Tone or skill ? What should come first ?

[metal190]

I can't help but mention that part of Petrucci sounding like Petrucci even through a lonestar may be a direct result of Petrucci relying heavily on the lonestar in his rig.

Anyway, I think we're saying the same thing, its just a question of semantics. I absolutely agree that part of the way you play can basically dictate your tone - and the better you get, the more this becomes true. The point has been made that certain guitarists could easily be picked out even if they were on different amps, but I would maintain that this is because of their style (which includes a huge number of very tone influencing techniques). Because there will be a net change in the composite tone. I challenge anyone to get a 15 watt Behringer starter amp to sound like a Mark IV. There are too many other factors that also inform tone. Even if you played with the same guitar, the same picking style, fretting style, etc. the tone will sound vastly different.

So I guess at the end of the day I would propose a breakdown where your playing style comprises a huge part, as does the guitar you play (and the countless components within the guitar), the amp you play, etc.

Is a large part of tone in the hands? Sure! Is 100% of the tone coming out of your amp coming uninfluenced from your hands? In my opinion, no.

Fun and intersting topic.

 

[djw]

I can't help but mention that part of Petrucci sounding like Petrucci even through a lonestar may be a direct result of Petrucci relying heavily on the lonestar in his rig.

Yep, that's why I picked that example! My point was that he'd probably know how to get more out of it than I do.

Anyway, I think we're saying the same thing, its just a question of semantics. I absolutely agree that part of the way you play can basically dictate your tone - and the better you get, the more this becomes true. The point has been made that certain guitarists could easily be picked out even if they were on different amps, but I would maintain that this is because of their style (which includes a huge number of very tone influencing techniques). Because there will be a net change in the composite tone. I challenge anyone to get a 15 watt Behringer starter amp to sound like a Mark IV. There are too many other factors that also inform tone. Even if you played with the same guitar, the same picking style, fretting style, etc. the tone will sound vastly different.

I totally agree. I guess there's also a semantics issue in the original question, which at this point I completely forget. :lol: The common issue seems to be: I can play the notes, but I don't sound anything like the original. And much of it is the gear, but I think a lot of young players haven't hipped themselves yet to the fact that, contrary to the GC ads, the gear is only a small part of the equation.

I think your point about style consistency across rigs being distinct from tonal consistency across rigs is dead-on.

Is a large part of tone in the hands? Sure! Is 100% of the tone coming out of your amp coming uninfluenced from your hands? In my opinion, no.

We might diverge here a little... I think you're saying, Is 100% of the tone coming out of your amp influenced by your hands? No... right? If that's what you're saying, then I'd say I agree BUT I think with really strong players, that percentage goes up.

Fun and intersting topic.

Yes indeed! Thanks for engaging!

 

[metal190]

Yes. Agreed. You're in East Bay? Let's jam.

(I learned this whole lesson we've been talking about the hard way. In fact, it took me a while to learn it. First tube amp: 5150. At that point I probably actually thought I sounded like EVH, minus the skills. Many years later I bought the JP-7 I currently have and spent the next couple years trying to come to grips with the fact that I couldn't get it to sound anything like JP. Enter the Road King. Still couldn't get it to sound like Train of Thought! Bought a few of the pieces from his rack. No luck. Finally bagged the idea and started playing my LP through it and started finding some tones I loved. Incorporated back in some of the other equipment, and even started playing with the JP again and found my own tones. Now I sound nothing like Petrucci, but I love what I found along the way.

 

[djw]

Yo bro! Let's do it! Especially if that means I get a taste of that RKII of yours! :wink: PM me sometime.

 

[CGM]

Tone is King.....it comes through your fingers , but it starts with the way you put your feet on the floor. Everything else is secondary.

 

[mortalman]

Great songs are what matters to the average listener,and what made the great players so famous. Tone and ability with out a song is like a plane with no fuel. I think floyd would of been just as great no matter what amp gilmour would of used.

 

[CGM]

Tone is King. Period. Ask Miles. You don't need songs. Ask Bach. Floyd is great, with or without songs. It's the tone, instrument or voice. The average listner doesn't have good taste. I use to have a guitar teacher that made me practice in a dark room with a solidbody without an amp. He said if I couldnt get good tone with just wood and wire , I couldnt get good tone. By the time you have tone you will have ability. Of course ...this is just my opinion.....

 

[trem]

Floyd was already great without Gilmour. Not that I have anything against him.

 

[BobL]

Tone is what you make it. Tone is subjective and in the ears of the beholder and the equation is simple.

A+E+Eq = T

Ability + Ear + Equipment = Tone

Expressed as;

Question:

A begginer purchases a cheap rig and practices every day. As he learns to play he also buys better equipment. Who will arrive in town town first? The beginner or the rig.

Answer:

They both arrive at the same time.

 

[jdurso]

i will say something on the gear front, it definitely influences style in my eyes. whether that translates to good tone is up to the listener. last few days i've been really digging on the roadster channel 1 with the OCD in front and a little delay and reverb which is pretty normal for me but what i've done different in the last few weeks was use the coil tap on my prs in the bridge position....

now here's my point: i cannot achieve that sound/tone unless i have my gear setup that way. the gear is in no way making me play better, but the gear's ability to give me that tone influenced greatly how and what i was playing. all of asudden int eh past few weeks i've started developing a new style (for me) and in my eyes improved my playing. if the tone of those settings wasn't pleasing to my ear i probably wouldnt have taken the path i'm on now.

so does gear make the tone? no of course it doesn't.
can it provide a catalyst to become better or make you play more/different stuff? absolutely... there's only so many tones one piece of gear can get you which is why there are so many guitars/amps/fx out there and why so many of us have multiples of each. so in my eyes gear has a lot to do with your tone as it can dictate your style and can provide a platform to progress further than another piece of gear. in no way am i saying good gear = good tone, but in the same respect talent doesnt always equal good tone. if there were an equation it would be good gear + talent = good tone