Stiletto or Bogner

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AndyKE

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Hello there all,
i lately tested a Stiletto. Due to lack of time i only could check out the clean channel, but was major impressed. Came home and listened to some video`s on You tube. Found some really good clips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihSGJ4tS228
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y37MV7H8xWI

I think that must be the best sounding clips i came across on You tube.
Now i am gasin for a Stiletto. The only amp i could think of that would be interesting for me otherwise would be a Bogner Shiva maybe an XTC.

I want a fat, organic, warm sound like Andy Timmons, Eric Johnson, Joe Bonamassa.
Which of the mentioned amps would you prefer and why.
By the way i will go back to the store and do some further testing.
Thanks for every input!

Amps i have: Marshall JVM,
Amps i had: Peavey JSX, Diezel Einstein
 
I own a Stiletto and in tite/fat clean mode using Diode section w/ a good tube Driver Pedal = full organic warm smooth dynamic type of tone. very pleasing tone in my opinion. Stiletto's can achieve such a wide array of tone that is what makes them special.

Never played a Bogner, but i have heard them being played in concert and on sound clips. Bogner's kick major ***. Especially the Shiva and EXctasy models.

I know you didn't ask a question about Carvin Legacy amp but i will share it with you anyways because i am pretty sure (read this somewhere actually) Bogner worked with Vai to design the first vai modeled legacy amp (Vai use to play a Bogner) so maybe it has some merit in describing a little bit of the voicing of the Bogner amps .I own a Legacy combo amp as well and also enjoy its voicing. It has a very woody warm smooth type of high gain distortion That is Extremely Dynamic and unique. A great amp for melodic Vintage/classical type rock stuff/lead work. The legacy also has a nice clean channel that sounds great.

Stiletto is very tight sounding on all of its frequency ranges. Meaning it is very responsive to how you play. That being said it is also very DYNAMIC as well.

My legacy compared to my Stiletto is just as Dynamic, but doesn't have same sort of tightness to it. ANother words its a little looser sounding, "especially on the low end of the amp". The Legacy has a Bassier Low end than my stiletto head (that is comparing them with similar EQ settings (both at noon lets say), but its just looser/flubbier on the low end compared to my ace head/ rec cab combination.

when i run my legacy combo through to my rec extension cab I find myself turning the bass to around 9 0clock MID noon Treb 2 0clock pres 3 oclock volume is up high and drive is around 2 oclock ( at least that is what i have it set to right now as i look over at its settings :) . That being said i know that if i changed out the power tubes it would tighten up the lower end (tubes are a couple yrs old now)

So many people say that the Stilettos are bright sounding. its this inherent natural presence and treble voicing that are inherent in the tite gain and fluid drive modes of the dirty channel of the amp. I think most people are complaining about the tight gain and fluid drive mode when they say its bright. If you are worried about this turn down the treb and presence on the channels to 9 0clockish and go from there make sure you have your output around noonish and your master over noon as well for the tone of these particular modes of the drive channel to come alive and sound bright in a good sort of way. Not to mention that running an eq in your loop can completely change the voicing of this channel. Have you ever been to a show or for that matter played in a loud environment and heard a sweet beautiful tone come out of someones guitar that you could hear and it sounded loud when the guy was doing sound check but then as soon as the rest of the band was playing you couldn't even hear the guitar tone cut through the mix. Well the Stiletto was designed to cut through especially in the two modes that I was just talking about.
OR like I first mentioned you can run a tube driver pedal in the clean Channel of the amp and go really dark and creamy sounding with the stiletto.
I have been to an Andy TImmons Guitar Clinic. Timmons uses a tube driver pedal in the clean channel of his stilletto amp tight cln diode i believe. CHeck out a BK Butler/chandler tube driver pedal for that Eric JOhnson David Gilmour, and Timmons all use these pedals from time to time.

Of course a Bk Butler Tube driver pedal new goes for around 350 so its not cheap :D

Good luck with your decision making. You cant go wrong with either Mesa or Bogner.

"... guitarists shouldn't get too riled up about all of the great players that were left off of 'Rolling Stone Magazines' list of the Greatest Guitar Players of all Time' ... Rolling Stone is published for people who read the magazine because they don't know what to wear ..." - Joe (Sach) Satriani
 
Thanks a lot for answering so detailed.
If you just could have one amp, would it be the Legacy or the Stiletto?

Best Andy
 
Bogner makes and has made a lot of amps ..... this is a very open question.

Comparing one model to one model is one thing..... but this is too vague a question.

Kind of like comparing a new Toyota Camry with all the cars Ford has made since 1920.

What amp I would want would very much depend on what style of music and applications I was planning on using it for.

Bogner and Mesa both make great amps.

..... The new 20th Anniversary Ecstasy is a great amp to say the least.
 
stephen sawall said:
Bogner makes and has made a lot of amps ..... this is a very open question.

Comparing one model to one model is one thing..... but this is too vague a question.

Kind of like comparing a new Toyota Camry with all the cars Ford has made since 1920.

What amp I would want would very much depend on what style of music and applications I was planning on using it for.

Bogner and Mesa both make great amps.

..... The new 20th Anniversary Ecstasy is a great amp to say the least.

Yes. Thanks a lot for answering.
 
AndyKE said:
What amp I would want would very much depend on what style of music and applications I was planning on using it for.

very true the AndyKe said he wanted an amp with a fat, organic, warm sound like Andy Timmons, Eric Johnson, Joe Bonamassa. a Stiletto in fatclean or tite clean diode mode with a tube driver will you get you there somewhat.

Someone needs to comment on the Shiva or XTCy because i have never had the opportunity to play one so i can't speak on whether or not they can produce a tone given the right tweaking or tube driver pedals combinations to attain what the op said and that being a real warm type of tone. I am sure that the shiva and xtcy can do both as well
 
AndyKE said:
Thanks a lot for answering so detailed.
If you just could have one amp, would it be the Legacy or the Stiletto?

Best Andy

I think for the mere standpoint that the Stiletto has a wider array of tone's at its disposal due to all the different modes it has and the option of going tube rectification or diodes i would have to say the stiletto, but that is not to say i don't enjoy playing the legacy. I want to check out the new legacy II model for i know i will miss my legacy when its gone. i am in the process of selling my legacy actually so i can buy a bk butler tube driver to compliment my stiletto's clean channel and modes predominantly to get a killer warm/bluesy type of gain as another option when playing and or composing songs.

by the way if you were to get a stiletto i would recommend a head/ rec cab instead of the combo i didn't care for the combo ACE as much for it was a little bit thinner/brighter sounding than a 50 watt head with a 2x12 rec cab. I like the rec cabs better than the stiletto cabs. more beffier sounding imo.

do some research, listen to sound clips, and most important play the amps you are thinking about buying before you make a decision
 
I have both the Stiletto Deuce II and the Legacy II...

The differences I hear between the two amps are as follows.

The Stiletto has more bells and whistles for sure.... more things to tinker with.

The build quality seems pretty close however I have never opened either amp to look inside. Both feel rugged IMO

The Stiletto has an edge that to me is always there. It has a thinner/cutting feel to it.

Both amps cleans are very good with the Stiletto sounding a bit more like a Fender and the Legacy II sounding more like an acoustic guitar. The Legacy II sounds pretty much exactly like the sound Steve Vai gets in "Sisters" and "The Boy from Seattle". It just has a very cool jangly acoustic quality that the Stiletto doesn't have yet you can get rid of it without the presence button engaged and then it's all jazz.

The Stiletto has more gain that I really do wish the Legacy II had on tap.... yet with my BB preamp it's not really an issue.

The Legacy II is a lot easier to dial in and with the controls being passive nothing else changes when you adjust any to the tone controls or the master so once you get your sound you've got it and you're off to just playing.

The tube rectifier and diode is a nice feature.... I wish the Legacy II had it... yet with the 100, 50, 25 watt switch on the Legacy II you can change the feel of the amp in ways very similar to the Stilettos bold/spongy and diode/tube rectifier options. Different ways of doing things that get similar results. I'm sure the signal path is shorter in the Legacy II.

The effects loops is plug n play on the Legacy....

The Legacy is Midi capable and can also take 6L6 tubes

Both are nice amps.

I think the Legacy II is actually closer sounding to the Electra Dyne than the Stiletto. The Legacy is fat and very smooth and just has really nice harmonic qualities. Very nice Eric Johnson plexi tones in it. It's the closest Plexi sounding amp I've ever played next to the Plexi I used to own :(
I can't get plexi sounds out of my Stilletto. Both amps do the hot rodded JCM 800 vibe extremely well.

I'd still take a Bogner Ecstasy over either of them though :)
 
AndyKE said:
Came home and listened to some video`s on You tube. Found some really good clips:

this clip i believe gives a good idea as to a possible voicing that this amp can attain in its dirty channel in the fluid drive mode. I am guessing he is probably using tube rectification mode as well. this clip give an example IMO of the "bite" in a good sort of way that this amp is capable of attaining while only some delay effects. The tite gain mode has a tad less "bite" to its voicing and i actually predominantly use this mode the most in the dirty channel of the amp.

good playing by the way :)

http://www.youtube.com/user/bduersch
 
If it's too bright, just back down on the master volumes, and compensate for the drop in volume with the output knob. That way, you reduce the brightness going into the poweramp section, and introduce more low and low mids into your tone via the poweramp section...
 
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