Yet another 'Cab' Thread. Different (maybe)

[Justin_Blackened]

Hey Guys.

I have been loving my Mark V:25. And have been running it with a Harley Benton 2x12 with v30's.
Cheap cab and sounds pretty dam good to me, matches well. heres a pic to perk your interest in yet another cab thread.



Anyway. I have 3 problems.

1. This feeling in the back of my mind I am missing out on some magic not having a top tier cab like a Mesa.

2. I love the lowend I am getting horizontally with the 2x12. But am hating that all those other juicy freq's are smacking me in the ankles.

3. GAS.

I have been using the benton for YEARS before with a H&K tubemeister and have swapped between placing the cab vertically and horizontally numerous times. I just cant give up the lowend from having the cab horizontal on the floor.

After reading every thread google has to offer (all of them!) I feel these options are best for me.

1. Save up and buy a Mesa Vertical 2x12. Hoping that the slightly bigger cab and slant top retains good lowend and also aims some juice at my body. Problem is new is overpriced in good ole Australia. So I have to wait for used. I check Ebay and classified everyday for Mesa gear. And they come around about as often as Metallica albums. Also $$$$

2. Buy a second Harley Benton 2x12 for peanuts and stack them in stereo. Hoping that the speakers are high end to aim dem tonez at my body. Very cheap option and the cabs will match!

3. Buy a mesa horizontal 2x12. And stack it with the Benton. But I am worried the mesa will destroy the Benton in every way and the benton will drag down the sound, forcing me to sell it. Leaving me in the same position I am now just with a nicer cab. Sound at the ankles!

4. Gut the benton its parts. Speakers, jacks, handles, corners etc. And build a mesa vertical 2x12 clone. Which would cost about the same as me buying another brand new Benton 2x12.

A. I do not gig. But I jam once a month with drummer friend. But both in bedrooms/small spaces. My man cave is 2x3 meters so its tiny. I am 95% of the time sitting down in an office chair. So getting some distance between me and the cab is not an option.

B. Either way I really want to add some customization to the cabs and head, with a grill change. Either a cream/black or grey/black grill. I'll do it DIY, and if I go the dual benton cabs I was thinking of doing some internal work. Like sealing the Cab, replacing the wiring and gasketing the jacks, handles and speakers for a better seal. LIKE BELOW




4x12 is not an option because I havent got a big enough car to transport it if I jam. 2 1x12's would be good. But Means I would have to buy 2 Mesa 1x12's which would be expensive, and from all the research I have done It seems 2 1x12's isnt quiet what I am after. Since I run an EL84 head I already lose that THUMP against a full sized head and am worried that a step down to 1x12's would make me lose even more 'Big amp/cab feel and thump' despite reports of good lowend from say a Thiele. So for now I am staying away from 1x12's unless I get the chance to try a 1x12 stack (i probably should before dismissing it)

Please bare in mind this is not another '2x12 vs 4x12 vs 1x12' type thread. Its for my particular situation. And what you would do in my particular situation.

Cheers!

PS. I apologies greatly for the horrid formatting, grammar and spelling. I smashed this out on my lunch break!

 

[elvis]

What's wrong with keeping the 2x12 cab vertical like in the pics?

Mesa cabs sound good, but I wouldn't expect them to "destroy" your existing cab. If the Benton has decent speakers, it's probably not a junk-sounding cab.

If I were you, I'd just tilt the cab back so you can hear the mids. If you want to build something, build a wedge to sit the cab on that allows the lows to couple to the floor but that puts the cab at an angle. I'd start with the same angle that the angled-front 2x12 and 4x12 cabs use.

Longer-term, you may be able to alter the cab you have to make it a half-angled front like a recto 2x12. You'd have to cut the sides and rework the baffle and then recover it.

Another possibility would be to get a 1x12 to sit on the 2x12 cab.

I once built a 4x12 cab based on a Marshall 1960 plan, but made it all out of 3/4" CDX plywood glued and screwed. It sounded amazing, way better than the Marshall cab. And it was less expensive than buying the cab. A lot of work, though. I also stained it instead of covering.

Seems like this is more GAS than necessity. Not to disparage GAS! I just went through a painfully expensive GAS attack. :shock:

 

[ryjan]

You know you won't be completely happy until you get the Mesa vertical 2x12.
Just buy it and stop the torture. :lol:

 

[mesa metal]

++1 ryjan

 

[Justin_Blackened]

What's wrong with keeping the 2x12 cab vertical like in the pics?

Mesa cabs sound good, but I wouldn't expect them to "destroy" your existing cab. If the Benton has decent speakers, it's probably not a junk-sounding cab.

If I were you, I'd just tilt the cab back so you can hear the mids. If you want to build something, build a wedge to sit the cab on that allows the lows to couple to the floor but that puts the cab at an angle. I'd start with the same angle that the angled-front 2x12 and 4x12 cabs use.

Longer-term, you may be able to alter the cab you have to make it a half-angled front like a recto 2x12. You'd have to cut the sides and rework the baffle and then recover it.

Another possibility would be to get a 1x12 to sit on the 2x12 cab.

I once built a 4x12 cab based on a Marshall 1960 plan, but made it all out of 3/4" CDX plywood glued and screwed. It sounded amazing, way better than the Marshall cab. And it was less expensive than buying the cab. A lot of work, though. I also stained it instead of covering.

Seems like this is more GAS than necessity. Not to disparage GAS! I just went through a painfully expensive GAS attack. :shock:

The benton has v30's. I am very happy with the sound of the speakers.

Problem I have with standing the cab on its side is that I lose that thump you get from coupling with the floor on the long side. I have been back and fourth between the horizontal and vertical setup over the years. It just loses something when vertical... having the head awkwardly sat over the metal handles hurts my OCD too

Ill try the wedge idea tonight. Propping one edge up with a slab of wood to see what it does!

The suggestion of adding a 1x12 would probably be a good move also. Possibly a thiele with a mc90? Different sound and cab construction and would add a super portable jamming solution. But then that OCD takes over again that the cabs would be different sizes (GOD HELP ME).

If it were you would you add a 1x12 with a different speaker or another matching 2x12? Either way Ill test angling up the cab i have. I could even get a second 2x12 and angle the top cab slighty. Replicating a slant 4x12 a little. Bigger rubber feet at the front and smaller on the back could work well.

You know you won't be completely happy until you get the Mesa vertical 2x12.
Just buy it and stop the torture. :lol:

Thats my fear man. It really is. I worry that ill get that benton 2x12 stack. Then 3 weeks later be on ebay again pressing F5 waiting for a mesa cab to come up... lol

Although I have always been partial to gear that is good for the money. Rather than paying out the arse for the best. But maybe that has been because I was a student and had no money, as against now I have a well paying job and could buy what ever i wanted.

I thought id put some prices up to help compare. In australia.

Mesa 2x12 NEW: $900-950 US
USED: $550-650 US (verts are EXTREMELY rare)
Benton 2x12 NEW: $215 US
USED: $150 US (very rare though)

So yeah. I can buy another benton, modify them with new fancy grill cloth and some improvements. And still save a bucket of money.

Another consideration is I dont even know if a Vert 2x12 will fit in my car? maybe I should test that before deciding. Because its a deal breaker if I cant get it in the boot or back seat.

++1 ryjan

8)

 

[elvis]

The vert 2x12 is nice, but physically huge, even compared to the horizontal 2x12. It's like 2/3 of a 4x12. And you will still have the issue that standing it on its bottom it will have less thump than on its side.

If I were to go with a 1x12 it would be a widebody ported. That is far and away the biggest-sounding 1x12 IMO. I have a stack of two of them, and that may actually interest you. They sound huge stacked, but also sound good as a single. So you could solve the "fitting in the car" issue and overall have a good, flexible, quality solution. The ported speakers are less directional and allow for a bit more airy clean sound.

But the 2x12 has more thump.

So many choices. Which is why I have so many cabs.

 

[Justin_Blackened]

The vert 2x12 is nice, but physically huge, even compared to the horizontal 2x12. It's like 2/3 of a 4x12. And you will still have the issue that standing it on its bottom it will have less thump than on its side.

Yeah the size of the vert 2x12 is good and bad. I will have to go to a shop and see if I can get it into my car. Because if it doesnt fit I can cross that off the list!

The width of the vert I thought would be good because you still have some girth on the floor verse putting a horizontal 2x12 on its side. And you get the slant pointing a speaker at you!

If I were to go with a 1x12 it would be a widebody ported. That is far and away the biggest-sounding 1x12 IMO. I have a stack of two of them, and that may actually interest you. They sound huge stacked, but also sound good as a single. So you could solve the "fitting in the car" issue and overall have a good, flexible, quality solution. The ported speakers are less directional and allow for a bit more airy clean sound.

But the 2x12 has more thump.

So many choices. Which is why I have so many cabs.

I always assumed the wide body ported 1x12 was the same as the thiele. And it was people just calling it different things, but after looking into it they are slighty different arent they? Still the problem of if I wanted a 1x12 stack I would need to spend alot of cash. 1 1x12 would be considerably more than another Benton 2x12.

Ill keep an eye out for some anyway a wide body stack would look badass!

My biggest hurdle to be honest is what actually becomes available. I wont buy Mesa new in Australia, prices are just too high. So I have to wait for something to come up used. So I could say I settled on a vert 2x12 and a bargain 1x12 or horizontal 2x12 could come up first. And I am not sure I could resist a well priced horizontal even if I really wanted a vert or ported 1x12.



THought Id reward everyones help with a photo. But the problem was I couldnt find my camera, and the front camera on my phone is broken. So i had to take the photo using the selfie camera... but a pic is a pic right?

I also did some extending testing with tilting the cab.

Horizontal and flat: Thumpy and smooth.

Horizontal and tilted: Retained some bottom girth in the sound, not all but enough. But I was surprised at how different it sounded in the room. It was like lifting up that 'blanket' that you get with sound sometimes. Instant improvement! I can defiantly live with that.

Vertical and flat: Lost alot of thump, but gained a more balanced sound in return. But after the results I had with tilting the cab I wasnt as satisfied with the sound I got, despite having a speaker higher up.

Vertical and tilted: Thump was completely go with this. My least fav orientation. Despite being able to hear everything the Amp was producing, it was so clear and articulate. But I like low end thump to much to lose it all.

This experiment taught me a couple of things.

1. I love the sound of the tilted speaker.
2. I now know id prefer a slant vs straight 4x12.
3. I hated the look of my amp and cab leaning back... it felt... unstable.
4. Despite being satisfied with the tones I got when tilting the 2x12 when horizontal. the GAS is too strong, I must have MOARRRR.

So the hunt continues.

I think I settled on cream and black grill cloth to replace the plain black on the cab and head. Should look cool once I get around to ordering and fitting it.

Here are some pics I found online of somewho who did the same grill change on his Harley Benton 2x12 but put a marshall badge on. (I will not be putting a mesa or boogie badge on mine dw)

What do you guys think? or is grey black a bit different? I like both haha.

 

[ryjan]

If you're worried about portability my vertical 2x12 fits in the trunk of my Civic Coupe with room to spare.

 

[Justin_Blackened]

If you're worried about portability my vertical 2x12 fits in the trunk of my Civic Coupe with room to spare.

That helps alot actually bro.

Unfortunately for me my boot has a very inconvenient sub box. and a LPG tank in the boot. I have a corner sub box which I have been meaning to install to get some space back. But heres a pic to show you what i am dealing with. All that crap isnt there now(old photo)

But I think if I move that sub It should fit, my 2x12 doesnt fit in there atm which is much smaller but of course thats my own fault for being to lazy to install the new box haha.

Atm I have been researching more about 1x12's and liking the idea of wide body ported cabs. maybe even building my own, one straight and a top cab with a slight slant.

The wide bodies are the same width as the vert 2x12 so they are pretty big, eliminating that small boxy sound associated with some 1x12's. AHHHH the options, such a hard choice. Ebay and the classifieds will probably end up making a decision for me however lol.

 

[wave_of]

Does anyone know if Mesa has ever made a non-slanted vertical 212 that would fit under the normal vertical 212? That would make an awesome stack that I feel would get you a lot of options.

 

[Justin_Blackened]

Does anyone know if Mesa has ever made a non-slanted vertical 212 that would fit under the normal vertical 212? That would make an awesome stack that I feel would get you a lot of options.

I dont think so. The wide body 1x12 is the same width as the vert. So you can have a little stack that way?

Or I am pretty sure to can order the horizontal with the mesa badge, handle and feet to suit vertical use.