Doug's Tubes evaluation

[THE TUBENATOR]

I decided to basically use this amp as a ONE channel amp. For me, the blues/burn channel is downright unmusical in tone. I have a Turbo Rat pedal, and the 2nd channel sounds like a bad Rat tone.

Otherwise, the whole package works for me. 50W for gigging, and 5w for practice at home as well as gigging. I may try other preamp tubes in the near future, but don't want to put anymore money into this.

I can understand some people not liking the fairly modern sounding burn channel on the 5:50 with the stock Mesa tubes but the blues voice ??????
The Blues voice is one of the best amp OD channels I've ever played and one of the best Mesa have ever produced - very classic & smooth imo :mrgreen:

I completely agree with Newysurfer. The 5:50 blues channel is amazing! I use Mesa tubes and SPAX7's in every position so I cannot offer any opinion on the Doug's tube option but what I'm saying is even with stock Mesa tubes, the Blues channel is impressive! I do know some pedals work better with certain amps and not very well with others.... I don't know anything about your Rat pedal. But to me it sounds like a RAT! Ha ha ha. Just kidding. I have never played or heard one of those pedals so I respectfully withhold any opinion on that pedal. I'm just in disbelief that you do not like the Blues channel.

 

[enigma]

I decided to basically use this amp as a ONE channel amp. For me, the blues/burn channel is downright unmusical in tone. I have a Turbo Rat pedal, and the 2nd channel sounds like a bad Rat tone.

Otherwise, the whole package works for me. 50W for gigging, and 5w for practice at home as well as gigging. I may try other preamp tubes in the near future, but don't want to put anymore money into this.

I can understand some people not liking the fairly modern sounding burn channel on the 5:50 with the stock Mesa tubes but the blues voice ??????
The Blues voice is one of the best amp OD channels I've ever played and one of the best Mesa have ever produced - very classic & smooth imo :mrgreen:

I completely agree with Newysurfer. The 5:50 blues channel is amazing! I use Mesa tubes and SPAX7's in every position so I cannot offer any opinion on the Doug's tube option but what I'm saying is even with stock Mesa tubes, the Blues channel is impressive! I do know some pedals work better with certain amps and not very well with others.... I don't know anything about your Rat pedal. But to me it sounds like a RAT! Ha ha ha. Just kidding. I have never played or heard one of those pedals so I respectfully withhold any opinion on that pedal. I'm just in disbelief that you do not like the Blues channel.

For me, the best Mesa overdriven tone derives from Maverick! IMO, 5:50 doesn't really come close. But, I'll try my best to learn to love it.

 

[gadgetfreak]

I have been scouring this site on tubes and the 5:50. I have enough 12ax7's lying around to experiment and see how Doug's cocktail of suggested starting points can work well and yeild an improvement for express owners.

My question to anyone who has done this, Did you know when you ordered the kit that V2 is actually the 1st gain stage and Doug has a Tungsol for V1, does he really mean put that in V2?

Next one is the one that really get's me, Doug loves the Sovtek LPS for the p.i. slot, Now in the list of tubes He has the Sovtek Lps going in last which is the Reverb driver not the P.I. slot, So did you guys figure this out and switch them? I don't see how the LPS is going to help the reverb driver and a penta is going to help the P.I if it's not balanced.

I am ordering some new tubes from Doug and I really am after some winged C's but after researching a lot of the threads here I can't help but wonder was it just the new tubes in general that wow'd everyone or just luck they sounded good in the spots he said, When I emailed Doug he said use the LPS for the P.I slot, so he said whatever Mesa has the slot labeled just switch accordingly, I am just curious how many of you actually switched V1 and V2 and the reverb and P.I slot with the tubes he actually recommended for those positions.

 

[pusher]

Can someone clarify something for me?

When I visit Doug's site, I can't find a tube kit specifically for the Express; so I end up looking at the Lonestar kit. Is that what you're doing, as well??

Just to share a quick experience. The last time I retubed (Mesa's), I did the tube rolling thing, and after the 3rd 'roll' I got my amp to be dead quiet. Dead. Quiet. It still is right now. But if all the tubes in Doug's kit are unique to their particular slot, you can't really roll them anymore, can you?

So, I'm starting to feel that my tubes are going a little 'soft' lately. Like there's a little too much 'bloom' just before each note. Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

pusher

 

[gadgetfreak]

Pusher hey there, No Doug's tube cocktail isn't on his new site but used to be. If you email or call him he will ask you what you like and give you recommendations as a starting point. They are not meant to go in exact spots specifically in the express because the gain stages are backwards, V2 is 1st gain stage and the V1 and so on. My advice is do what I just did and order some 12ax7's, a mixture of sorts. get yourself a tungsol and maybe a JJ and one other good one and leave your current tubes in. Now with your new tubes take one at a time and start with the 2nd tube in from the right and see how you like it, then move it to the next until you find where it works the best. Just keep repeating that process.

This is what I just bought, winged c 6l6's for powertubes. For pre amp tubes I bought 2 tungsols,JJ high gain, Ruby high gain and a couple LPS's from sovtek and 2 penta tubes, the penta's are the old shuanguan tubes and sound great in the middle positions on higher gain amps. There are different penta's so make sure you buy the right one's, they are out of production and are going fast and cost more now as well, supply and demand. I was able to get my amp dead quite as well with what I had lying around in my tube draw. Currently i'm using a Mullard in V1, JJ in V2 and Sovtek Lps in V4. I can't wait to get my new tubes because my knowledge of what this amp need's is getting good and I believe I can get exactly what I hear in my head for tone. I definately cannot wait to get the winged c's in there, they cost 40 a piece but are so worth it, if you cannot swing those then get the TUngsol 6l6gc str's, they are a nice robust tube as well and work great in these kind of amps

So the moral of the story is no you don't have to follow exactly what other's have posted, just use them as a starting point and you will know when you have your sweet spot going.

 

[Newysurfer]

Pusher hey there, No Doug's tube cocktail isn't on his new site but used to be. If you email or call him he will ask you what you like and give you recommendations as a starting point. They are not meant to go in exact spots specifically in the express because the gain stages are backwards, V2 is 1st gain stage and the V1 and so on. My advice is do what I just did and order some 12ax7's, a mixture of sorts. get yourself a tungsol and maybe a JJ and one other good one and leave your current tubes in. Now with your new tubes take one at a time and start with the 2nd tube in from the right and see how you like it, then move it to the next until you find where it works the best. Just keep repeating that process.

This is what I just bought, winged c 6l6's for powertubes. For pre amp tubes I bought 2 tungsols,JJ high gain, Ruby high gain and a couple LPS's from sovtek and 2 penta tubes, the penta's are the old shuanguan tubes and sound great in the middle positions on higher gain amps. There are different penta's so make sure you buy the right one's, they are out of production and are going fast and cost more now as well, supply and demand. I was able to get my amp dead quite as well with what I had lying around in my tube draw. Currently i'm using a Mullard in V1, JJ in V2 and Sovtek Lps in V4. I can't wait to get my new tubes because my knowledge of what this amp need's is getting good and I believe I can get exactly what I hear in my head for tone. I definately cannot wait to get the winged c's in there, they cost 40 a piece but are so worth it, if you cannot swing those then get the TUngsol 6l6gc str's, they are a nice robust tube as well and work great in these kind of amps

So the moral of the story is no you don't have to follow exactly what other's have posted, just use them as a starting point and you will know when you have your sweet spot going.

Sorry - they are meant to go in exact tube spots and this is what Doug recommended for my 5:50

V1 - Tung-Sol reissue 12AX7 Part ID: TS12AX7
V2 - High gain JJ ECC83S Part ID: JJECC83HG
V3 - Penta Labs 12AX7C Part ID: P12AX7C
V4 - Shuguang 12AX7C9 Part ID: SHUG12AX7C9
V5 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS Part ID: 12AX7LPS


TAD 2x6L6's or
SED 2x6L6

Obviously you don't have to follow Dougs (or anybody's recommendations) but I didn't see the point of asking a tube expert his advice and then not taking it.
Yes, maybe it's a starting point but the Doug cocktail is so great until lots of other people say something else is better then I'm sticking with it.
His tubes did exactly what Doug said they would and that's exactly what I wanted - ie more gain, less noise, smoother all round.

I also don't find re-tubing an amp fun.
I find it a pain in the *** actually & only do it when I know I'll get a gig improvement OR I got a blown tube.

Lots of other guys here have tried different tube combo's & hope that will continue.
Most of em have been shooting for less gain, or something else I'm not interested in, so I've not been tempted to change from Doug's mix so far :mrgreen:

 

[gadgetfreak]

Newysurfer not to be argumentative but I talked to Doug personally and he didn't know that the p.i was V4 and that V2 was the first gain stage so if you take that knowledge he didn't mean for those tubes in each spot. If the Express 5:50 was setup like a traditional tube amp with V1 starting the gain stage and V5 being the P.I slot and last tube then yes put them exactly as listed and then roll them if you please, He clearly states the Sovtek LPS for Phase Inverter and on these amps that is V4.

Whatever works for you is great but if you really want to put them where he meant you might want to swap around V1 and 2 and V4 and 5.

I just talked with him and just got my order today of tubes, I picked up some Sed winged C's and a mixture of 12ax7's. I am going to see if I can make a quick vid on how to put in a tube because as easy as it is there are a couple board members that haven't retubed because they don't feel confident. This amp to me is a breeze to retube, no bias'ing. My fenders I have to keep going back and forth with my multimeter and it is a pain in the ***, this amp is literally like putting in a lightbulb.

 

[Newysurfer]

Newysurfer not to be argumentative but I talked to Doug personally and he didn't know that the p.i was V4 and that V2 was the first gain stage so if you take that knowledge he didn't mean for those tubes in each spot. If the Express 5:50 was setup like a traditional tube amp with V1 starting the gain stage and V5 being the P.I slot and last tube then yes put them exactly as listed and then roll them if you please, He clearly states the Sovtek LPS for Phase Inverter and on these amps that is V4.

Whatever works for you is great but if you really want to put them where he meant you might want to swap around V1 and 2 and V4 and 5.

I just talked with him and just got my order today of tubes, I picked up some Sed winged C's and a mixture of 12ax7's. I am going to see if I can make a quick vid on how to put in a tube because as easy as it is there are a couple board members that haven't retubed because they don't feel confident. This amp to me is a breeze to retube, no bias'ing. My fenders I have to keep going back and forth with my multimeter and it is a pain in the ***, this amp is literally like putting in a lightbulb.

No argument from me Mr Gadget :mrgreen:
Well I haven't spoken to Doug personally.
I just emailed him asking for a tube set that would "reduce noise, add gain and keep same chimy cleans"
He sent back those tube types and V positions to me.
That was over 3 yrs ago and I think I'm the very first 5:50 owner to do this.

I assumed he knew which position was which on the 5:50.
But you're saying he did not.

OK whatever hehe - the tubes & positions he gave me delivered exactly what he said they would so I'm happy..........
And I did get advice from my amp tech on exactly what all the positions were & have a diagram of it - so maybe I did actually stick these tubes in their correct positions.
Can't remember now - it was 3 yrs ago and I'm too lazy to check.
I'll take a peek one day......but hehhehe

Even though the 5:50 is easy to swap tubes on I don't find it fun pulling amps apart and fiddling with fragile tubes that are easy to damage.
The pins holes on mine are very tight and take like 5 mins each of wiggling to remove & insert
I gotta be real careful not to bend the pins
Just a pain in the *** to me - I'd rather go surfing

I'll check out your video and I'm sure it'll be a valuable resource for lots of owners :mrgreen:

 

[gadgetfreak]

Yes I agree that the sockets are tight but that's a good thing, I happen to do this a lot and on many different amp's so maybe I can feel how much pressure I can exert when re-tubing so it's a little quicker but definitely take your time and do what feel's comfortable.

It's always easier removing them than putting them back in unless you have the amp lying down so you can absolutely see the holes, what I do when I can't see is just make sure it's facing the same direction it was when I removed it and give it a little twist to the left and then right until you feel them dropping into the socket holes then just insert tube until it's seated well.

I responded to your other post as well, at this point I think you should just leave your tubes the way you have them, you may not notice much because your already using great tubes. Maybe you will hear a difference in swapping v1 and v2 but it's been 3 years your ears are definitely tuned into those tubes, it's not like night and day swapping them but coming from stock tubes it would have been. Again I just wanted everyone to understand that Doug's recommendation was for a more traditional tube amp that followed the more normal flow of V1 beginning gain stage then V2 etc.. ending with V5 being the P.I. When you retube next time maybe try and see how you fare,ymmv. Cheers mate

 

[gadgetfreak]

Well after 3 days of messing around I settled on this for tubes and let me tell you the E.H 12ax7 was a close second for v1 but I opted for the jj because my e.h is older and the JJ had tighter bass and was brand new. I might try buying one eh just to see how they fare when brand new.

It makes sense because the mesa branded 12ax7a that says russian 2 is an E.H if I'm not mistaken so give mesa credit for tone testing there amps. I just cannot justify the price for mesa branded tubes when you can buy the same tube for less and ask the dealer to make sure it's high gain, or low noise,, whatever you want.

So here is what is staying for now and my tone is sick for what I play,Tons of blues new and old, classic rock(zeppelin,free,bad company etc.) and a lot of music from early 90's.Lots of gain when soloing with analog delay and definitely have to have the sweetest cleans possible because this amp can take pedals amazingly on the clean channel. Basically can play anything with this amp except the heaviest of metal,need an additional pedal to get into that territory but I can get a decent old school metal tone with just eq on amp and gain up and an additional eq pedal.

The hiss my amp made has been reduced to basically 0 if I'm playing with volume below 12 position or in 5 watt mode and that is with gain dimed, if the volume is above you can hear whirring air but not noisy hiss like before and that is because it's a freakin tube amp that is loud as hell and I don't know of any that are silent when volume is up that high with the gain dimed. This is just holding guitar noise I'm talking about, if I'm playing you hear nothing but music. The notes are fat and very articulate with no flubbiness. The cleans I just cannot find one thing negative to say, I would recommend this amp to somebody just for the clean tone, a pedal in front for gain sound's incredible. Some amps take pedal's horribly this one is not one of them as we all know.

I tried nos tubes in v1 and v2, they were Rca 12ax7a's from like 63 and for me I wasn't digging the tone I was getting, not as driving and cutting as the new production tubes imo,, now the nos I have aren't that used low hours so it could be I just have some bum nos tubes but they sound to die for in my deluxe so I don't believe they are dud's. I'm usually all over the nos tube's but I tried a 12at7 and lost something in my tone in the v5 reverb socket definitely lost a lot of verb and the lushness of it. YMMV, maybe try some different nos idk, my amp is singing and that is with fairly cheap new production tubes so I'm gonna stick with em.

Power tubes are Matched set of
S.E.D =c='s

Pre-Amp
V1=JJ Ecc83s
V2=Tungsol reissue
V3=Penta 12ax7
V4=Sovtek Lps
V5=Sovtek Lps

 

[pusher]

Did you get your set from Doug's?

 

[Newysurfer]

Well after 3 days of messing around I settled on this for tubes and let me tell you the E.H 12ax7 was a close second for v1 but I opted for the jj because my e.h is older and the JJ had tighter bass and was brand new. I might try buying one eh just to see how they fare when brand new.

It makes sense because the mesa branded 12ax7a that says russian 2 is an E.H if I'm not mistaken so give mesa credit for tone testing there amps. I just cannot justify the price for mesa branded tubes when you can buy the same tube for less and ask the dealer to make sure it's high gain, or low noise,, whatever you want.

So here is what is staying for now and my tone is sick for what I play,Tons of blues new and old, classic rock(zeppelin,free,bad company etc.) and a lot of music from early 90's.Lots of gain when soloing with analog delay and definitely have to have the sweetest cleans possible because this amp can take pedals amazingly on the clean channel. Basically can play anything with this amp except the heaviest of metal,need an additional pedal to get into that territory but I can get a decent old school metal tone with just eq on amp and gain up and an additional eq pedal.

The hiss my amp made has been reduced to basically 0 if I'm playing with volume below 12 position or in 5 watt mode and that is with gain dimed, if the volume is above you can hear whirring air but not noisy hiss like before and that is because it's a freakin tube amp that is loud as hell and I don't know of any that are silent when volume is up that high with the gain dimed. This is just holding guitar noise I'm talking about, if I'm playing you hear nothing but music. The notes are fat and very articulate with no flubbiness. The cleans I just cannot find one thing negative to say, I would recommend this amp to somebody just for the clean tone, a pedal in front for gain sound's incredible. Some amps take pedal's horribly this one is not one of them as we all know.

I tried nos tubes in v1 and v2, they were Rca 12ax7a's from like 63 and for me I wasn't digging the tone I was getting, not as driving and cutting as the new production tubes imo,, now the nos I have aren't that used low hours so it could be I just have some bum nos tubes but they sound to die for in my deluxe so I don't believe they are dud's. I'm usually all over the nos tube's but I tried a 12at7 and lost something in my tone in the v5 reverb socket definitely lost a lot of verb and the lushness of it. YMMV, maybe try some different nos idk, my amp is singing and that is with fairly cheap new production tubes so I'm gonna stick with em.

Power tubes are Matched set of
S.E.D =c='s

Pre-Amp
V1=JJ Ecc83s
V2=Tungsol reissue
V3=Penta 12ax7
V4=Sovtek Lps
V5=Sovtek Lps

great thanks Gadget - nice to have a real tube expert on here now.
There's another guy here who keeps trying different speakers and knows all about em so its great to have you on board for tubes.

hehehe want a laugh - In Australia Mesa charge $70 for their 2nd rate chinese power tubes and $55 for their 12ax7s. - yeah EACH hehe

 

[gadgetfreak]

Holy **** mate that's crazy on the prices. Yes I always get my tubes from Doug, He is in the state right next to me so I can have them in 1 day from ordering, plus I've had tubes that were questionable and he immediately took them back and gave me what I wanted, didn't just give me replacements let me choose something else, he's the man.

I know about Australia you poor guys get a beat down on good's coming in but you live in a beautiful place.

I'm totally into speakers and all that goes on with modding guitars as well, I don't think I will change my speaker though in the 5:50 it sounds great and I have no issue's. It's been broken in well and that's what you want in a good speaker.

I have however on other amp's primarily fender's swapped many of a speaker.


Hey your recording's sound great Newysurfer,, I went to your page. Did you record all those yourself at home? Who's the hot bird holding the Deluxe I have the epi sheraton as well but not tricked out with that beautiful bridge you have, I really like that and think it look's great. I have gibson's but my favorite guitar is my 98 epiphone standard plus all modded with 50's vintage wiring,57 classic/+,switchcraft jack and toggle switch,,it's the fastest playing les paul I've ever played. I really love old epiphones,just get rid of the electronics and you have a great piece of wood for 1/4 the price.

 

[Newysurfer]

Holy sh!t mate that's crazy on the prices. Yes I always get my tubes from Doug, He is in the state right next to me so I can have them in 1 day from ordering, plus I've had tubes that were questionable and he immediately took them back and gave me what I wanted, didn't just give me replacements let me choose something else, he's the man.

I know about Australia you poor guys get a beat down on good's coming in but you live in a beautiful place.

I'm totally into speakers and all that goes on with modding guitars as well, I don't think I will change my speaker though in the 5:50 it sounds great and I have no issue's. It's been broken in well and that's what you want in a good speaker.

I have however on other amp's primarily fender's swapped many of a speaker.


Hey your recording's sound great Newysurfer,, I went to your page. Did you record all those yourself at home? Who's the hot bird holding the Deluxe I have the epi sheraton as well but not tricked out with that beautiful bridge you have, I really like that and think it look's great. I have gibson's but my favorite guitar is my 98 epiphone standard plus all modded with 50's vintage wiring,57 classic/+,switchcraft jack and toggle switch,,it's the fastest playing les paul I've ever played. I really love old epiphones,just get rid of the electronics and you have a great piece of wood for 1/4 the price.

hehe thanks Mr Gadget :mrgreen:
yeah did all those recordings in my home studio. I play all instruments except sing.
And they're all done thru a mic'ed 5:50
Mostly covers to begin with to learn recording techniques and will start soon on lots of originals we're doin in my new band.

Yeah I mod most of my guitars too.
The Sheraton has had new Classic 57 PUPs, all new electrics, locking tuners, graphite nut & a Stetsbar.
Hard to tell the diff now between it and a real ES-335.
Put new graphite nut & saddles & new locking tuners in the SG.
New Lace Sensors in the Strat.

Only guitar I never needed to mod was my Gretsch Jet 6131 - just perfect stock and my No 1 for most things.
I've owned LPs too - luv em.

On 5:50 speakers - I got a custom 2x12 closed cab made with V30's & wired it so I can use either...
cab alone
cab & combo speaker together = 3 speakers
I prefer the v30s but it could just be cause it's a 2x12 closed cab. Either speaker is great for this amp imo

The hot girl is a friend here in Australia Ayeth from Philippines - she luvs posing for pics hehe :mrgreen:

 

[gadgetfreak]

I will have to send you some pics, we think alike on the guitar mod's. I have graphite saddles,nut and tree on a couple guitars. One of my les pauls I put the 57 classics in, love them.. I basically have the same mods and some others. I don't own a gretch yet but that is on the list. I have had money in hand and played a bunch of them but haven't played the ONE yet. I want to get into recording music myself but I am so anal retentive I don't know if I would ever get something done, in the past I have been completely ocd when recording.

I think that the closed back does have a lot to do with you liking it. Don't get me wrong I like me a v30 but closed cabs are great for this amp. How did you wire it so you can have all three? I bet that must push some air in 50 or 5 watt mode huh...

 

[Newysurfer]

I will have to send you some pics, we think alike on the guitar mod's. I have graphite saddles,nut and tree on a couple guitars. One of my les pauls I put the 57 classics in, love them.. I basically have the same mods and some others. I don't own a gretch yet but that is on the list. I have had money in hand and played a bunch of them but haven't played the ONE yet. I want to get into recording music myself but I am so anal retentive I don't know if I would ever get something done, in the past I have been completely ocd when recording.

I think that the closed back does have a lot to do with you liking it. Don't get me wrong I like me a v30 but closed cabs are great for this amp. How did you wire it so you can have all three? I bet that must push some air in 50 or 5 watt mode huh...

For the cab & combo together option a 16 ohm cab will do it.
You mismatch it to the 8 ohm output amp.
Mesa in the manual actually encourage experimenting with mismatches & no damage is risked.
Reduces overall output a touch - my amp tech calculated output would be about 43 watts but opined I'd be hard pressed to hear any output difference.
Audible outcome was actually a much fuller, louder sounding amp cause the spread is much better with 3 speakers.
On stage you can use the combo behind you as a monitor/amplifier & then the Cab on other side of stage :mrgreen:

I sent you a PM wif my email address too

 

[melodiusthunk]

Well after 3 days of messing around I settled on this for tubes and let me tell you the E.H 12ax7 was a close second for v1 but I opted for the jj because my e.h is older and the JJ had tighter bass and was brand new. I might try buying one eh just to see how they fare when brand new.

It makes sense because the mesa branded 12ax7a that says russian 2 is an E.H if I'm not mistaken so give mesa credit for tone testing there amps. I just cannot justify the price for mesa branded tubes when you can buy the same tube for less and ask the dealer to make sure it's high gain, or low noise,, whatever you want.

So here is what is staying for now and my tone is sick for what I play,Tons of blues new and old, classic rock(zeppelin,free,bad company etc.) and a lot of music from early 90's.Lots of gain when soloing with analog delay and definitely have to have the sweetest cleans possible because this amp can take pedals amazingly on the clean channel. Basically can play anything with this amp except the heaviest of metal,need an additional pedal to get into that territory but I can get a decent old school metal tone with just eq on amp and gain up and an additional eq pedal.

The hiss my amp made has been reduced to basically 0 if I'm playing with volume below 12 position or in 5 watt mode and that is with gain dimed, if the volume is above you can hear whirring air but not noisy hiss like before and that is because it's a freakin tube amp that is loud as hell and I don't know of any that are silent when volume is up that high with the gain dimed. This is just holding guitar noise I'm talking about, if I'm playing you hear nothing but music. The notes are fat and very articulate with no flubbiness. The cleans I just cannot find one thing negative to say, I would recommend this amp to somebody just for the clean tone, a pedal in front for gain sound's incredible. Some amps take pedal's horribly this one is not one of them as we all know.

I tried nos tubes in v1 and v2, they were Rca 12ax7a's from like 63 and for me I wasn't digging the tone I was getting, not as driving and cutting as the new production tubes imo,, now the nos I have aren't that used low hours so it could be I just have some bum nos tubes but they sound to die for in my deluxe so I don't believe they are dud's. I'm usually all over the nos tube's but I tried a 12at7 and lost something in my tone in the v5 reverb socket definitely lost a lot of verb and the lushness of it. YMMV, maybe try some different nos idk, my amp is singing and that is with fairly cheap new production tubes so I'm gonna stick with em.

Power tubes are Matched set of
S.E.D =c='s

Pre-Amp
V1=JJ Ecc83s
V2=Tungsol reissue
V3=Penta 12ax7
V4=Sovtek Lps
V5=Sovtek Lps

I recently re-tubed my 5:50 preamp (except for the reverb driver, which I left unchanged) one tube at a time using Mesa SPAX7's. Beginning with V2, noticed that CH2 hiss was significantly reduced, then V1 & V3 (no great change) & thean at V4 got rid of a microphonic squeal (not a loud squeal, but always there). Biggest improvement though came from replacing the power tubes, which were at least 18 months old and had seen some Fuzz into Univibe abuse under my command, with new MESA branded replacements. Got rid of a resonant rattle that sounded like a bucket of ball bearings rolling around a metal roof whenever I played certain notes at load volume.

Here in the USA, the SPAX7's are only about 4$ more than the regular AX7's Mesa sells; don't know off hand how this compares to other domestic retailers, but Newysurfer's Mesa price shock down-under would definitely motivate me to look at alternates. Here in the US, I decided that I have better uses for my time.

 

[SteveB]

This thread was very helpful to me in thinking about whether and how to address the hissing from my 5:25 plus. I decided to contact Doug and decided to order the preamp tone kit and power tubes he recommended. I then switched his V1/V2 and V4/V5 recommendation per the suggestions in this thread. So I ended up with:
- V1 Ruby high gain JJECC83
- V2 Tungsol 12AX7
- V3 Penta 12AX7
- V4 Sovtek 12AX7 LPS
- V5 Penta 12AX7
- V6/V7 Matched Ruby EL84CZ

To my ear the hissing is meaningfully reduced, though the amp is certainly not "dead quiet" as others have experienced. But separately I have found that running the 5-band EQ is a lot quieter than using the preset countour knob or having the EQ off entirely. So the combination of the new tubes with the graphic sliders engaged has made the amp reasonably quiet. And the tone is still great (I mainly use the clean voicing, and sometimes crunch or blues).

I also ran an experiment to install the tubes exactly as Doug recommended (without switching V1/V2 and V4/V5) but it didn't improve things. In fact it sounded a little noisier to me.

Thanks everyone for the constructive tips.

 

[Newysurfer]

This thread was very helpful to me in thinking about whether and how to address the hissing from my 5:25 plus. I decided to contact Doug and decided to order the preamp tone kit and power tubes he recommended. I then switched his V1/V2 and V4/V5 recommendation per the suggestions in this thread. So I ended up with:
- V1 Ruby high gain JJECC83
- V2 Tungsol 12AX7
- V3 Penta 12AX7
- V4 Sovtek 12AX7 LPS
- V5 Penta 12AX7
- V6/V7 Matched Ruby EL84CZ

To my ear the hissing is meaningfully reduced, though the amp is certainly not "dead quiet" as others have experienced. But separately I have found that running the 5-band EQ is a lot quieter than using the preset countour knob or having the EQ off entirely. So the combination of the new tubes with the graphic sliders engaged has made the amp reasonably quiet. And the tone is still great (I mainly use the clean voicing, and sometimes crunch or blues).

I also ran an experiment to install the tubes exactly as Doug recommended (without switching V1/V2 and V4/V5) but it didn't improve things. In fact it sounded a little noisier to me.

Thanks everyone for the constructive tips.

Ok - it seems the 5:25 reacts differently to noise with its EL84s against 6L6s in the 5:50.
I think the changed 6L6's gave most of the noise reduction on my 5:50.
But besides for the noise reduction did the new tubes deliver overall tone improvements as well ???

 

[SteveB]

I actually wasn't seeking any specific tone improvements. My objective was to maintain the range of great tones from the amp while reducing the hissing. I mentioned that to Doug. To my ear the tone quality of the amp has been maintained - no degradation in any way. The voicings that I use - mainly clean but also blues and crunch - all sound great to me. I can't say they sound better or a lot different than before, but I wasn't looking for that.

To your point about the power tubes, it might be interesting to swap the old power tubes back in and judge the difference with that change only. I will report back if I get to it. They were a lot easier to change than the preamp tubes.