Video Idea: Mark V 6L6 vs EL34

[lesterpaul]

amen-nobdy's sh!ttin' on trev,but I am one of those "hair splitters", and I thought since I have tried numerous tube combos and reported all of them to this board, I would offer my credible opinion-hats off to Haggerty's..an asset to the board!but you stated that you heard the amp lose balls and gain smooth out-that IS a big deal to many of us!that is what this board is all about-tone,baby!!you want cork sniffin'??go hang out in the tubes dept. of this board and prepare for another dimension of shade and color!and YES!WE DO CARE about this subject!!!guilty,guilty,guilty no drama,just talkin' tone!!

 

[screamingdaisy]

Everyone's sh!t on that guy who said he didn't hear much of a difference and honestly those sitting here making a deal of it are just being dramatic.

To get technical, I believe we were shitting on him for referring to our opinions as hype when he's never actually tried it for himself.

I listened to the whole thing multiple times and I agree with him. Obviously there are subtle differences but those differences can probably be emulated with good eq changes and such.

No, they can't. The response and the harmonics are different. The amount of headroom is different. They emphasise different regions of the midrange. The tubes behave differently when overdriven. The tubes behave different in triode/pentode. The tubes are simply different.

Can you dial in your 6L6s to have more midrange? Yes. Can you dial in your EL34s to have more bottom/top end? Yes. Can you somehow make your 6L6s compress like an EL34? No. Can you dial in an EL34 to compress like a 6L6? No.

It's not like any of this is new information. The differences between EL34s and 6L6s have been well documented over the course of many decades and in many different amplifiers. The way they perform in a Mark V is not magical... they simply do what they've always done before. To ignore decades of anecdotal and technical information based on a clip that clearly details those differences in a way that is easily heard through the loss and compression of a youtube clip is dumb. To make a sweeping judgement that 6L6s will perform similar to EL34s across all modes, power settings and volume levels based on a short clip is just plain ignorant.

Lets face it... at the end of the day the amp will always sound like a Mark V. However the Mark V EQ does not have the magical ability to make a 6L6 sound/perform like an EL34 and vice versa, which should be common sense.

 

[MBJunkie]

Thank you HaggertysMusic for doing this!

I prefer the sounds of 6L6s in your clip comparisons, but overall, I prefer the sound of EL34s in my V with the tone knobs, etc. set to my liking.

Still, I do appreciate you taking the time to do this comparison!

 

[litesnsirens]

Great Video!! I agree that the differences in the video are subtle. And that's what you should realistically expect when you are swapping out power tubes. Most of the tone shaping is done before it gets to that stage, the power tubes are the final touch.

I can't really see what the volume levels were at in the video, I think this would have a fairly significant impact on how much of a difference you are going to hear. The more you drive the power tube section the more you are going to hear the different nuances that each tube has to offer. I think that's why so many of us who have made the switch have noticed the difference most when we are actually using the amp in a band situation. It's a tactile thing.

Watching the video is probably not enough to sway anyone one way or another, but it's still an interesting study. I think it was approached correctly from a clinical standpoint. That's to say that you start with the tubes that were shipped with the amp and you don't change anything except to swap the tubes.

Again great job!!

 

[JOEY B.]

With a GOOD set of MESA EL-34's (STR-442 or STR-450) the tonal difference is very apparent from the STR-440 6L6. But, then again, I'm one of those hair splittin' cork sniffers. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Rkorn]

Haggertys: great video.
In my laptop there was no difference whatsoever... but when I connected the speakers to the laptop... there was a real difference, can't wait to have my own I try it for myself... I play mainly black/death/thrash metal and I believe the 34s will have a great impact on the tone...
One this is certain, the best amp and the best tubes with some crap guitar player will always sound like sh**

One thing I don't get...
everyone says 6l6 are the best for extreme playing, why are lots of guys using EL34s????? (metallica, megadeth, lamb of god...)
Do these cut better in the mix?

 

[screamingdaisy]

One thing I don't get...
everyone says 6l6 are the best for extreme playing, why are lots of guys using EL34s????? (metallica, megadeth, lamb of god...)
Do these cut better in the mix?

I can't answer your question directly because I'm none of those guys.

What I can say is that the Mark V with EL34s sounds more like Metallica than with 6L6s.

Also, with Lamb of God Mark Morton has one Mark loaded with 6L6s and the other loaded with EL34s. Not sure what Willie does, but considering that from what I read he uses Extreme mode and tends to be more scooped I wouldn't be surprised if he was using 6L6s.

For myself, I've switched back to 6L6s. I REALLY like the way EL34s sound... the harmonics and midrange is outstanding, as is the midrange grind when doing Metallica type stuff. The issue I had was that single notes don't have the same authority. With EL34s single notes are a little softer and much more recessed when compared to the bass strings, which for me was an issue when playing riffs that have a lot of single note runs in them. The 6L6s give an edgier response... maybe not as sweet sounding, but little more aggressive/razor like on the single notes. They also have a different harmonic grind to it... again, not as sweet sounding as the EL34s, but more of that edgy/metallic Mesa grind.

The trade off is that I really don't like channel 2/crunch with 6L6s. It's kind of stiff and boring. Fortunately I floundered upon a setting in Edge mode I really like.

 

[HaggertysMusic]

For any who are interested, we have a 6L6 vs EL34 video up with the Dual Rectifier. Pretty much the same format as the Mark V one. Personally... IMHO... YMMV... I find the difference in tubes to be much more apparent in the Dual Rectifier as opposed to the Mark V.

:: ducks ::

Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPTtbk-b1H4

 

[mightywarlock]

You should use JJ EL34L's instead of the Mesa 447's, or even Winged C's, because the difference between those tubes and the Mesa tubes (JJEL34) is quite different.
The 447's are kind of flat sounding compared to the others, and definitely NOT a good representation of the amp, unless you want to show how much it can suck.

 

[theroan]

The crazy thing is the differences are far more noticeable in the Recto video!? Go figure.

Anyway, I too am sticking with 6L6's, don't want to sacrifice my cleans and I've never been a fan that compressed Marshall crunch. But I agree in all out high gain, the differences are very subtle.

Great work Haggerty's. I wish Canada had Music stores like the states does.

 

[cremona]

I listend to the clip through a apogge D/A and some serious studio monitors, in C 1 the amp sounds a good 3 db louder with the 6l6´s and is much more dynamic, ch 2 its closer but the el34`s have a more defined midrange chunk, ch 3 hmm its hard to tell what is what really, but the 6l6 makes the amp sound a hair more like the classic boogie sound IMO

But its the feel thing that is so important , and is exacly what we cant judge from this clip

But all in all not to bad for a youtube comparison