hearing the amp true tone is important so that what you hear is what the FOH hear. So you can avoid over adjusting and the FOH has to compensated. It's a total distraction from the performance. Whatever you use, as long as the speaker axis is lined with your ears level. I sometimes just put it on the rack case ( a sturdy ones) or if there is a raised plaform for the drums, I put it on there. I still think that the stand is a cheap and a valuable option
Having said that, I solved the issues of on stage monitor by using IEM a couple years back and havn't looked back. Every gig, large or small, and even at soundcheck, I get the exact same mix.
Sounds like you need to play loud and clean so the LSC may be the right ones for you. Now that you're familiar with the LSS, you should check it out side by side at GC. Note that the crunch tone of EL84 and 6L6 is totally different. I like them both :wink:

 

[jjboogie]

The front of house guy and the monitor guy both made comments on how the tone got a bit thin and high end but they adjusted their eq to compensate.....

I take it from this comment that there was a microphone in front of your amp and it was running through the PA? Couldn't you have just asked for more guitar in your monitor instead of cranking your volume and losing your tone? I used to use an F-50 before I got my roadster and found it took a while for me to find a balance between how much volume to allow through the amp and how much to have in my monitors. It took a good 10 shows to find the right balance. I wouldn't give up straight away though, Give it a couple more shows. It's takes your own ears time to adjust to a new amp too because you're so used to hearing the songs you play with your old amp.

The amp was indeed mic'd running through the PA........The way the monitors were set up the band had only side fills which is very rare...99% of the time I have my own monitor so last night was a rarity.......The more instruments that were put in the side fills the more the vocals were drowned out and we couldn't not have that because we rely on vocals for cues.


My only concern is power with the LSS that's all.......Most everyone I spoke to said that I just need to point the actual amp a little more to my ears.....either on an amp stand or road case or something just to elevate it......

 

[jjboogie]

In my experience, turning the amp up thicken the sound and adds distortion. You'll find that the 35w mode will be punchier and more dynamic but not necessarily louder.
As I recommended ealier that hearing the amp true tone is important so that what you hear is what the FOH hear. So you can avoid over adjusting and the FOH has to compensated. It's a total distraction from the performance. Whatever you use, as long as the speaker axis is lined with your ears level. I sometimes just put it on the rack case ( a sturdy ones) or if there is a raised plaform for the drums, I put it on there. I still think that the stand is a cheap and a valuable option
Having said that, I solved the issues of on stage monitor by using IEM a couple years back and havn't looked back. Every gig, large or small, and even at soundcheck, I get the exact same mix.
Sounds like you need to play loud and clean so the LSC may be the right ones for you. Now that you're familiar with the LSS, you should check it out side by side at GC. Note that the crunch tone of EL84 and 6L6 is totally different. I like them both :wink:

Thank you very much for your input......How would you describe the difference between the two drive sounds? Oh by the way I do like clean sounds but with a little gain for warmth.....like a Super Reverb!!!!!!!!!!! My all time favorite amp! I don't like crystal clean sounds that are sterile...A twin reverb to me is too clean.......

 

[JAZZGEAR]

Well I had a show last night in my hometown....It was a medium sized club. There were about 500 people there....Anyways at sound check everything was fine as far as tone and volume and feel......But when it came time to do the show it was a different story! Amp was on the floor because that is the way I like it however I could have really used an amp stand......Once the club filled up and all those folks absorbed the sound I had to turn my amp way up to feel it! Which changed my tone....It still sounded good but I ended up doing a lot of tweaking during the show to compensate for a lack of power........

The front of house guy and the monitor guy both made comments on how the tone got a bit thin and high end but they adjusted their eq to compensate.....My band has a lot of dynamics very high volume to very low volume...Sometimes we play with tracks and sometimes we don't all during an hour and a half show.....

When we are at a loud part I felt drowned out, when we were at a softer part it was perfect.....

I hope to get some video up soon on youtube on the show.....

Anyways I am very seriously considering taking the Amp back to GC and returning it for a Lone Star Classic to have that extra power for situations like mine......

What do you say? Any input would be greatly appreciated....

peace
jjboogie

I gave that amp a try two times (purchased it twice within a 2 year period) and every time I got rid of it because of the same problem you experienced. Fact is-- it's a great amp.....and I feel it is the nature of those EL84s I do not like when the volume has to really get pushed. Those EL84s compress natistily for my tastes.

I would have much preferred that amp in a 6V6 tube config.

The only EL84 amp that has blown me away in tone, no matter the volume level is Bogner's Metropolis -- it has a seductive tone :wink:

Just my .02

 

[JAZZGEAR]

Did you use the boost for the loud passages? Was the amp set at 30 watts? Did you use the 35 watt selection for speaker output? You have to decide if the amp is right for you, but if you like the EL-18 power section, you should use all the power available to you if you are getting drowned out by the rest of the band.

JMHO,

TW

Do you mean the Solo feature? yes I did sometimes and it did help.....

I used the amp at 30Watts.....I did not even realize it was able to do 35Watts for speaker output.....Now I know!

Yeah I am really thinking about getting the LSC instead........

In my experience with that amp, if you're getting drowned out at 30 watts, 35 watts won't make a difference.

 

[ja22y]

If I recall correctly the Super Reverb has a pair of 6L6 and so it's about 40W. I like that amp alot too. In that case you definitely need to check it out side-by-side and give us a shoot-out comparison.
I did just that before making my decision. From memory and only from what my ears heard:
it boils down to the narture of el84 vs 6L6 since the pre amp propably or virtualy the same. 6L6 is punchy and has more bottom but not boomy. Nice and clear high. You still retain dynamic when pushed. El84 breaks up sooner, a little compressed when pushed, more aggressive, and the bottom is not punchy.
In my case, I was not looking for a Fender-ish since I already have Fender, and I really like the single-end 5W mode since I've never have anything like that.

 

[jjboogie]

If I recall correctly the Super Reverb has a pair of 6L6 and so it's about 40W. I like that amp alot too. In that case you definitely need to check it out side-by-side and give us a shoot-out comparison.
I did just that before making my decision. From memory and only from what my ears heard:
it boils down to the narture of el84 vs 6L6 since the pre amp propably or virtualy the same. 6L6 is punchy and has more bottom but not boomy. Nice and clear high. You still retain dynamic when pushed. El84 breaks up sooner, a little compressed when pushed, more aggressive, and the bottom is not punchy.
In my case, I was not looking for a Fender-ish since I already have Fender, and I really like the single-end 5W mode since I've never have anything like that.

Yeah I am going to do a side by side comparison tomorrow....I got to drive a ways to test it out but I found one music store out of a kazillion in my area that has an actual LSC in stock!

 

[twally]

In my experience with that amp, if you're getting drowned out at 30 watts, 35 watts won't make a difference.[/quote]

Yeah,

5 more watts won't make much difference. You probably couldn't even hear the difference in volume. I have a 4/10 cabinet and have only gigged once with mine, but I had mine set to 15 watts and kept up with two other guitar players and a loud drummer.

YMMV.

TW

 

[jjboogie]

Well I played the LSC and the LSS side by side comparing the clean sounds and the dirty sounds........Bottom to me and my taste is that the Lone Star Special beat out the Classic hands down on both channels!!!!! It was no comparison......I spent a long time tweaking the Classic and I just did not like it at all!!!!

I am keeping the LSS and will more than likely get an amp stand or something for future gigs.....Actually I just got a quote for a roadcase so I may put it up on that.....Later on I will get another cab to go with it too....

I was really disappointed with LSC.....I was really surprised.....I cannot give up tone for headroom!!!!

Now let me just say that I did try out a Bogner Shiva and OH MY GOODNESS did that drive channel sound heavenly!!!

Of course it was almost a $1000 more than I planned on spending but it was my first time ever even trying one......Unbelievable......I must say though that the LSS's clean tone was better than the Bogner hands down but the dirty channel was pure cream!!!!

 

[Chris F]

The clean channel on the LSS is AWESOME. And what a reverb!!! I use mostly OD pedals through the clean channel rather than the drive channel on the amp. More satisfying to me. I know people may disagree, but that's just my preference.

 

[igfraso]

Would you say that the LSS is more of a Vox-type while the LSC is more of a Fender-type?

 

[jjboogie]

Would you say that the LSS is more of a Vox-type while the LSC is more of a Fender-type?

In my opinion I would not say that at all.......The LSS sounds way more like a Fender......The specific LSC that I played yesterday sounded like a Mesa Boogie.....Like all the bad as in bad Mesa clean sounds that I have ever heard........same with the dirty channel.......I tweaked the snot out of it and could not get it to sound that great........LSS is like a Fender! Not exactly but very close with its own unique voice....

 

[ja22y]

It's always good to hear a different perspecitive. Being a Fender guy for a long time, the notorious LSC clean, although very good and probably the best of the Mesa, didn't impress me either. Depends on what clean is to you but do a side-by-side of the LSC next to a properly set up vibroking, super reverb, deluxe reverb, you'll see what I mean.

 

[jjboogie]

It's always good to hear a different perspecitive. Being a Fender guy for a long time, the notorious LSC clean, although very good and probably the best of the Mesa, didn't impress me either. Depends on what clean is to you but do a side-by-side of the LSC next to a properly set up vibroking, super reverb, deluxe reverb, you'll see what I mean.

Oh I agree......I have owned both a 66 Deluxe Reverb and a 66 Super Reverb......regret selling both I must say!

Anyways the LSS is neither of those amps....It is similar in certain ways but has its own voice and sound......I really like it.....It is the first and only Mesa Clean sound that I actually like.......Well....actually I do have to confess that the Blue Angel 4X10 did sound nice in the store but the LSS really one my heart in a big way........I was just a little scared about the lower wattage.....but I have done several gigs with a Deluxe and had no issues....then again those gigs I had monitors too.....

 

[Murphy Slaw]

Give me a break.

A Fender Deluxe Reverb has 22 watts with 2;6V6's.

A Fender Super Reverb has 85 watts with 4; 6L6's.

Ching and Chong, man.

This has to be the dumbest thread I've ever read.

If you want a Fender, go get one but don't tell me a LSS can't hold it's own on a stage. There are way too many of them out there doing it. A lot of it is knowing how to dial in a sound.

Sorry.

Actually, no. I'm not.

Murph.