Mark V 90 watt tube rolling

[user 83127]

Not sure I can answer your question. I barely ever used the RHY2 channel on the Mark IVb as mine was a combo and it was too bass driven. I mostly used RHY1 on a few occasions and mostly ran the lead channel. Having to share midrange and bass between RHY1 and RHY2 was a pain in the ***. Reminded me of the Mark III, RHY2 never made any sonic sense in the combo and was not a good match for the MC90 speaker. Muddy or too much bottom end. I did have a day to mess with a new 412 cab and the Mark IVB. That was the only time the RHY2 actually sounded good. I sold the Mark IVB so there was no point in backing out of the deal. I had more interest in the Royal Atlantic and the Roadster at that time.

I would personally inquire about the Mark IVA vs Mark IVB. Look for Brandon Breeze. He has both. He has a huge inventory of videos on youtube he has done over the years. He recently joined the forums.
At lease he can describe the differences in the RHY2 channels between the A and B version.
https://boogieforum.com/threads/mesa-mark-series-comparisons-c-3s-4s-vs-more.87330/#post-535553

found my answer..someone else on another forum felt the same way I did and it is R2 on IVB for me!!!

 

[bandit2013]

Sorry I was little if any help on this. At least you found what you were looking for.

 

[user 83127]

Sorry I was little if any help on this. At least you found what you were looking for.

Honestly dude, you are really usually so much help. Tone is subjective? How very ******* Mesa Boogie of you to answer that!!!!

 

[bandit2013]

Say what you want. I do not represent any company affiliated with music gear. I design products for heating and air movement. IAQ indoor air quality. Just the average mesa enthusiast, nothing more or less. Mark iv was a good amp as was the mark 3. With both, I only ran the lead channel. Other amps that offer full separation of controls I may bother using them. Mostly get what I need with roll back on guitar volume. I tried to help. I do not have all the answers.

 

[user 83127]

Say what you want. I do not represent any company affiliated with music gear. I design products for heating and air movement. IAQ indoor air quality. Just the average mesa enthusiast, nothing more or less. Mark iv was a good amp as was the mark 3. With both, I only ran the lead channel. Other amps that offer full separation of controls I may bother using them. Mostly get what I need with roll back on guitar volume. I tried to help. I do not have all the answers.

I was playing with you..I thought you could handle it...my bad...I really didnt mean to insult you.

 

[domct203]

yeah..telling me to go to another part of the forum answers my question and is helpful...no...
This reminds me of calling Mesa Boogie...I ordered a 30 foot unshielded cable...for a footswitch..and got a 20 foot shielded (I actually ordered 2..I got one thirty foot unshielded .and one 20 foot shielded_)...I informed them I needed ONE 30 foot cable unshielded..they told me they only had 20 foot shielded..I said i didnt need that I needed 30 foot unshielded...they said they only had 30 foot unshielded..I said..EUREKA>>>THEY HAVE IT>>>SEND THAT>>>>>and I got a 20 foot shielded....after three tries i finally said screw it and used two of the shielded cables for my footswitch (they were shorter and shielded, but they were free, because Mesa kept getting it wrong)(I NEVER DID get the thirty foot unshielded)...kinda like asking for an answer to my question here!!!!

Not everyone viewing the MKV forum has the answer to your MKIV questions.

I suggested you go to the section of the forum where you may have found that answer.

You didn’t have any problem going to a different forum to find your answer, I don’t get your anger towards me for suggesting the exact same thing you did anyway.

Seems it was a helpful post from me after all as you found your answer elsewhere, as I suggested.

You’re welcome.

 

[tbonesullivan]

Jeez. This thread has really taken a turn. I almost want to hunt down a Mark IV just so I can figure out what people are talking about.

To get back on track however, I have honestly found that the Mark V 90, especially on the high gain channels, doesn't really respond to a lot of tube rolling. Maybe my speaker isn't broken in enough for it, but in general I found much more use putting different tubes in the lower gain channels, input drivers, and phase inverters than in any of the high gain stages. Looking at the schematics can help you determine what function a tube is doing, and if it's just a cold clipper, I'm not sure if you get much of a difference.

 

[rarebitusa]

Jeez. This thread has really taken a turn. I almost want to hunt down a Mark IV just so I can figure out what people are talking about.

To get back on track however, I have honestly found that the Mark V 90, especially on the high gain channels, doesn't really respond to a lot of tube rolling. Maybe my speaker isn't broken in enough for it, but in general I found much more use putting different tubes in the lower gain channels, input drivers, and phase inverters than in any of the high gain stages. Looking at the schematics can help you determine what function a tube is doing, and if it's just a cold clipper, I'm not sure if you get much of a difference.

Curious tbone what model speaker?

 

[tbonesullivan]

Curious tbone what model speaker?

Just a combo with the standard C90, and a wicker grille.

 

[user 83127]

Jeez. This thread has really taken a turn. I almost want to hunt down a Mark IV just so I can figure out what people are talking about.

To get back on track however, I have honestly found that the Mark V 90, especially on the high gain channels, doesn't really respond to a lot of tube rolling. Maybe my speaker isn't broken in enough for it, but in general I found much more use putting different tubes in the lower gain channels, input drivers, and phase inverters than in any of the high gain stages. Looking at the schematics can help you determine what function a tube is doing, and if it's just a cold clipper, I'm not sure if you get much of

Not everyone viewing the MKV forum has the answer to your MKIV questions.

I suggested you go to the section of the forum where you may have found that answer.

You didn’t have any problem going to a different forum to find your answer, I don’t get your anger towards me for suggesting the exact same thing you did anyway.

Seems it was a helpful post from me after all as you found your answer elsewhere, as I suggested.

You’re welcome.

YOU KNOW...I WENT to that section of the forum...and there is NO ONE THERE...there are really BARELY TWENTY mentions of the IV that come back in a search and your advice is HORSESHIT>>>I GOT MORE ACTION ON MY QUESTION HERE!!! (although as stated..what I got was basically the standard fare for Mesa and their forums..I got my answer from a MARSHALL AMP FORUM)..which they frankly DIDNT MINCE WORDS AND PLAY GAMES>>>YMMV>>>IHMO>>>TASTE AND TONE IS SUBJECTIVE AND WE AT MESA
ARE SO PATHETIC AT MAKING AMPS WE DONT WARRANTY SOUND OR TONE...even though we market the V as the HISTORY OF BOOGIE TONES IN ONE AMP!!!!!!!!!!!
EVER notice NOT ONE SOLDANO USER says my SLO doesnt sound like an SLO>>>WONDER WHY?

 

[domct203]

found my answer..someone else on another forum felt the same way I did and it is R2 on IVB for me!!!

YOU KNOW...I WENT to that section of the forum...and there is NO ONE THERE...there are really BARELY TWENTY mentions of the IV that come back in a search and your advice is HORSESHIT>>>I GOT MORE ACTION ON MY QUESTION HERE!!! (although as stated..what I got was basically the standard fare for Mesa and their forums..I got my answer from a MARSHALL AMP FORUM)..which they frankly DIDNT MINCE WORDS AND PLAY GAMES>>>YMMV>>>IHMO>>>TASTE AND TONE IS SUBJECTIVE AND WE AT MESA
ARE SO PATHETIC AT MAKING AMPS WE DONT WARRANTY SOUND OR TONE...even though we market the V as the HISTORY OF BOOGIE TONES IN ONE AMP!!!!!!!!!!!
EVER notice NOT ONE SOLDANO USER says my SLO doesnt sound like an SLO>>>WONDER WHY?

Do you ever read what you post?

One time it’s you found your answer on another forum, then you say you got more action here after complaining that nobody here was answering your question and that Mesa makes pathetic amps but it’s “R2 on MIVB for me”….

I’m done with your flame war nonsense. I don’t know what your problem is and why you are so angry with me, but I’m not taking your bait.

Congratulations, you are the first person to make it on my ignore list here, and I’ve been on the board since 2007.

Dom

 

[bandit2013]

Do you think I should go with a different color when ordering the STR448's? Grey, like you say, is the next step cooler. I think I can go with another color up or down safely, yes?

My bad, I did not respond to your message. Depends on how the amp sounds as it is. Trial and error tends to become an expensive endeavor. I wound up doing just that with the Mark VII. The str445 greens were not doing it, so I got some STR445 in yellows, that helped. Red will have less tube distortion and more headroom. Yellow is a bit more distortion and green is much more as this is supposed to be the center point, grey is a step or two more distortion less headroom and blue is hard to predict what it would sound like in a 6L6GC tubes. I have seen the blues more so with the EL34 tubes than with the 6L6GC. When I got the second set of STR448, they came in red bias color. Did not favor well in the JP2C. The amp lost all of its teeth with the reds. I did get some yellows recently but have not tried them in the JP2C. Perhaps there is a difference with the Shumacker transformers. That gets over my head when considering the transfer characteristics, If it is that bright and fizzy sounding not sure how to address that. You also said you needed to change preamp tubes to compensate and the fizz went away after some time but now it is back when you tried the STR448 tubes.

Do you still have the stock Mesa preamp tubes? I would probably give them another shot and go back to the STR443 if those are still usable. Then change to the STR448 and see how that changes things. I tried to look for some videos that are more recent, dated after the change in transformer manufacturers. Nothing. I can find videos in the 2021 time frame but there is no reference to the model year or what tubes they are using other than generic information. If the Change in transformers make the amp sound more of this or that, it can be challenging to figure out what you need to change tube wise to compensate for undesired characteristics. What may work well in the 2016, and sound bad in the 2021, I have no other thing to say but sorry for the bad advice.

I found with the 2016 JP2C version, other preamp tubes did not work out very well. I have run a few NOS tubes out of curiosity, JAN/GE 12AX7WC were too hi-fi sounding. More sterile than great. RFT, was not sure where to use it, it was on the dark side in V3 or V4. Never tried it in V1 yet so may go with that. JAN/Phillips 12AT7, well it darkened up the amp when I tried it in the phase inverter. It was a reduction in output volume as well. At the time I explored different preamp tubes was when I only had the STR440 tubes available.

Considering the new cabinet, I also bought a new V212 last year before I got the Mark VII, I was waiting for the cream and black jute faceplate to become available but got tired of waiting. I did not hear much of a difference between the new V212 I bought in 2023 and the one I had since 2017 when I tried it out with the 2016 JP2C. I would not doubt there is some change due to break in but I have not noticed much of a change. I am getting old so perhaps my hearing is not as good as it used to be.

 

[Darkstar2]

I do have the stock preamp JJ's, as well as 2 SPX tubes. I may try to put the original 6L6's back in, perhaps they were properly broken in and that's what I liked about the tone... I'll report back!

 

[bandit2013]

It is always good to have a point of reference to return to if you had started changing preamp tubes.
Fizzy, JP2C should not be fizzy unless you are using the STR440 power tubes.

However, the yellow bias color on the STR448 would seem a bit low. JP2C works great if you get some of that power tube saturation going. I have the yellows, wanted to run them in the Mark VII as the greys were too much for that amp. The Mark VII has more power tube distortion due to the simul-class and can get swamped easily. Going a bit colder for that amp helps. JP2C, Class A/B, hotter tube works better. Not sure about blue though. Is that what the STR443 are?

 

[Darkstar2]

Yes, the original tubes that came with the amp 2 years ago were STR 443 Blu's.

 

[jnoel64]

I am another who could just not bond with the MKV90, well at least in terms of channel 3. The massive "mod" thread regarding the AT7 is what got me interested in purchasing a V. So, I did, and no matter what I did, I just couldn't get what I expected (after reading the entire thread over and over). So, I sold my V and got a JP2C instead. MUCH happier! Yes, tone IS subjective and we all like what we like. The guy I sold my V to just loves the amp. More power to him. I have what works for me, and so does he.

Now I am GASsing for some TADs. I have a couple, but need more, lol!

 

[bandit2013]

I probably should have stayed out of this thread. There may be something to gain from preamp tube rolling the Mark V90. The model year mine was made was 2012. It was more ice pick than anything on tweed, edge and most of CH3. Something is not right with the amp as it has been that way since day one. For some reason or another, I wanted to figure it out and possibly learn something or two. I learned a lot but only to realize it is probably better to give up on the V than to continue with it. I still have it, just never got around to its disposal (either through a bargain sale or dumpster). I could just give it away but I need to find someone I hate or dislike but there is a chance it could come back.

Aside from any negative comments or feelings I have on the V90 in general, in most cases the amp is good and just some minor changes are needed. One should explore the different preamp tubes in the 12AX7 family from short, medium and long plate types. Sometimes things improve if one is not just seeking the highest gain possible. Different tubes in the 12AX7 family have different gain characteristics. Some may have a more scooped tone when used in a different tube position. Tube rolling is more of a personal goal than say more general one tube fits all deal. Mark V90 does respond to different preamp tubes and some Mesa amps may not change much at all. It is not a bad amp, it is just not for me.

 

[sherrillsml]

I probably should have stayed out of this thread. There may be something to gain from preamp tube rolling the Mark V90. The model year mine was made was 2012. It was more ice pick than anything on tweed, edge and most of CH3. Something is not right with the amp as it has been that way since day one. For some reason or another, I wanted to figure it out and possibly learn something or two. I learned a lot but only to realize it is probably better to give up on the V than to continue with it. I still have it, just never got around to its disposal (either through a bargain sale or dumpster). I could just give it away but I need to find someone I hate or dislike but there is a chance it could come back.

Aside from any negative comments or feelings I have on the V90 in general, in most cases the amp is good and just some minor changes are needed. One should explore the different preamp tubes in the 12AX7 family from short, medium and long plate types. Sometimes things improve if one is not just seeking the highest gain possible. Different tubes in the 12AX7 family have different gain characteristics. Some may have a more scooped tone when used in a different tube position. Tube rolling is more of a personal goal than say more general one tube fits all deal. Mark V90 does respond to different preamp tubes and some Mesa amps may not change much at all. It is not a bad amp, it is just not for me.

Exactly the same experience with my May of 2010 V90 I purchased new in that year. Two years ago I gave up and have been extremely happy with my Kemper Stage. I keep lurking around here in case someone finally discovers a "fix" for my V that resides in my closet. I purchased a new S.O.B. in 1980 that in some ways blows the door off of my particular V which is a real shame considering the money I spent on the V.

 

[bandit2013]

That may be the reason I am holding on to mine as well. Mine was built 2012 but has a 2009 date on the PCB. That just may be the year the logo was registered for Mesa Boogie. I do not recall seeing a revision number on it. It has the tone stack change for CH3 as that was done in 2010, but when exactly I am uncertain. That was brought up in the saturation mod thread, but the OP removed their content. That brings forth some curiosity if there were any running changes to components or mods to the main board that have been done for improvements. It is not well published or mentioned. I assume that not all of the Mark V90 are garbage, they would not have been selling for so long if they were.