Speaker for the Mesa Mark V: 35??? Any thoughts???

[MillstheHawk]

Hey guys. Im new to the Boogie Board. I bought a Mark V 35 head a few weeks ago and absolutely love the amp. Im using a custom built semi open back oversized 1x12 cab, but Im not sure what speaker to roll with. Ive tried a Celestion G12h30 and a Creamback M65. Im not totally sold on either speaker though. I play mostly blues, classic rock and etc. Ive found myself living on the crunch and Mark IV settings, but I do love the cleans on the fat setting. Im looking for a speaker that doesn't compromise any of this amps tones. My friend has the combo version and has tried the c90, v30 and EVM12L. He swears that the EVM12L is the way to go. Would love any input you guys might have. Cheers

 

[xdg999]

I use a mesa ms-12 speaker with my Mark v 25. I tried the evm12l but went back to the ms-12. The evm12l was too articulate for me. I like the way the ms-12 smears the mids. To my ears it sounds smoother and warmer than the evm12l.

 

[screamingdaisy]

I prefer the Vintage 30 (specifically, the OEM Mesa version).

IMO, the MC90 is good if you're after more of a old school sound. It has edgier highs and bigger lows with a touch less mids (relative to the V30).

The V30 is more modern. Lots of mids with rolled off highs and lows. Very punchy.

It's been a decade since I had an EVM-12L so I don't remember the details, but I found it bland and boring. I think it pairs well with a speaker that has more character, but on its own... let's just say that it wasn't my bag.

 

[Monstercastle]

I'm liking the C90 in the widebody closed Mesa cab. Also have the traditional Mesa 412 with V30s and I prefer the relaxed mids in the widebody a bit more.

 

[Fernando]

Hey guys. Im new to the Boogie Board. I bought a Mark V 35 head a few weeks ago and absolutely love the amp. Im using a custom built semi open back oversized 1x12 cab, but Im not sure what speaker to roll with. Ive tried a Celestion G12h30 and a Creamback M65. Im not totally sold on either speaker though. I play mostly blues, classic rock and etc. Ive found myself living on the crunch and Mark IV settings, but I do love the cleans on the fat setting. Im looking for a speaker that doesn't compromise any of this amps tones. My friend has the combo version and has tried the c90, v30 and EVM12L. He swears that the EVM12L is the way to go. Would love any input you guys might have. Cheers

I'm kinda wondering the same thing about speakers.... I've had a MIII combo and thieles loaded with EVM12L's, their gone now, but they sounded great, imho... no speaker is "neutral" but i just loved the "umph" and the "clearness" that an EV has, no excess mids.., especially in a thiele...

I am now looking at a combo V:35, but want to avoid the weight of an EV, so I'm looking at the Fillmore as a replacement, the MC90 is interesting, but since I've heard the recto 25 with a fillmore on the mesa site, it has really sparked my interest. I doubt i will be able to demo a v:35 with a fillmore and a MC90, so your opinions really matter to me, taking into account ymmv :wink:

anyways, a question to millsthehawk, your buddy that has the v:35 combo loaded with the EVM12L, did it fit straight off? the MIII was pretty tight with such a huge magnet, but there was clearence since it was front-loaded. The V:35 is back-loaded according to all the pics i've seen...how is the spacing of the EVM12L in the V:35? I just may go with the EV again if the Fillmore, or MC90 doesn't really do it for me... thanks! peace...

 

[diddlydan]

There is a way to test what speaker you like without having to purchase or install the speaker.You will need a computer,some recording software and an interface though.Just connect the slave out on the back of the V out to the interface and record a few chords.It will sound awful as its the sound of the amp with no speaker.Then simply purchase some impulse responses of the speakers you are interested in, and using a some free impulse response software you can easily flick through the different speakers and hear how they sound.Its a cheap and easy way to get a solid idea how well a speaker will pair with the V.

 

[MillstheHawk]

Fernando- I haven't had a chance to see/hear it yet, but he didn't say that he had any issues installing it into his combo, so I'm guessing it fit right in nicely. I talked to him tonight and he said he gigged with the combo, plus a Mesa 1x12 extension cabinet loaded w/ another EVM12L in it. He swears the EVM12L is the way to go. I saw where that speaker weighs 18lbs, so that is definitely something I'm going to consider before buying. I'm curious how the Eminence version stacks up to the EVM. Definitely is a lighter speaker which I'm sure affects the tone in one way or another

 

[phreeman123]

I just found this thread doing a google search trying to see if anyone else has used the EVM12L with the Mark V: 35. I am MillsThehawks friend haha.

The stock speaker sounded boxy so I tried a V30 I had laying around. It sounded nice. Then I tried a friends Thiele with an EVM12L under my combo. They sounded great together so I ordered a Thiele and a 12L to go along with it. I really liked the sound of the Thiele with the 12L by itself. So I decided to try another 12L in my combo. The sound of the two 12L's was massive and smooth. I feel like the amps eq is free to improve the sound not to fix a speakers short comings.

The 12L is a tight fit in the combo. I had to remove the chassis and the reverb pan to fit it in, but they went back in with no problem. The fan is real close to the speaker frame but it's not an issue. The footswitch still fits in the bag with no problems. It did add weight but it is still manageable. Nowhere near as heavy as a Mark V with an EV.

Tone is subjective so this may not be for everyone but for me its a winner. I used the 4cm with my axe fx ii at my gig last night and it sounded so good that i am considering selling my axe fx and getting the fractal fx8. Seriously, I have not been this pleased with my tone in years.

 

[Fernando]

thank you diddley dan, millsthehawk and phreeman123 for your replies!

hearing those comments on the ev are really helpful...i may just have to order the v:35 with the Fillmore, since i had been considering ordering the combo without a speaker, but in previous posts on this forum, the official "mesa" word was that the price difference was not that great between no speaker and the stock speaker, so I'll try the fillmore for awhile, and then make the jump back to an ev if i'm not "feeling" it. phreeman123, your description of the ev in the combo and thiele are bringing back good vibes... The fillmore cost just as much as the stock celestion, so i imagine the only thing will be to have to wait, since it is a special order. The effort of swapping out the speaker should be pretty straight forward and very similar to pulling the chassis on a mIII, which i've done a few times back in the day..lol...thanks for those tips!

i will also have to try the speaker emulation tip from diddlydan, cool tip, i had not thought of that...

don't want the celestion speaker to feel like i don't appreciate it..lol... back when i was active as a live player, most of the backlines were marshall half-stacks... i learned to dial in a kick-butt hard rock sound with my charvel model 6 wired up with sd live wire classics.. i'm dating myself now..lol.. celestions, for me, come into their own in a 4 way closed back cab, where the bass really thumps and mixes well with the mid bump the speakers have, depending on the model, obviously. the added brightness from the cranked el34's are the icing on the cake... the late gary moore was one of the players whose sound made me drool...and of course there is also EVH...lol

if i had more money, more space to store stuff, and more muscle, besides boogie, i'd have a marshall half stack, a dumble combo, etc... bla bla bla...lol... anyways.. take care... peace

 

[Shai`tan]

For my V 25 I am using a vertical 2X12 cab with EVM-12S Series IIs... they are redbacks(labels) REALLY nice with my V 25. Might not be a bad speaker for the V 35.

 

[phreeman123]

Fernando, Check out the Eminence CV-75. It is very similar to the Fillmore 75. I my try a pair in my dads Mark V:35 combo and Thiele rig. He is not crazy about the c90s and does not like the EVM12Ls as much as I do.

 

[toneseeker911]

I've tried the V30s and G12H30 in a 2x12 combination. I couldn't bond with the V30s, it sounded harsh to me, maybe it needed more break-in time. The G12H30 was good but something was still missing. I never got a good mic'd up sound with the V30s either, I just couldn't find the sweet spot.
I then got a couple of Eminence Cannabis Rex speakers and was totally blown away. It's a very warm sound that pairs nicely with the mark v distortion. Cleans are good too, though the G12H30 might have been a tad better. I'm mostly going for a hard rock (not totally modern) rhythm and a fat lead tone. These also sound great mic'd up slightly off center.

 

[elvis]

I demo'd two combos against each other - one with C90 and the other with V30. For me, I like the added mid saturation, so the V30 won hands-down. But it loses low-end, so I would pair it with a Thiele to fill in the lows. I was able to try that at the same time and it was very good. Pairing with the widebody closed back was even better, but an awkward form-factor. Both the Thiele and widebody I tried had V30. I have a Thiele at home with C90, I will try that as well before I make a final decision.

I love the tone that I get from my RA100, but I am dying to replace it with something lighter.

 

[dodger916]

I use a mesa ms-12 speaker with my Mark v 25. I tried the evm12l but went back to the ms-12. The evm12l was too articulate for me. I like the way the ms-12 smears the mids. To my ears it sounds smoother and warmer than the evm12l.

+1. It's my favorite speaker for a Mark amp, coupled with an EVM-loaded Thiele.

 

[bandit2013]

I voted for "other". So far my favorite speaker that I am currently using with my Mark V combo is the Jensen Jet Black Bird 100W Alnico. Once it is broken in, it is the best I have heard yet. I was considering getting rid of my Mark V before I decided another chance with a different speaker. Had an EVM12L black label in it for a while, great speaker but at lower volume the bass becomes more dominant, at higher volume the treble is more pronounced. I could not get past the Love/hate relationship with the Mark V. I took the risk and bought a Jensen Jet Black Bird and now I love the Mark V combo. I am really bonding with the amp and I no longer want to give it up. Also note: the bell can be removed if necessary as it is only a decorative cover. I was able to rear mount the speaker with the Bell cover in place but had to remove the footswitch bag that was mounted on the inside of the back panel.

Long Version of my response to your question:
If you are using an semi open back cab, the V30 may sound muddy with higher gain settings. That was the issue I had with the V30 pair in my RA100 Combo. I opted for Celestion Creamback G12H75 and could not be happier. However, with a different amp it may appear to sound a bit on the nasal tone (ran the Roadster head and Mark V through the RA100 Combo speakers and did not seem to bond with that). If you like the V30 tone, you need to have a sealed cab for it otherwise the mids will dominate the tone. Also depends on the dimension of your cabinet as that will alter the characteristic of any speaker you use in it. So far with my Mark V, I have tried V30 4x12 (15 year old cab) too dang bright so I changed the speakers to all EVM12L BL. I restored the cab back to the original V30 for use with a Roadster head, converted my V to a combo and installed one EV in the amp. Sounded awesome running two EV's (one in an oversized 1x12 cab 1/4 open back). I got tired of the EV speakers due to the style of the cone, smooth face and fiber dust cap can make for a bright speaker especially if it lacks the ribs on the cone. I opted for a different speaker and so far I love it. Jensen Jet Black Bird 100W Alnico. Wow, best clean channel sounding speaker ever. Perfect for acoustic tone to blues. I am blown away with it. The more I play though the amp and break in the speaker the more I love it. Sounds really great with the CH2 and CH3 settings too. The tone of the Jensen Black Bird is similar to the EV as it has a similar frequency response, it may be a few db lower at higher volume but the low end does not dominate at lower volume like the EV did. It is well balanced and really digs in. However if I wanted to go full tilt and blast the house, the EV is the better choice for a 90W or higher amp. I actually prefer the Jensen Black Bird. It will take some time to break in, the high gain channels did sound a bit funky at first so I took it easy pushing the speaker with the CH2 and CH3 for a while. Definitely worked it on CH1 (clean). After having it for a few months, it outshines the MC90, EVM12L. My first ALNICO speaker I tried was a WGS Black Hawk HP100, sounded great with the Mark V at first, that was mounted in a Mark IVb Combo. However it did not survive the break in process as the Mark IVb overheated the voice coil. It took on a honky tone. I have tried it in my V3MC practice amp and it sounded terrible. (I would not recommend the WGS Black Hawk HP100 for an amp that outputs more than 50W.).

 

[dodger916]

I voted for "other". So far my favorite speaker that I am currently using with my Mark V combo is the Jensen Jet Black Bird 100W Alnico.

I think people tend to overlook alnico speakers, probably due to high cost. Alnico has a pleasant, distinct, vintage-y voice. I've been drifting away from the typical Celestion/EVM/Eminence ceramic choices and venturing into lower wattage, less efficient (lower SPL) speakers. The reduction of a few decibels in SPL makes a huge reduction in volume. People often comment how loud Mesa amps are; using very efficient (~100 dB) speakers contributes to the big volume. Having recently purchased a 1966 Fender Pro Reveb (the little-known, 40 watt kid brother to the Twin, running 2x6L6s), I've been experimenting with low-wattage (35-50 watt) vintage Jensens, Utahs, Oxfords, etc.. It's opened up a new world of tone for me where speaker distortion is a big part of it.

Caution MUST be exercised as lower wattage speakers are easily blown, but it's fun to explore the benefits of speaker distortion! For big venues that allow an amp to be cranked, high wattage/efficient speakers are the way to go, but for clubs and smaller venues (home), I've been using these lower wattage speakers with SPLs around 94 to 96 watts with unexpectedly pleasant results.

 

[bandit2013]

Trick with the ALNICO type speaker, break it in gradually. The magnet type should not matter much. The magnetic field strength is reasonable for the smaller mass when compared to the ceramic type. One characteristic of the ALNICO is that it will not loose its magnetism at high temperatures. However, sudden shock to the magnet may result in permanent loss of the magnetic field. You would really have to hit it extremely hard with a steel hammer.

If you want vintage, they usually have the lower power rated coils due to the construction of the voice coil. There is no reason why a speaker manufacturer cannot build an ALNICO speaker with a higher power rated voice coil. Black Bird is 100W RMS rated, Musical power is 200W (? not sure what the units of measure are for this rating) Sensitivity is 98dB. The Bode plot for the speaker (frequency response) is similar to the EV speaker. The difference between the two would be the dB rating, and the high frequencies are not as sharp as the EV speaker. The black bird performs much better at lower power settings as it responds well to lower level signals. Pushing the speaker at 90W is also impressive. The more I use the amp the better the speaker is sounding. Hands down, the Black Bird sounds the best on the clean channel. I have yet to hear a better sounding speaker. After a few months use, the higher gain channels are getting closer to the EV when pushed but yet does not have the glass breaking high frequencies as there is a bit more roll off and smoothness on the top.

For a combo, I am happy I took the risk with the Black Bird as it seems to be a better fit with the Mark V than the EVM12L Black Label speaker. I was weary about this type of speaker due to my experience with the WGS version (Black Hawk HP100), burned the voice coil when I had it installed in a Mark IVb combo, after that it took on a nasal tone. Before smoking the voice coil, it sounded great with the Mark V head which is the reason I converted the V to a combo.

 

[Bobbimon]

I've had a Mark V 35 for a few years. I have never really liked the clean sound unless I used an extension cab. I put a Jensen Blackbird 100 alnico speaker in the amp last week. The clean sound is really nice and has a much more open sound compared to the Celestion Black Shadow. it is an expensive upgrade but worth every penny. The amp now works great for smaller Jazz or Blues gigs as well as Rock gigs.

 

[Tom hackings]

Thiele loaded with celestion redback 8.
I play classic rock. Both clean and mark 2c mode sounds very very goog. And it could be very loud. And i can take all what i need by myself

 

[pmac11]

Try an Eminence Swamp Thang.