So. Is a Blue Angel "Pure Class A"

[Murphy Slaw]

Not to kick a dead horse, but the other thread got kid of lost.

It either is. Or it isn't. It clearly says it is, on the front, right next to where it says it's a dual rectifier. (but I only see one, and that's never been explained either, is one invisable?)

I don't see where this is open to opinions.

Is it "Pure Class A" on ANY of the three tube settings?

I don't need, or want to read a freakin book about theory, I'm thinking more or less about a.....

Yes.

Or a ........

No.......

Simple question.

 

[phyrexia]

I think by the textbook definition of Class A, the answer is "no".

 

[Murphy Slaw]

I STILL like it!

No, I love it.......

Still never did figure out the dual rectifier thing either, though?

 

[waxnsteel]

I'm pretty sure I've heard 2x6V6 - Tube recto 4xEL84 - tube, Simul-link - SS rectifier. => dual rectifier. I love mine, too.

 

[MasterTrax]

#1 Why does it matter, as it will sound exactly the same whether it is class A or not.

#2 There is not a general consensus as to what class A actually means, although the most strict defintion calls for a single ended power circuit with constant voltage to the power tube whether at idle or at full throttle

#3 Dual rectifier means that it has both a solid state rectifier and a tube rectifier and you can switch between them to siut your taste.

FWIW I like the Blue Angel and I think it excels at what it was designed for, which is blues and vintage low to medium gain tones.

 

[simonich]

Actually, the definition of class A is fixed. There is clearly a consensus on what it means. The issue is that most guitar amps that claim to be class A are not. The vast majority of guitar amplifiers that claim to be Class A are actually something called "cathode biased," which really has nothing to do with the class of operation. (and note, class A amps can be single-ended OR push-pull.)

Class-A operation means the device conducts current over 100% of the input cycle (basically). It fact, it always conducts, even for no input signal, and so the device always draws current from the supply. Thus, the tube always operates in the Linear region, never into Saturation or Cutoff, for a bounded input level (but we all know us guitar players push beyond a bounded input. ).

So here's what's good about Class-A. The output is always (well, mostly) in the Linear operating space of the device. Because of the better linearity, there will be fewer harmonics generated and thus less distortion. (Note that this was the original intent decades ago - amplification *without* distortion.) The penalty is that the device is always conducting, drawing current from the supply, and dissipating heat. It is only about 20-50% efficient.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

Still one of the finest roots amp ever built.

I'm gonna start hording them!

Blue Angel.

 

[MasterTrax]

Simonich, I'm glad you have reached a consensus. Maybe you can alert those amp companies who can't seem to follow suit.

Murphy Slaw, I forgot to mention that I think you have a very cool user name. I love it! Like a guy goes to a catfish restaurant and instead of choking to death on a fish bone he chokes on Murphy slaw....

....heh, sorry...... :lol:

 

[phyrexia]

Murphy Slaw, I forgot to mention that I think you have a very cool user name. I love it! Like a guy goes to a catfish restaurant and instead of choking to death on a fish bone he chokes on Murphy slaw....

....heh, sorry...... :lol:

BOOOO :twisted: :lol:

 

[simonich]

MasterTrax, it's not I that has reached consensus, rather it's the engineers designing tubes. And that was DECADES ago. The issue with GUITAR AMP MFGs is they are MARKETING amps as Class A that are not Class A. I'm sure this is your point. But I can assure you the designers are not confused as to what Class A means.

So please don't confuse marketing that attempts to classify cathode-biased circuits as Class A with there being no consensus on what Class A means. Class A means what is stated above. Period.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

So please don't confuse marketing that attempts to classify cathode-biased circuits as Class A with there being no consensus on what Class A means. Class A means what is stated above. Period.

I whole-heartedly agree. If an amp manufacturer stated that the amp was 2 channel, and in fact, it only had one, nobody would take it seriously. Most people would say something derogatory and move on to the next amp.

My DC-3 is now Cathode Bias, but it does not run anywhere near Class A.

Marketing is marketing and will never change. They will stretch the truth so far that eventually the masses of consumers start to believe anything.

 

[MasterTrax]

Simonich, you said: "The issue with GUITAR AMP MFGs is they are MARKETING amps as Class A that are not Class A. I'm sure this is your point."

Absolutely. That is exactly my point. Further, there are not nearly as many class A amps out there as the consumer is constantly led to believe. You also did a much better job of explaining it to the OP than I did.

Monsta-tone, you wrote: "If an amp manufacturer stated that the amp was 2 channel, and in fact, it only had one, nobody would take it seriously. Most people would say something derogatory and move on to the next amp."

Heh...isn't that what Mesa did with the Subway and Rocket series amps?

Phyrexia, you wrote: "BOOOO :twisted: :lol: "

Heckler. :shock:

 

[RR]

Not to beat a dead horse, but the other thread got kind of lost...

Heck, everyone talks about Point-to-point -vs- pc board which sounds better. I'm sure someone could fool me building a "vintage" circuity amp on a pc board and I can't tell the difference.

 

[RocksOff]

heh... a well built amp can be either pcb or p2p. it really makes no difference. i challenge most "conisseurs" to tell the difference. And let's not forget... there were a ton of p2p amps over the years that sounded like a dog farting thru a sandwich bag. These are all bandwagon issues. If you like the way an amp sounds, then buy it! If you buy into the whole "I'm buying this cuz it says Class A" or what-not, you will be disappointed. Just get the damned amp that sounds good to your ears! 'Nuff said!

 

[waxnsteel]

#3 Dual rectifier means that it has both a solid state rectifier and a tube rectifier and you can switch between them to siut your taste.

There's no rectifier selector switch.

 

[Monsta-Tone]

Dual Rectifier....

It's a really weird design. If you look at the drawings, the Power Tubes, Reverb Tube, & FX Loop are powered by the Tube Rectifier. These are points A, B, C, & D.

The remainder of the Preamp Tubes, the tubes for the channel itself, are fed by a Silicon Diode Rectifier. This is point E.


I guess they were trying to keep the preamp from sagging and distorting early.




Anyway, slap a Celestion Heritage 30 in the 1x12 model and watch the amp come to life. Mine came with a Vintage Black Shadow 50 watt Eminence that sounded pretty much like.....

a dog farting thru a sandwich bag

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[RocksOff]

i knew someone would like that... heh.

 

[MasterTrax]

HA! No rec switch? Then it must run a tube rec and SS rec at the same time.

 

[shadowbox]

I STILL like it!

No, I love it.......

I'm with ya...I love my Blue Angel, pure class A or otherwise....

 

[Murphy Slaw]

Wow, you brought back an old thread!

When I started it, I'd only had the Angel for a few months, but it gigs every weekend. I knew then I liked it, but didn't like being B.S.'d if it wasn't "pure class A".

Four more months of gigging (and a flight case) with it, I still argue it's one of the best designed amps that's ever been built by ANYBODY. People that need 4 channels, 8 modes, then another amp with more options so they can a/b em', a pile of effects and three guitars on stage will never get this rig.

But a (pretty much) class A EL84 amp with a NORMAL (non master) channel is a beautiful thing to work clubs with. Dr. Z has been selling a few.

Best of luck.

Murph.