What can I do to make me like my Dual Recto?

[mesanomad100]

Hey,

I've asked you guys for advice when it came to the amp purchases and have always got great responses, so I thought I'd ask again.

I'm having a little issue with my 3-channel Dual Recto. It doesen't sound that good anymore. It was my first real 100W tube amp, and it sounded amazing when I first got it.

Now playing it, I feel it doesent sound refined or tight. I know that is the beauty of the recto, but honestly I feel either its time for a change, either a new amp or something else. I'm playing it, and I just don't think it sounds 'good'.

I like the recto sound, and since I'm a gain freak - I'm afraid to try anything else that wouldn't give me the amount of gain the recto does. I've been getting back into Dream Theater alot recently, and remembered how great Petrucci's tone is. Now, I'm not expecting the same exact tone, but interested in getting a nice, clear, defined, heavy, saturated, gainy rhythm and lead tone from my amp.

Now, I come here to ask for advice. Should I take a look at another amp, or stick witht his one and pour some more money into it?

I was thinking a whole new set of tubes. I purchased some JJ E34L's from a member here, and that was a great start. I really prefer the 34's vs. the 6L6's, especially the upper-mid shift/"british" character of the tubes, but i can't help but wonder if maybe I can acheive a better tone with a whole new set of 12AX7's preamps.

I've also just got a digitech bad monkey, and I felt it just added more gain, but didn't change any dynamics of the amp. It literally felt like a Recto on '11', and being the gain freak I am, wouldn't turn it off once I turn it on. But it doesen;t solve my problem of the inherent tone.

Now, if I were to sell this amp and get something else, it sucks because it seems all Recto's have taken hits in value - right now I wouldn't get what I paid for it, and the amps I'd consider, I'd have to undoubtebly put cash on top of the amp.

I've tried the Stiletto, both the deuce and the ace, however vs. the Recto, I felt it wasn't as 'heavy'. I'm very interested in trying a Mark IV (If Petrucci uses it,...) but there aren't any around here in the NYC area for me to try.

Overall, I know this post seems all over the place. I really like the Recto tone, but I feel it sounds a little one-dimensional. Theres a couple of things swirling through my mind: I'm running a 2x12" recto cab, maybe another 2x12" or selling it for a 4x12"? I've tried an EQ in the efx loop, but couldn't get it to sound very well with the parallel mix pot.

Any ideas? Thanks.

listen to ibanez and platypus...They've been here a long time and have read all the posts. Not to mention that they have gone through everything with their amps.

The facts are simple: no amount of modding, pedals, eqing, or tubes will change the sound of the rectifier. It's still a rectifier. The circuit board is the same thing. The amp is wired to project certain frequencies you're not liking.

I've gone through all the rectos myself. I ended up selling the 3ch and keeping an old 1992 2channel. The tone is almost 180 degrees different. Everyone who's ever heard it hears the difference.

If you like Dream Theater, go out and invest in a Mark...be it a mark4, mark3, C+, or triaxis. You will instantly get the sound you want. If not, you are risking spending lots of money and time only to eventually come full circle and say, "those guys knew what they were saying."

I agree fully with all of this
but working with what he has and not spending a small fortune on a MK series a Keeley TS9 baked may get him where he wants to get,it did for me,but then again I want to keep this amp and pedal and get a MKIV as well
completly different amps

 

[Elpelotero]

^^This is true...the best solution to your problem without selling the amp and going after a new one is to invest in a pedal. Tubescreamer, keeley, maxon, etc. Any of these distortion pedals will help out a lot to tighten up the tone and give you smoother sustain. I would do this over changing tubes. If that's not your sound, then you should really start looking into a new amp.

 

[mesanomad100]

^^This is true...the best solution to your problem without selling the amp and going after a new one is to invest in a pedal. Tubescreamer, keeley, maxon, etc. Any of these distortion pedals will help out a lot to tighten up the tone and give you smoother sustain. I would do this over changing tubes. If that's not your sound, then you should really start looking into a new amp.

yeah this is the only real solution
it still maintains your recto sound but get rid of any imperfections to the amp

then again a recto might not be your thing
if its a JP esque tone then that a MK series you want,a tubescreamer will get you close but it aint no MK series
Im sure the recto's JP used were the Roadking series one which had the pentode/triode switch to get them more smoother like a MK(this may be bullshit but Im sure I read this somewhere)
He also used the racktifiers,2 channels alot,which were alot more smoother,natural,organic sounding like the older 2 channels recs

still a MK is smoooooooth!!!!!!!!!

 

[JPIndustrie]

Wow. I never knew I would get this many replies.

Currently, I'm in a RATM tribute band (www.myspace.com/thebattleoflosangeles), but I fill in for a couple of friend's bands, and record a couple of tracks too with the DR. I originally chose the DR because of the 3-channel versatility, but the cleans leave plenty to be desired. They're NOT BAD, but the cleans on a MK IV blow it away.

I can't remember my exact settings, but I never put the gain past 6. I usually use the vintage channel, as I dislike the fizziness of the Modern Channel.

For the rage band, I attempt to get a 'looser'. gritttier tone, so I usually set the Variac to 'Spongy' and turn on the Tube Rectos. I believe I set the Pres at around 6 or 7, the Bass around 3/4, the mids to around 7 and the treb to around 6. I usually lower the channel master to compress the tone a little bit, and I boost the master volume knob for volume.

The DR ironically does the Rage thing to a T (especially with the E34L's mimicking a Marshall), but the reason why I posted here today was because that's all it seems to get. I get a decent mid-gainy rhythm tone as explained above, and the signature recto loose, saturation tone.

I can't seem to dial in a decent lead tone. I've played with all the settings, put an EQ in the loop (which didn't turn out that well) and tried the boost pedal - it seems like there's a virtual blanket covering the speakers that I can't seem to dial out. It doesen't have a clear, precise, articulate distortion - more like raw, saturated in-your-face crunch. I like the sound, I'd just rather have something else.

 

[Platypus]

JPIndustrie,

I've been down this road before and I honestly think that the recto is not the right amplifier for you. I am not saying it's not a good amp by any means, it's just aimed at a very different chunk of sonic territory. I liked mine for what it did but it left me wanting more out of an amp.

I tried everything to get it to do what I wanted but in the end I realized that I had to use the right tool for the right job and I found what I was looking for in the Mark IV instead. Everything you've written here in this thread only reenforces my belief that your tastes are much more suited for the Mark IV.

For my tastes, I'd rather have a bigger sonic pallete to work with. This is all opinion of course so take it with a grain of salt, but the rectifier feels like a glorified stomp box for 'the recto sound' to me. Sure it can do other tones no question, but it's only really impressive at that one distinct tone for me. The Mark on the other hand, each channel is inspiring and impressive to me. You can do absolutely any style of music with it, I have yet to find one that I can't get great tones from.

You really need to play one.. it's easy to read stuff on the internet but your ears will tell you right away.

$0.02

 

[mesanomad100]

JPIndustrie,

I've been down this road before and I honestly think that the recto is not the right amplifier for you. I am not saying it's not a good amp by any means, it's just aimed at a very different chunk of sonic territory. I liked mine for what it did but it left me wanting more out of an amp.

I tried everything to get it to do what I wanted but in the end I realized that I had to use the right tool for the right job and I found what I was looking for in the Mark IV instead. Everything you've written here in this thread only reenforces my belief that your tastes are much more suited for the Mark IV.

For my tastes, I'd rather have a bigger sonic pallete to work with. This is all opinion of course so take it with a grain of salt, but the rectifier feels like a glorified stomp box for 'the recto sound' to me. Sure it can do other tones no question, but it's only really impressive at that one distinct tone for me. The Mark on the other hand, each channel is inspiring and impressive to me. You can do absolutely any style of music with it, I have yet to find one that I can't get great tones from.

You really need to play one.. it's easy to read stuff on the internet but your ears will tell you right away.

$0.02

yep exactly what my response was goin to be
A recto isnt your thang!!!
a MKIV sounds like it may be the amp for you.
The boost in front will get rid of a few imperfections but at the end of the day you will still want a new amp probably.
I like the sound that I get from my Dual with s TS9 in front and for that reason Im keeping mine,but I also want the tonal versitility of a MKIV.
If you have already tried all the DR suggestions then a DR isnt for you

If you really think it does the Rage stuff really well,then keep it for that gig,but if your in the studio or deping for other bands then a more versitile amp will be need...thats when the MKIV steps in,you gotta play one to know what the hype is about

 

[Elpelotero]

for the record, I don't think the Mark4 will nail the Rage tones as well as a Rectifier. Just my opinion though.

 

[mesanomad100]

for the record, I don't think the Mark4 will nail the Rage tones as well as a Rectifier. Just my opinion though.

yeah I was thinking the same

your in a hard place becuase the recto will do the rage stuff pretty well but the MKIV wont really give that sorta recto aggresion that its famour for

 

[ThunderMonkey]

My other guitarist plays through an older Mark IV/halfback 4x12 and we have a blast playing together as the overtones and freq's from my DR and his IV compliment each other in a HUGE way.
Aside from having both and A/Bing them as your rig, you're left with a choice and that probably includes $$$. If you can swing it, get the Mark IV and keep your Recto for those tones.

My next Mesa purchase is going to be a Mark IV (shooting for early Fall) to compliment my DR tone and A/B them accordingly. Together, they sound nothing short of INCREDIBLE. :twisted:

 

[ToneAddictJon]

Couldn't agree more 8) If at all possible, get both. You won't regret it. The recto does everything the Mark IV can't and the Mark IV does everything the recto can't

 

[JPIndustrie]

Platypus, and everyone else in this thread, you guys are right. Especially after playing a gig today and being unhappy with the tone.

I guess Mark IV it is.

Now the only problem is, selling the DR and finding a Mark IV head.

Looks like I might be posting a 'For Sale' thread soon..

Thanks.

 

[Platypus]

Platypus, and everyone else in this thread, you guys are right. Especially after playing a gig today and being unhappy with the tone.

I guess Mark IV it is.

Now the only problem is, selling the DR and finding a Mark IV head.

Looks like I might be posting a 'For Sale' thread soon..

Thanks.

I just did a similar thing back in February.

Sell your DR on ebay, much easier, I got some good cash for mine. Good luck trying to find a Mark IV head though!

 

[JPIndustrie]

I'm looking at a Mark IV combo, actually -

I already have the recto cab at my band's practice space. It might be a little convenient to have a combo, plug it in at practice, and then bring it home and be able to use the combo at home.

I can imagine it weighs almost 90 lbs with the speaker. Do you think theoretically, I could remove the speaker from the combo enclosure and to effectively make it a head w/ my recto cab to save weight?

Thanks for you help guys.

 

[pierre-olivier]

I can imagine it weighs almost 90 lbs with the speaker. Do you think theoretically, I could remove the speaker from the combo enclosure and to effectively make it a head w/ my recto cab to save weight?

Thanks for you help guys.

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean... You can always remove the speaker, if it's been put in there it sure can be taken out :wink: But then why a combo? I'd get the head and save some more weight.
Unless you mean you want to remove the speaker only temporarily for practice and put it back in at home, now I've never seen anything like that :?

 

[JPIndustrie]

Unless you mean you want to remove the speaker only temporarily for practice and put it back in at home, now I've never seen anything like that :?

Well actually - thats exactly what I was thinking of doing.

Having the speaker in the enclosure for home practice. When taking it to practice/gigs - remove the speaker to save weight.

Sure, the head is convenient. But, I wouldn't be able to use the head at home, because I refuse to carry the cab home as well. :lol:

 

[JPIndustrie]

alright man.

if you want straight up RATM tone, use a Marshall 2205. I had that and nailed that *****'s tones (for the rhythm riffs anyways, he uses the whammy pedal WAAAAAAAY too much for leads).

my RK1 with EL34 and spongy/recto setting gets very close to RATM. You may try a stiletto as well.

The Mark III I had got close to RATM as well but in classA with el34.

Honestly, I don't *have* to nail his tone exactly. Honestly, Morello's JCM800 into peavey 4x12" cab wasn't my idea of 'amazing tone' :lol:

I don't necessarily have to nail is tone perfectly - from what I can gather, its easier to 'loosen' the tone on a mark IV to simulate a mid-gainy, classic rock tone (with the graphic EQ) than to try to 'tighten' up a recto for clear, articulate distortion.

 

[VoodooChild24]

Couldn't agree more 8) If at all possible, get both. You won't regret it. The recto does everything the Mark IV can't and the Mark IV does everything the recto can't

 

[mesanomad100]

Couldn't agree more 8) If at all possible, get both. You won't regret it. The recto does everything the Mark IV can't and the Mark IV does everything the recto can't

lovely set up

waht option is that MKIV head

I mean the grill cloth,do you know how much extra this costs,
or tell me to **** off and mind my own business!!!!

 

[visualrocker69]

VoodooChild24, how do you like the Holy Grail and the OCD?

JPIndustrie, I'm going to be selling my Mark IV widebody combo soon, if you're interested.

 

[123thefirst]

Now, I have to ask: when you come to roadblocks on your road to solid musicianship, will you always grab the next piece of gear that you think might suit your fancy and think that that will solve the problem by itself?

I'd guess there's a LOT more you could do with what you have before you exhaust The Recto's expressive possibilities. Have you, for instance, dropped the power down to 50 watts and really given that a worthy evaluation? I find that 4 power tubes is way too stiff a feeling. 2 power tubes bring a lot more life and organic, dynamic feeling in. Not that you wouldn't want that massive power sometimes, but why limit yourself to it?

The thing is if you buy a new very expensive piece of equipment, maybe even the top of the line, but only use 10% of its expressive capabilities, where are you gonna go next to find something that let's you grow a little more?