Tone problems with evetide timefactor w/ Reborn Triple Rec

[ibanezgtr]

Please help, I tried getting some info from the Eventide forum, but I think the guys don't really want to admit the tone loss of the signal with the eventide timefactor activated. Plus the boogie board is the best!! The delay is in the loop of my new TR with series loop, I notice a coloring of my signal when switching from True bypass to activating the delay. What is the best way to run it in the loop to get the best quality sound. I have read about guys using a short cables and putting it on the head, or running a buffer before the delay, why is this? What do you recommend? How can I make the unwanted coloring of the tone less noticeable or eliminated? Thanks

 

[UnderJollyRoger]

Mate, I've read your post on the eventide forum

1) The timefactor belongs in the loop. It's not a good idea to run it in front of a distorted amp.

2) short & good cables can't hurt.

3) I don't think you need a buffer ...

I own a Dual Rec 2010 and the Timefactor (+ Modfactor). I haven't noticed any colouring of the sound when activating the TF. However, I will try that out in the next couple of days.

Have you set the dip switches to line-level ?

Try it out in front of a clean amp (or another effects loop) and see what happens.

This is what you can do in the meantime. I will check my unit out. Seriously, there may be some tone coloring, but I don't think it is really noticeable unless you want to hear it ... you hear from me.

 

[screamingdaisy]

What is the best way to run it in the loop to get the best quality sound.

If your channel volume levels are really high (above 10:00 on the loudest high gain channel) it'll drive the effect harder, possibly producing some tone colouring as the buffer fails to do it's job cleanly. Try lowering the channel volumes and increasing the master output to compensate.

If you really want to go for the best possible result you need to convert the loop to a parallel loop (see link below) and run the TimeFactor in Killdry mode. What this will do is allow you to run the dry signal in parallel with the delayed signal... so you'll have a totally unmolested dry signal from FX send to FX return and the delay (which is only sending out repeats) will be blended in parallel by the mixer.

http://www.suhrguitars.com/tonetools.aspx#minimix

 

[ibanezgtr]

Thanks guys, I only really notice the tone coloring on the high gain channels. Switches are set to line, I am also playing at very low room volume, so don't think I am overloading anything. I had a parallel loop with kill dry on, it sounded terrible for some reason. Went out and bought the new rectifier with series loop. Then got Hollywood Mesa to mod my other head to series too. So parallel is not an option Overall it is a better loop and the new TR is great!!

It's almost like a slight doubling / chorusing / slight out of phase sound, even when the mix is at zero on the pedal. Also a tiny bit of hiss when I check the timefactor with headphones. I am just too much of a tone freak I guess, but have read about other people hearing the same thing in a few different articles...

 

[joe web]

i´m using the older 3ch dual recto (serial loop mod) and the roadster and both amps have a little bit of "bleedover" (don`t know the right word for it - i hope you understand what i mean).
so while i turn down the volume on my g-major (which is hooked up in serial loops), you can still hear so signal coming from the speakers.
maybe this is your problem. you told us, that you`re playing at very low volume, maybe you hear both signals at a time (bleed over signal o the amp and the delay(effect signal) and with low volume, this could cause your problem.

 

[cheameup]

Thanks guys, I only really notice the tone coloring on the high gain channels. Switches are set to line, I am also playing at very low room volume, so don't think I am overloading anything. I had a parallel loop with kill dry on, it sounded terrible for some reason. Went out and bought the new rectifier with series loop. Then got Hollywood Mesa to mod my other head to series too. So parallel is not an option Overall it is a better loop and the new TR is great!!

It's almost like a slight doubling / chorusing / slight out of phase sound, even when the mix is at zero on the pedal. Also a tiny bit of hiss when I check the timefactor with headphones. I am just too much of a tone freak I guess, but have read about other people hearing the same thing in a few different articles...

I think adding any pedal always colours the tone a little. even the expensive trre bypass pdeals I own I notice a difference . Its just physics. the reality is its nothing anyone else will notice expect all of us who probably worry about our pure tone too much at times

 

[ibanezgtr]

Joe I also notice that with channel 3 modern on I can't get my ernie ball 25k volume pedal to have zero sound when rolled all the way off, for volume swells etc. It is in my loop before the time factor. I guess the signal is just too hot with the gain up on that channel, any suggestions? Is this what you mean by "bleed over"?

 

[ibanezgtr]

I have tried some other digital effects units I had, in the loop and am realizing that they are all giving me the weird sound on high gain settings. I guess the timefactor isn't the problem, maybe my loop doesn't like anything digital.. Anyone have this problem?

 

[screamingdaisy]

Joe I also notice that with channel 3 modern on I can't get my ernie ball 25k volume pedal to have zero sound when rolled all the way off, for volume swells etc. It is in my loop before the time factor. I guess the signal is just too hot with the gain up on that channel, any suggestions? Is this what you mean by "bleed over"?

As you probably know, one of the problems with their parallel loop design was that lots of people would have problems when they tried to use digital pedals that didn't have a killdry option. What would happen is that the dry part of the signal would go direct from preamp to power amp via the mixer, while the wet part would be converted from analog to digital, effected, then converted back to analog. The A/D/A conversion would cause a slight latency and the latent signal would blend back in with the dry signal slightly out of phase... giving a phasing effect.

Further, one of the other issues with a parallel loop is that using a volume pedal in the loop would be unable to mute the channel.

Long story short, it kind of sounds like that amp may not have a 100% serial loop.... for whatever reason (could be to reduce/eliminate popping when switching the loop in/out of bypass?) it still seems to have some signal bleeding through it.

 

[joe web]

Joe I also notice that with channel 3 modern on I can't get my ernie ball 25k volume pedal to have zero sound when rolled all the way off, for volume swells etc. It is in my loop before the time factor. I guess the signal is just too hot with the gain up on that channel, any suggestions? Is this what you mean by "bleed over"?

yes, this is what i mean with "bleed over".
and i have recognized it with my roadster (serial loop) as well as with my 2005 3-ch dual recto set the mix to 100%. i did the serial loop mod on the dual recto and the bleed over is still there, not much, but it´s there.
but this is not a general mesa problem, our other guitarplayer uses a diezel herbert and he has the same "bleed over" with his amp.
at normal playing level with a band, it isn´t noticeable, but at low levels it could cause problems i guess.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I wonder if they maintain that small amount of bleed over to avoid popping when a loop is switched in/out?

 

[ibanezgtr]

Yep, I would say so. Both of my Triple Rectifiers do the same. 2004 / 2010 Also does your rectifier "pop" when you change channels? My 2004 does bad, but my 2010 reborn is dead silent switching channels.