What about the sprage-orange drop caps

[fatboy135]

Well, what do you think about the orange drops caps???
There are several urban legends that saids that they are the best caps, with some magic that does your amp sounds like angels.
This caps are usually used before an after an amplifier stage to isolate the signal from the DC that becomes from the supply that feeds tubes and from another parts of the circuit.
Some people says that you must to replace this caps every 10 years. To maintain your tone like the first day.
What do you think????

 

[Boogiebabies]

I have three Mesa's over 20 years old with all of the original Sprague Orange Drops and they work perfectly. They are usually run at only 50-60% of their working voltage and have a very long lifespan. The only bad ones I have seen have dried up from being under the power section. The orange dip dried up and the caps were exposed to moisture. The only real difference is if you prefer the 715P polypropylene to the 225P polyester. In almost all old Mesa's there is a scattering of both in the circuits or whatever they had on hand. I have one with 225P's in the PI circuit and it is actually a bit smoother than the other two with 715P's. There are other caps like paper in oil, metalized polyester and so on. They all have a different way of coupling the AC and their effect on tone is a widely debated topic.

 

[fatboy135]

I never saw a polyester cap dried up, the electrolithic caps usually dried up with so long time...
Nowadays only the 715 are available...
Did you really hear any diferences on the AC coupling-decoupling. You must have a very fine ear. Tell us your tone experienced with this caps please.

 

[screengrid]

Hi, I think it is gradually a well known fact, that different brands and types of caps in the signal way have a audible influence on the tone. So far, I only can believe and agree with boogiebabies. Of course it depends on everyone's personal taste of tone and the quality of the ears one has. IMO, it's like drinking wine, many people aren't able to tell the difference in quality of a cheap wine of a super market and a more expensive one. So it needs it's time until the tongue is senzitized it lasts just also until one can tell differences in sound of a tube amp, depending on the used caps ( and resistors also ), IMO

 

[fatboy135]

Really can you hear that differences??? And what about NOS tubes???

 

[Boogiebabies]

Over time the orange dip dries up and either cracks or peels up at the leads. They turn very light orange and have a chalky feel to them. As far as urban legend, you can put orange drops in with the lady who microwaved a cat, sasquatch and the jersey devil. Like NOS tubes, unless you have spent time with them your basis will only be on someone elses opinion. Yoy have to dig in and get dirty. As far as audible differences, yes, I have the ears of Eric Johnsons 4th cousin on his fathers side twice removed.

 

[fatboy135]

I´m really amazing...
One question more: Did you really hear the diference on a gig with the drummer kicking the singer shouting... or its only when you play your amp in your house with good condition???
Tell me please :roll:

 

[Monsta-Tone]

I use the 715, and 716 series of Orange Drops. They are made by SBE now, Sprague quit making them years ago.

The 715 is smoother, rounder, and more "Vintage" sounding.

The 716 is in your face, louder, more "Hi-Fi." These seem to have more headroom than the 715's do.

I use either of these in Vintage Marshalls with great success. I simply ask the owner of the amp what tone he is looking for. I only replace Coupling Caps and Tone Stack Caps if they are bad or if the owner wants the amp Modified.



In Vintage Fender amps, I have been using Mallory paper foil caps with great success. They tend to sound extremely Vintage, and are not harsh or "Hi-Fi," sounding like the Orange Drops.



As for the Capacitors wearing out, this is a Marketing Scheme thought up by guys like Dan Torres who want to charge you $35 for $5 in parts.

These should never go bad on their own.

I have seen some that went bad from failing Transformers or Tubes.




Basically, if you use lots of Gain, then any of the Orange Drop series will do just fine. If you like Cleans with sweet breakup, then go with the Mallory's.


Coupling and Tone Stack Caps are a great way to modify amps without changing their appearance. I changed all of the crappy Green Korean Caps out in a Bedrock 625, using all Orange Drop 716P series caps and the amp suddenly came alive with great tone and headroom. It sounded like it had several blankets over it before the change.


Hope this helps, it could just be the 6 am ramblings of a man without his coffee.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Some people says that you must to replace this caps every 10 years. To maintain your tone like the first day.
What do you think????

Every amp has to be broken in. No amp will sound exactly like it did the day it was manufactured. Tubes, Resistors, Caps, etc. all change over time. They drift a little, as well as breaking in.


If you like your amp's tone, stick with what you have. If you don't, you could always look into buying another amp.



Look at it like this: Is a Vintage Marshall, Boogie, Fender, etc. worth more with the original Caps, or replacement ones? Aged parts will give different (better????) tones than newer ones. This is part of the reason that Vintage amps are so sought after. If you go to the store and try a Deluxe Reverb Re-Issue, it won't sound like most Vintage ones. Every amp tends to sound differently as it ages. This is one reason that better manufacturers like Soldano & Mesa are using Metal Film Resistors. They won't drift unpredictably over a period of time. This way, they can define what the amp will sound like, and it will stay fairly close.

 

[908ssp]

This is a must read article, you wont be disappointed.

http://sound.westhost.com/articles/capacitors.htm

 

[fdesalvo]

I used both Mallory 150s and Spragues extensively in my custom amps. I liked using the yellow Mallory caps for cathode caps and tone stack apps and Sprague Atoms for my filters.

Most people change their electrolytic caps after 8-10 years, but like many people here, I've noticed that they can last alot longer than this on the preamp side of the board.

 

[fatboy135]

Saddy to be disappointed but, orange drops, Nos valves and other elitist components doesn´t says to me nothing.
There are several times that guitarrists come to me saying that they want the NOS valves that some guy talk about them. They have ultra heavy marshall and they want the mullards valves looking for the best sound.
My recomendation is all times the sames. Are you Michael Landau??? Are you playing on Dream Theater???? Put a good Sovtek or EH and save your money to invite your girlfriend a good lunch.
In my point of view if you play on a trash metal band and your are on gigs maybe nobody will notice the differences between a nos tube or a sprague cap maybe the drummer will kicking the bass drum as strong as he can, and maybe the singer will be shouting until he falls down to the floor. Then why to get a nos tube or a sprague cap.
I´m totally agree that if you are an elitist from sound you can spend your money like you want. Even if you have a boutique amp I recomend to put good NOS valves. But I really think that looking for the perfect sound is a quest like when Indy was looking for the holy grial, in my opinion a bit nonsense.
So my idea is not to spend your money in sprague caps expensive than other caps, or don´t spend in mullard valves if you are a thrash metal player, try to get the best tone researching with your amp.
About the replace of caps, I only replace it if it doesn´t work, some people that says that you must replace the cap after 10 years to keep your original and purist sound I say " ok dude good luck replace your caps for the best tone, but how about replacing your guitar cable too??"
So much people spends the money in mullards tubes and then they uses the guitar cable that my mom uses to dry the clothes.

 

[Boogiebabies]

All this and your a hater ?

 

[fatboy135]

No I´m not a hater. I´m only says that there are so much purists in the air. I think that if you have a mark IV I think that orange drop will works so fine if you wants a extra tone, but if you had a marshall jcm900 and you have a epiphone is a great nonsense to want a couple of mullards or recap your amp with orange drop, maybe other caps manufacturer will work so fine.
Of course my triaxis has orange drop 716p and sounds so fine and if I must to recap it, probably I will put sprague. But there are so many people that wants mullard NOS and theirs guitar cable has a great capacitance effect filtering his original signal.

 

[fatboy135]

of course my triaxis sounds with the SBE caps, and I only hear it with this caps, then my question was if I recap with another brand it will sounds worst??' better??? or maybe different???

 

[Boogiebabies]

O.K. then, round two.

Carbon film v/s carbon comp v/s metal film.....

It's all about subtle nuances and personal preference.
You are on about the NOS tube, but I am the type who does not
mind buying a tube rated for 11,000 hours and was built in an era
where lives depended on the quality. What is the lifespan of a Mullard or
Telefunken 12AX7? 30,000-40,000 hours?

Cables are another personal preference. Some guys like long cables to
tame bright guitars. I prefer Monster and as short as possible.

 

[RussB]

fatboy,

I can't figure out what the hell it is you're getting at? Do YOU even know what you're talking about? Are you confusing filter caps with OD's?

Why in the hell would anyone want to replace the coupling and tone caps in a Mesa, which would prove to be a daunting task for even a very experienced tech.

NOS tubes, OD caps, cheap cables and Epiphones...stop the hate!

...and PLEASE tell me that English isn't your first language! :shock:

 

[fatboy135]

English is not my first language of course... sorry, I´m from Spain.
Yes I´m agree cable as short as you can, mogami, monster, etc... but the really matter is that some people hears about purist audio, NOS tubes, special caps and other things and then they want for example a mullard tube when they are using the worst guitar cable ever made.
Why do you want the best NOS tube when you are playing with the worst cable???
I think that if you want the best tube you must want the best cable...
What is OD´s????

 

[fatboy135]

wait wait what a silly od=orange drop ok ok
I´m confusing the filter caps with the od´s could you explain me the differences please??'

And I´m not looking for replace the sprague caps on my triaxis for any reason, but if any time one of them doesn´t work I think that I will replace for a equivalent from another brand if I don´t have one of them.

 

[RussB]

I do not understand your rant about NOS tube users and cheap cables...

The again, I don't really know what your all "upset" about?