Simul-class or not, what is the difference ?

[djemass]

HI,

I own a MarkIIC without simul class that I will send to M.B to upgrade to IIc+. What is actually simul class technology and how it will improve the tone ?

Thanks

Djemass

 

[Stu Gutz]

It won't *improve* the tone. It will change it to be a little smoother. You will lose some "purity" of your tone and some bottom end.

 

[djemass]

thanks for the quick answer

br

djemass

 

[Boogiebabies]

It won't *improve* the tone. It will change it to be a little smoother. You will lose some "purity" of your tone and some bottom end.

Are you kidding ? You will lose purity of tone !!!

It sounds like a propoganda campaign of 60/100 owners to reduce the value of Simul-Class amps. You will lose some bottom end when running EL-34's, but these amps have a naturally large bass response to begin with so it is actually a welcome reduction. When running 4 6L6's you do not have as drastic reduction in bottom end and the tone is fatter. Running the outer two tubes in Class A triode through it's own primary can do nothing but enhance the tone in it's own idiom. Simply running the outer pair in triode fattens the tone.

As far as an upgrade to Simul, it's a moot point unless you provide your own 562003 or SC-152019B output transformer. They are no longer made and Mesa is out of stock.

Here is the article by Randall Smith on Class A and Simul-Class. Simul is at the very end.

http://mesaboogie.com/US/Smith/ClassA.htm

 

[Stu Gutz]

It won't *improve* the tone. It will change it to be a little smoother. You will lose some "purity" of your tone and some bottom end.

Are you kidding ? You will lose purity of tone !!!

It sounds like a propoganda campaign of 60/100 owners to reduce the value of Simul-Class amps. You will lose some bottom end when running EL-34's, but these amps have a naturally large bass response to begin with so it is actually a welcome reduction. When running 4 6L6's you do not have as drastic reduction in bottom end and the tone is fatter. Running the outer two tubes in Class A triode through it's own primary can do nothing but enhance the tone in it's own idiom. Simply running the outer pair in triode fattens the tone.

As far as an upgrade to Simul, it's a moot point unless you provide your own 562003 or SC-152019B output transformer. They are no longer made and Mesa is out of stock.

Here is the article by Randall Smith on Class A and Simul-Class. Simul is at the very end.

http://mesaboogie.com/US/Smith/ClassA.htm

No I'm not kidding, just using my ears. The simul seems to "blur" the notes as compared to the non-simul. Come on man ... do you really think I would care what a simul amp is worth relative to a non-simul? I have no motives other than to answer someones question honestly.

Tone and sound is very subjective. With respect to a simul vs a non-simul there is no BETTER, just different ... and it's not a drastic difference at that. In the context of actually playing in a band I would bet 99% could not pick out the difference.

 

[Tuna141]

I agree with BBabies. Simul-class makes your sound bigger, fuller, and more 3 dimensional. I agree that Simil-class may be perceived as slighly rounder, but that's because it sounds so much fuller/bigger (if that makes any sense). You definitely don't loose any purity or bottom end when you use Simul-class. I think it actually improves the bottom end, if anything else.

I always run my Simul-class Boogies with all 6L6's. IMO, the tone is much fuller and offers more bottom end than running a mix of 6L6 and EL34.


I prefer Simul-class over non-Simul-class. However, if I were in your situation, I would not worry too much about not having it, and don't think it would be worth the hassle and expense to upgrade your amp to Simil-class. I'd just get the + upgrade.

 

[JOEY B.]

Simul-Class power sounds smoother, warmer and less punchy than our standard Hundred Watt power.

Straight from the Boogieman himself. The decription that Randall Smith gives hits the nail on the head. Another board member and friend of mine has a 60/100 C+. We did our own comparison with the same preamp settings, same guitar through the same speaker(s). The 60/100 is more bold and "in your face" sounding. Or 'punchy". Some people might prefer this, though.

 

[Stu Gutz]

Simul-Class power sounds smoother, warmer and less punchy than our standard Hundred Watt power.

Straight from the Boogieman himself. The decription that Randall Smith gives hits the nail on the head. Another board member and friend of mine has a 60/100 C+. We did our own comparison with the same preamp settings, same guitar through the same speaker(s). The 60/100 is more bold and "in your face" sounding. Some people might prefer this, though.

I would agree with this description too.

 

[Boogiebabies]

Simul-Class power sounds smoother, warmer and less punchy than our standard Hundred Watt power.

Straight from the Boogieman himself. The decription that Randall Smith gives hits the nail on the head. Another board member and friend of mine has a 60/100 C+. We did our own comparison with the same preamp settings, same guitar through the same speaker(s). The 60/100 is more bold and "in your face" sounding. Or 'punchy". Some people might prefer this, though.

Exactly.

But the 60/100 is a confessional amp so it keeps it's tone purity.

My Simul's don't mind a Baptist Church at all.
They have Holy Ghost Power so there pure.

 

[JOEY B.]

I plan on having a "revival service" tomorrow with my C+. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Boogiebabies]

It won't *improve* the tone. It will change it to be a little smoother. You will lose some "purity" of your tone and some bottom end.

Are you kidding ? You will lose purity of tone !!!

It sounds like a propoganda campaign of 60/100 owners to reduce the value of Simul-Class amps. You will lose some bottom end when running EL-34's, but these amps have a naturally large bass response to begin with so it is actually a welcome reduction. When running 4 6L6's you do not have as drastic reduction in bottom end and the tone is fatter. Running the outer two tubes in Class A triode through it's own primary can do nothing but enhance the tone in it's own idiom. Simply running the outer pair in triode fattens the tone.

As far as an upgrade to Simul, it's a moot point unless you provide your own 562003 or SC-152019B output transformer. They are no longer made and Mesa is out of stock.

Here is the article by Randall Smith on Class A and Simul-Class. Simul is at the very end.

http://mesaboogie.com/US/Smith/ClassA.htm

No I'm not kidding, just using my ears. The simul seems to "blur" the notes as compared to the non-simul. Come on man ... do you really think I would care what a simul amp is worth relative to a non-simul? I have no motives other than to answer someones question honestly.

Tone and sound is very subjective. With respect to a simul vs a non-simul there is no BETTER, just different ... and it's not a drastic difference at that. In the context of actually playing in a band I would bet 99% could not pick out the difference.

An opinion is not necessarily and honest answer. There is a difference between opinion and fact that often gets blurred. In essence, it's a biased opinion based on perception, rumor, innuendo and personal preference.
How does that help someone and what innate knowledge do you have on the subject?

 

[Stu Gutz]

An opinion is not necessarily and honest answer. There is a difference between opinion and fact that often gets blurred. In essence, it's a biased opinion based on perception, rumor, innuendo and personal preference.
How does that help someone and what innate knowledge do you have on the subject?

The "opinion" that often gets passed around here as "fact" is the superiorty of simulclass over non-simul. As someone above said .. some prefer non-simul
over simul ... as I do. You seem to not like a contrary "opinion" to yours.

 

[Boogiebabies]

An opinion is not necessarily and honest answer. There is a difference between opinion and fact that often gets blurred. In essence, it's a biased opinion based on perception, rumor, innuendo and personal preference.
How does that help someone and what innate knowledge do you have on the subject?

The "opinion" that often gets passed around here as "fact" is the superiorty of simulclass over non-simul. As someone above said .. some prefer non-simul
over simul ... as I do. You seem to not like a contrary "opinion" to yours.

Sorry, I stated a fact and I am not even being pissy.

Here are my references.

35 Years Old with 23 years of time on the job.

1984 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb-Imubya-EV
1984 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb-Combo-EV
1985 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb Hardwood Head
1990 MK III Green Stripe Long Chassis- Simul-EQ-Reverb
1992 Dual Rectifier - Chrome/Black
1993 MK IVB - Tolex Combo Mint - EV Matching 1X12 Thiele
2000 Mesa 4FB 4X12 with V-30's
2007 Road King II version 2
1987 Marshall 2555 Silver Jubilee Full Stack
1993 Soldano SLO 100 1/2 Stack - Burgundy Snakeskin

I apologize for wagging my Johnson, but I'm not in the mood for Harmony Central pissing match. Hopefully, your not Soulle with another user name. I have already been mocked by a 15 year old posing as an adult.

What's in your wallet ?

 

[visualrocker69]

1984 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb-Imubya-EV
1984 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb-Combo-EV
1985 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb Hardwood Head
1990 MK III Green Stripe Long Chassis- Simul-EQ-Reverb
1992 Dual Rectifier - Chrome/Black
1993 MK IVB - Tolex Combo Mint - EV Matching 1X12 Thiele
2000 Mesa 4FB 4X12 with V-30's
2007 Road King II version 2
1987 Marshall 2555 Silver Jubilee Full Stack
1993 Soldano SLO 100 1/2 Stack - Burgundy Snakeskin

Righto, I'll be organizing a looting party now...
Who's in? 8)

 

[Stu Gutz]

An opinion is not necessarily and honest answer. There is a difference between opinion and fact that often gets blurred. In essence, it's a biased opinion based on perception, rumor, innuendo and personal preference.
How does that help someone and what innate knowledge do you have on the subject?

The "opinion" that often gets passed around here as "fact" is the superiorty of simulclass over non-simul. As someone above said .. some prefer non-simul
over simul ... as I do. You seem to not like a contrary "opinion" to yours.

Sorry, I stated a fact and I am not even being pissy.

Here are my references.

35 Years Old with 23 years of time on the job.

1984 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb-Imubya-EV
1984 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb-Combo-EV
1985 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb Hardwood Head
1990 MK III Green Stripe Long Chassis- Simul-EQ-Reverb
1992 Dual Rectifier - Chrome/Black
1993 MK IVB - Tolex Combo Mint - EV Matching 1X12 Thiele
2000 Mesa 4FB 4X12 with V-30's
2007 Road King II version 2
1987 Marshall 2555 Silver Jubilee Full Stack
1993 Soldano SLO 100 1/2 Stack - Burgundy Snakeskin

I apologize for wagging my Johnson, but I'm not in the mood for Harmony Central pissing match. Hopefully, your not Soulle with another user name. I have already been mocked by a 15 year old posing as an adult.

What's in your wallet ?

Are you fucking nuts? Listing your gear? LOL!
I worked for 20 years as an Electronic Tech for Nortel. I am 49 years old by the way. I have played guitar since I was 8 years old. I have built or fixed amps, recording consoles and other pro audio gear.; mentored with a Platinum recording engineer; I even have made an acoustic guitar. I also make guitar pickups as a sideline and have sold to many pros like Doug Aldrich of Whitesnake, a couple of members of April Wine ... bla bla.
My real name is Mike Turk ... not that anyone needs to qualify their "opinions" with a resume ... holy moly!

 

[Boogiebabies]

1984 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb-Imubya-EV
1984 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb-Combo-EV
1985 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb Hardwood Head
1990 MK III Green Stripe Long Chassis- Simul-EQ-Reverb
1992 Dual Rectifier - Chrome/Black
1993 MK IVB - Tolex Combo Mint - EV Matching 1X12 Thiele
2000 Mesa 4FB 4X12 with V-30's
2007 Road King II version 2
1987 Marshall 2555 Silver Jubilee Full Stack
1993 Soldano SLO 100 1/2 Stack - Burgundy Snakeskin

Righto, I'll be organizing a looting party now...
Who's in? 8)

No Problem,

I have two vicious Dachsunds, two 9mm Beretta's and a wife.

 

[phyrexia]

Guys guys guys. Why are we shitting over each other over the word "purity"?

I work for a Mesa dealer, doesn't that make me more knowledgeable than any of you? :lol: :wink: Plus I have ONE Mesa/Boogie amp, and TWO guitars!

Hehe.

Now if the IICs are the most aggressive "tonefully" pure amps in the Boogie family, wouldn't smoothing out the tone detract from that aggressive tonality? Maybe that's what dudeman meant. I've never played a IIC+ so I can't say anything about the sound of hte amp.

And of course simul-class models will always be worth more, so why are we accusing anybody of something silly like trying to change the market value of an amp?

Victor

 

[Boogiebabies]

The "opinion" that often gets passed around here as "fact" is the superiorty of simulclass over non-simul. As someone above said .. some prefer non-simul
over simul ... as I do. You seem to not like a contrary "opinion" to yours.

Sorry, I stated a fact and I am not even being pissy.

Here are my references.

35 Years Old with 23 years of time on the job.

1984 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb-Imubya-EV
1984 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb-Combo-EV
1985 IIC+ Simul-EQ-Reverb Hardwood Head
1990 MK III Green Stripe Long Chassis- Simul-EQ-Reverb
1992 Dual Rectifier - Chrome/Black
1993 MK IVB - Tolex Combo Mint - EV Matching 1X12 Thiele
2000 Mesa 4FB 4X12 with V-30's
2007 Road King II version 2
1987 Marshall 2555 Silver Jubilee Full Stack
1993 Soldano SLO 100 1/2 Stack - Burgundy Snakeskin

I apologize for wagging my Johnson, but I'm not in the mood for Harmony Central pissing match. Hopefully, your not Soulle with another user name. I have already been mocked by a 15 year old posing as an adult.

What's in your wallet ?

Are you f%&# nuts? Listing your gear? LOL!
I worked for 20 years as an Electronic Tech for Nortel. I am 49 years old by the way. I have played guitar since I was 8 years old. I have built or fixed amps, recording consoles and other pro audio gear.; mentored with a Platinum recording engineer; I even have made an acoustic guitar. I also make guitar pickups as a sideline and have sold to many pros like Doug Aldrich of Whitesnake, a couple of members of April Wine ... bla bla.
My real name is Mike Turk ... not that anyone needs to qualify their "opinions" with a resume ... holy moly!

You now have the bigger Johnson. What do I know, I'm just a used car salesman from Newark, NJ. I agree with the bla...bla.... It's pandering.

You win !!! I will now bow to you as if you were the child of Rupert Neve and Diana Ross and had a blood transfusion from Eric Johnson.


Are your pickups better then Fralin's ?

 

[Boogiebabies]

Mike,

If you answer, it will be a while before my reply. I have to take my multi award winning Dachshunds out for a walk and catch the rest of the X-Files movie.

 

[Restless Rocks]

I work for a Mesa dealer, doesn't that make me more knowledgeable than any of you?
Victor[/quote]

I was already in stitches over these other two guys but that's hilarious. And by the way Dachshunds WILL bite! And with the smaller and lighter mini cougar they are pretty good shots too.