2:90 poweramp NOISE issue

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STUART

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Any ideas??.....
Problemo as soon i switch from standby after pre heating valves i get a sort of wind blowing noise through 1x12 cab , its similar to a loose lead or dodgy connection ,all leads checked fine etc pod pro pre amp okay too works fine with MK 4 short head
Definitely stemming from 2:90 amp
After around two or three minutes there appears to be a slight pop from the cab then a little increase in volume and output fine
Maybe a capacitor issue ??? not too sure here

Any help appreciated !!!!

Stu
 
Hi,

How old is your 2:90, so your saying that its noisy then after a few minutes
you hear a *pop* then the noise goes away? or is it lower?

Have you tried swapping Preamp tubes or Power tubes?
 
Hi Stuart,

Does this noise ocurr in both channels of your 2:90. If it is on both channels it would indicate a problem in the amp that is common to both channels like the power supply. If it only happens on one channel it could be a tube. In this case you can start swapping pairs of tubes between channels to isolate the bad tube. It could be something else but this is a reasonable place to start. Hope this is helpful. Post back and let us know how things are going.

Gary
 
Thanks for input guys !!
Preamp tubes are Tungsram ECC83s these have not done a lot of hours though ...
Just replaced recently too JJ 6L6 to power section
I think this problem is only through the one channel as there is a slight increase in volume after a few mins and then the sound becomes balanced
This blowing noise like a wind, is quite faint through my 1x12 cab and only appears for a few minutes,then as if something has heated up or a voltage increase maybe ,then its gone and 2:90 works flawless.
Had two new vol pots recently fitted but these are original Mesa parts and seem ok now previous were pretty well worn .
I got some valves here so will give it a try swapping over
 
Tried swapping valves still no difference ... :? preamp and power
Also notice that reducing the 2:90 volume to zero when this thunderstorm type rumble (not as loud tho )noise appears makes no apparent difference to this problem the noises are still there.
Had this similar noise couple of years back with a jmi vox ac30 too......seems bit odd
Thinking maybe a dodgy cap ???

Anyone ....
 
Hi Stuart,

What you have done does narrow things down. Below are some links to the schematic of the 2:90.

http://www.tubefreak.com/2901.gif

http://www.tubefreak.com/290pwr.gif

There is another schematic but is seems to be a minor variation of the first schematic.

You have eliminated many potential causes of the problem. First, since the noise is in only one channel the power supply should be able to be eliminated as the cause as well as all components in the other channel. So far something like 60 - 70% of your amplifier is ok. Swapping tubes has eliminated the tubes as the problem. Next by turning the level channel down all the way and not affecting the noise the input stage (V1a on the first schematic) and its associated components should be able to be eliminated as the problem. This leaves the circuit associated with V3 (or V2 if it is in the other channel) and the output stage. To test if it is something to do with V3 you can remove this tube, turn on the amplifier and see if the noise is present. If the noise goes away it would be associated with this stage. If the noise is still there then it is more likely in the output stage.

If the noise is around V3 (or V2 if the other channel) then you can try changing the presence control and mode switches to see if the feedback loop components make any difference. These are the resistors and capacitors connected to the connection marked FB.

What all this will do will give you an idea of where to look. A prior post did suggest a cold solder joint. This is worth while to look for. Look in the area indicated by the procedures given above. In another thread I was working with someone who ended up touching up most of his solder joints in his amp and fixed his problem. A shotgun approach. Here I am suggesting you work in the area that seems to be causing the problem.

If you are comfortable with working on electronics probing the components in the suspect area with an insulated probe and noticing any changes in the character of the noise may give you insight into what is the cause. If you aren't experienced at this I would leave it alone. There are dangerous if not lethal voltages in these amplifiers. If that is not enough to deter you not wanting to damage the amplifier by doing the wrong thing should.

This should give you an idea of where to go next. There are further things to be done but from here you would start to need test equipment as well as some experience in how to use this equipment. Hope this is helpful. Post your results. We all learn from these things.

Gary
 
Great suggestions blueracer. One other thing I would suggest is changing out the tungsram tubes for a new production 12ax7 like a JJ ecc83 and see if it helps they could be going microphonic or whistling in 290.

From my experiance NOS (tungsram, sylvania, mullard ect) 12ax7's don't
mix well in the phase driver section of boogie power amps.

Let us know your progress! 8)
 
Thanks !! guys that info is excellent .
Schematics appreciated too

I have now replaced the three 12ax7 valves with Mesa branded
12ax7-a russian 2..... problem still there :?

Just wondering if the power valves are getting a good connection here guys with the base sockets ..
On further inspection it appears that one 6L6 has a poor fit (quite loose) onto the base , probably by various valve changes over a period of time which has caused the base connections onto the power valve pins to open up considerably and yes its from channel A.....
Goin to give them a clean and tighten those connections onto the power valve pins ..


Dont see any cold solder joints either yet but sometimes best to check more than once
 
Still got problems here noise from channel starting to occur more frequently now :cry: Channel B is the dodgy one originally thought it was A my mistake !!
Swapped valves around cleaned terminals ,connections etc dont see any cold solder joints on circuit board
Any one know if a cap could cause this type of problem maybe a filter cap ,
I was on the understanding that they either work or dont .....
 
Hey Stuart,

Sorry to hear that you still are having problems. Did you try removing V2 and powering the amp without the tube in. If not do try this. If the noise goes away it would say that your power tubes are ok. If it is still there then it would most likely be in the power section. Unfortunately you are still at the stage of localizing the problem. I doubt that it is a filter cap since the noise is only ocurring in one channel. It is worth while to confirm that this is the case by checking the A channel while the amp is noisy in the B channel. If both channels have the problem this completely changes things and what to look for. You did indicate that turning the gain control all the way down did not affect the noise which would eliminate V1 as the problem. I would try these things and then post back what is happening and we can go from there. Best of luck in tracking this down.

Gary
 
Thanks !! Gary
Yep definitely channel B only giving concern here so did replace v2 (ch B) tube with no sucess
Yes also the volume pot when turned to zero or mid position on this channel makes no difference noise still present....
Any ideas what V3 is doing
 
Hi Stuart,

What I am suggesting is not to replace V2 but to remove the tube from the unit and power it up without this tube in its socket. If the noise is comming from something associated with V2 this should stop it at this point. This should not hurt your amplifier to do this. If the noise is still there then it would most probably be something to do with the power stage. Try this and post back any results. Again this is NOT a tube swap it is take the tube out and power up. Hope this is clear and helpful.

Gary

BTW V3 is part of channel A so it should not be a problem (if the schematic is correct).
 
Hi Gary
Excellent info much appreciated here... 8)
Will post back a result with regards to your instructions..

Cheers !!

Stu
 
Powered up amp and came out of standby after removing V2 ( middle tube ) from board , this killed any amplified noises from channel B.
This must prove then that blowing like noises not coming through power stages then and fault lies around the V2 tube ?
The noises are quite irregular , they do not resonate or have a waveform like appearance and can disappear and then return at anytime when playing..

Stu.
 
Hey Stu,

Your doing good. You have now got this noise tihing down to a hand full of parts. If you look at the first schematic these parts are the group under the label FB that are between V1 and V3. There is another column of parts just to the right of this that it could be also. A slight aside here is that these parts will actually be between V1 and V2 because your problem is in channel B.

There are a few more things you can do to try to isolate the noise without going inside the amp. In the column of parts under FB you should see a bunch of switches. These go to your voicing selects which are labled Modern, Deep and Lead 1/2. These are activated in the back of your amp by a common footswitch such as used for reverb. Any footswitch that is simple on/off will do. Use the foot switch to switch each of the functions (Modern/Deep/Lead 1/2). See if this makes any difference in the noise. Also you should vary the channel B presence and see if it changes the noise. Try these things and post your results. You are getting closer and closer to the problem.

Gary
 
Gary
Done a few checks on the three voicings Modern, Deep and Lead 1/2..
Dont have a footswitch handy so used 1/4 lead with tip to ground to activate each voicing in turn
Heres what was found :

MODERN : perfect no noise at all when switching (can hear internal switch contacts make and break )

DEEP : noise when contact with lead tip to ground and when released from ground(this only affects channel A also can hear internal switch contacts make and break )

1/2 DRIVE : loudest when switching ( this is exactly the noise i get when fault starts like a lead being pulled from an amp when running on volume, (cannot hear any internal switch contacts make or break with this voicing either??)

I noted also that when this noise fault starts there is a boom , then the 6L6 power valves blue glow starts to flicker along with the wind like noise that follows this boom
To stop all noise i now place the tip to ground and place the 2:90 into half drive this seems to cure.

Can the 2:90 be switching itself between full and half power roughly at random ?

Stu
 
Channel B when switching to and from 1/2 drive does not decrease or increase volumes at cabs
Noticeable differences with Channel A though............


and the band played "stroll on" !!
 
Hi Stuart,

This is excellent. I would say basically you have found the problem but not the cause of the problem. What I think is going on is that LDR1 is not being powered on all the way. This might be caused by the LDR going bad or the capacitor that is across the LDR control being flackey. Because there is no change in volume for channel B it could be either of these items or maybe something entirely different. As before we try things to narrow down the possible causes.

Now for the capacitor and LDR I am talking about. Look at the second schematic. Towards the bottom are a bunch of transistors. To the right you will find the 1/2 DR jack input. Now go to the right of this input and up a little bit and find the resitor R372. Below it is a diode, LDR1, and a capacitor that is across it with a value of 100uf. If that capacitor is going bad it will partially short the diode and not allow it to turn on fully. If the LDR is going bad this could also cause the noise. There are a few ways to proceed.

First procedure is to touch up the solder joints around these parts. I would stick with the capacitor, LDR1 and R372. If this works you are done.

Second procedure. If touching up the solder joints did not stop the noise then remove the capacitor and see if it stops the noise. If it does then buy a replacement and put it in. It will not hurt your amplifier to run without this capacitor. What the capacitor is doing is slowing down the transition from on to off (or off to on) of that diode. This stops the amplifier from making noises when you are switching the 1/2 DR function. If the capacitor does not stop the problem then you can replace the LDR and see if this does it although I would post back before trying to replace the LDR. This part is going to be harder to find than the capacitor.

Third procedure. Use a voltmeter to measure the voltage at the junction of LDR1, the capacitor and R372. Do this without using your shorting cord in the 1/2 DR control. The voltage should be about 1.4 volts. If it is lower than this and wondering around, particularly when the nosie is present it would indicate the capacitor is bad. When the noise goes away see if the voltage has risen. If it has this is further indication of the capacitor being bad. If the voltage stays the same with or without the noise it is more likely the LDR. Now ground the cord that is attached to 1/2 DR input. The voltage should go up to about 3.2 volts.

If you are good with electronics and have the voltmeter then the third procdure is the way to go as it allows you to look at the problem without doing anything to the parts. If you are not so good with electronics but can solder then the first and second procedures are the way to go.

BTW DO NOT do any soldering on the amp while it is on or even plugged in. I don't mean to sound like your mother or anything but I would feel very bad if you were injured or if you messed up your amp. If you are in over your head with this stuff then get some help. I do think we are close to solving this but this stuff can bring you some surprises. So post back your results, even if it is to let us know that the amp is ok, and we can continue. Again we all learn from these things. Hope this helps.

Gary

BTW that the DEEP only affects channel A says there may be a problem here also. Your choice to fix or not. You also mention hearing the switching for DEEP and MODERN but not for 1/2 DR. This is normal. The first two are switching relays. Relays are mechanical and can be heard. The 1/2 DR is an electronic switch. Nothing mechanical to hear.
 
Hi Stuart,

One other thing it could be is resistor R372. If you have a voltmeter you will pick this up pretty quick.

A short post for a change.

Gary
 

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