Shout to mavguy/...ebay......holy s##T!!

[darth beans]

Well i was gonna post sooner and with hopefully better news.First thanks to Mav. for his kind response to my post and advice....and everyone else on here....Your posts and topics have given me hours of reading pleasure and insight. Especially mavguy,shredd and timbrewolf.
So after doing some more home work I thought I was prepared to take the nos plunge. LOL LOL> Went on ebay...actually scored some decent sylvanias and rca's. Quite pleased! I will say that I did underestimate the rarity and value of some of these tubes. I know that tele's and mullards are hard to come buy but ....wow so are the rest of these items. Even an RFT or Ei.
So I just couldn't help but to pull the trigger on some tele's...I looked at many auctions(had 90 saved in my watching items) PICKED out some BS like "1200 is nominal new on my yadda ya tester" (this goes for most nos) REALLY ?? I looked at many pictures and graphs of said testers only to see that said many readings were in fact in the white question mark zone or even worse!! Why would anyone even post that?? And that is even if they are being honest. Some people are obviously just full of ****...selling beat tubes with no life left in them. I definitely underestimated the size of the racket going on on SHITBAY.... Whether you are looking for a mullarard a tele or even a new tube.

So I pulled the trigger on two telefunkens from a seller with 100 feedback etc. Asked some questions and so forth. CMON cant go wrong with a german tube in a german amp right??? haha Why not try it... I want some nos to enjoy along with everyone else...kinda bored of rolling new stuff. I was actually enjoying this stuff ....kinda reminded me of collecting baseball cards in a way...only much cooler! Gotta tung sol...long plate GE...

SO....said tele's came today. I guess it's easy to spot a fake on ebay when you actually hold one in your hand.I'd say just about every tele on there is fake....**** CLOSE!! Label is obviously baked on, no raised diamond on the bottom, tube is obviously BRAND NEW, Imprinted circle on the bottom etc etc.......here is some email exchanges...

"They are real telefunkens, early ones. In fact I listed them using the script from a previous tele auction & missed the fact that they might have been smooth plate which are more valuable. Very simple...send them back in the same condition & I will refund your $$.
Bob
20 years tube experience
my reply...Now I might be a noob but......Early telefunkens??? lol these tubes DO NOT date back that far. They are clearly not from the 50's or 60's. Even if they were they would have the diamond on the bottom.These clearly have a number with a circle around it. What we have here are some rebranded tubes possibly. I think that anyone with 20 years of tube experience would be able to spot a fake! I'll tell you I have done some digging and it is very obvious 85 percent of what people are pushing on ebay as the real deal is in fact fake and I think they know it. I'm not trying to be a prick....I haven't done a lot of business on ebay and it is not my intention to give anyone a hard time but ....

"In fact I listed them using the script from a previous tele auction & missed the fact that they might have been smooth plate which are more valuable." Doesn't sound like a pro to me. Sounds like someone trying to sell me something over the phone!!Now I'm supposed to believe you are going to return my money???"

I can't that these people have the balls to do this!! And you can't leave negative feedback for several days. Not to mention what about my money?? What about the fact that I want to punch this dick in the face!!!! AND I WAS CAREFUL!! BUYER BEWARE. MOST of this stuff is fake...

 

[212Mavguy]

I just took delivery of a Telefunken smooth plate labeled (or should I say very partially labeled Fisher ecc83, made in west germany printed on the bottle side, diamond between the pins, tested nearly balanced between sections on my Hickok, 67/68 where 50 is good for less than 24 bucks plus shipping. Don't expect every deal you get on ebay to be a great one, I also took delivery of a Sylvania short blackplate 12ax7 that was supposed to be balanced and strong, it tested 63/58 on the same tester, but again I only paid less than 20 bucks plus shipping for that one, and it is still quite usable. Some of the Telefunken 12ax7's were relabeled Siemens, those have a number in a circle between the pins, and Siemens are among the best sounding 12ax7's to my ears. A lot of guys love Mullard shortplate 12ax7's and to my ears the Siemens shortplate ecc83 and e83cc's out Mullard the Mullards, similar tones but richer in harmonics when you push them into the dirty zone.

Strongly disagree about nearly every tele on eBay being fake... and if you get your money back best to not post negative, don't post anything at all. Save your energy for something newer and better, kinda like what is the best way to get over a breakup with your girlfriend in a single word?..................................Next!

 

[darth beans]

Hey man...yea I got burned. Guy posted fake pics! That is what gets me. I know you have to have patience but I feel like a fool. Go to Ebay and type in "telefunken 12ax7" and watch what comes up. Out of 60 Items 52 are fake. It is obvious there is a ring of sellers who really have just popped up even within the last couple of days that are selling counterfeit tubes. My guy was at least smart enough to post a pic of a real tele. Not "oh here is two telefunkens still in the box in the rapper!" .
What I did was type "12ax7" or "12ax7a" into the search and looked at every page. Caught a seemingly legit auction towards the end and thought I got a deal. Did a search for telefunken and realized at least some were obviously fake. Then I started to worry. Now I feel stupid...I mean you should see how many people are on there selling "quads of matched mullards,tele's and valvo's" It's hilarious! Kinda bummed ....and now I have to wonder how much of these rebranded Mullards,tele's,and Valvo's are going around...and who else is going to take a pic of the real thing,answer some questions,and then send me a vintage tube....made in germany!!

So yea I'm definitely gonna be more patient. Just don't have a lot of money to burn. I'm digging the Sylvania's. Bought 4 in a lot got 2 really good ones.Nice warm fat tone there. Not as bassy but nice smooth distortion,Creamy mids,toppy but not Ice pick highs. I'm like Whoa ...I'm digging this.They are the longer black plate version. Awaiting a couple of more goodies..... Do you know of any reputable sellers off of ebay??? I also have been looking into flea markets and the like. Maybe even vintage audio shows....notta. Ebay is it for now.....

 

[stokes]

Hey Mav,did you get those Fishers from a guy here in NY? I got a pair from him a couple of months ago,seems he had a butt load of those Fishers.The pair I got are great,test as new and sound great.Sorry to hear about your deal,darth.I've been lucky with ebay,so far I havent had any bad deals.Worst I've had is a tube that wasnt up to par,or a matched pair that didnt match.Seller always made the appropriate adjustment.I even got a couple of pair of power tubes from 2 different deals,werent a close match,had half the money refunded both times and the seller didnt even want a tube returned,so I got some singles instead of pairs,no big deal.Flea markets/ham fests used to be a good source,but I think I cleaned out the whole north east,tubes are getting few and far between around here.I gotta start heading out of state. http://www.arrl.org/hamfests.html Try this link for ham fests in your area.

 

[212Mavguy]

Hi Stokes,

No the seller was not from NY on the Fisher/tele. Got lucky. Speaking of lucky, I redid the Frank-en-Champ again with a personally stuffed turret board. Waaaaay too much fun once I got it working right. I posted in the amps section.

Darth, those Syl long bp's are among my fave tubes. Timbre Wolf turned me on the rarer short bp Syl's. Dey gots tone.... Big butt Bertha sound...

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Darth - sorry to hear of the eBay mishap. It's happened to be before, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who hates feeling like a fool. Now get this one:

Early on in my eBay buying days (when I used to shun sniping as an unethical practice), I won an auction for four long-plate Mullard 12AX7. They arrived, and were obviously not Mullards at all . I felt so burned, even though the auction was only something like $60. I tested the tubes, and they were strong. The seller was a complete ***, who wouldn't own up to mis-representing his tubes, and wouldn't consider a refund. I looked for i.d. sources, and slowly came the the realization that I'd gotten smooth-plate Telefunkens instead :shock: . With great excitement, I tried them out - only to find out that I really don't like those tubes :roll: I've tried and tried them, in various positions, over the years, and couldn't find a lasting place for them (always like other tubes better). It has been an emotional roller-coaster. Good news: I never had to spend big bucks on T-funks . Bad news: I wish I had four more of the long-plate Mullards . I guess the moral of the story is, if you feel you've been ripped off, think about it as an educational experience. As far as schooling costs go, these lessons are relatively cheap.

In my tube posts, I often try to give enough detailed information for others to be able to use to properly i.d. tubes. Here's a tip on the genuine Telefunkens: the round getter wires are slightly smaller diameter circles than other 12AX7 manufacturers', and where the support "stem" attaches to the hoop there is a distinct divot in the getter material (Telefunken getter wire is fatter than others, being circular in cross-section, rather than flattened). If you ever see a real one, take a look, and you'll know what I mean.

eBay: Just Say Know. And, of course, Caveat Emptor.



Mav - I'm glad to hear you like the short black-plate Sylvania 12AX7. With its tonal thickness, early breakup, detailed clarity, and dark plates, I think of it as a tarantula's leg.

 

[212Mavguy]

........Reminds me of an auction for a pair of Realistic Lifetime 12ax7's the seller showed the boxes only in the pics, so I sniped and won both for like less than 20 bucks plus shipping. Got them, opened the boxes and inside were some very strong 12ax7 shortplate Amperex Bugle Boys! :lol: Keep the faith, Darth!

 

[darth beans]

I still have some questions.I'll save them for another thread..lol. Like I replied in the other thread....made in germany across the front of the tube in obvious brand new print. Most of these tubes say "made in west germany" as in ...Before the wall came down. If you are going to fake something at least know that much. I mean the two countries had seperate olympic teams right?? Why would they brand a tube made in west germany " made in germany".

It is definitely not a siemens or some other fine german made tube. That is the joke I'm referring to. Belive me I wanted to get a hold of some. And to boot I'm telling you ...most of what is on ebay as being passed off as valvo,tele,mullard,IE, and amperex is indeed fake. Not all....but definitely more than not.There are a number of people on there with accounts a year or less old who all of a sudden have access to these rare tubes???? And in great number!!! If you don't believe me I'll send you links to these auctions and you can judge for yourself.

So for now I'm gonna stick with the good old American stuff. I'll keep an eye out though.RFT's can be bought through the tubestore.com even though their shipping is high and I know they are great tubes and I'll prolly love'em.

I do have some more basic questions though. LIke ...when did they stop making the real tele's?? What tubes were actually still being produced in germany after the wall came down that designated that fact and were actually Made in germany?? If even they were still producing tubes at that point...???? Remember that while this stuff was being produced in somewhat westernized and industrialized West Gemany people were starving and standing in line for toilet paper in east germany.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Why would they brand a tube made in west germany " made in germany".

This may help you identify your tube, or at least help with future Telefunken purchases: http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/SieTel%20ECC83/ECC83.htm

Best of luck!

- Thom

 

[darth beans]

Thank you stokes for that link buy the way!!! very helpful....I was scouring for that and hopefully you didn't clear out the N.east. Yes one of my questions was ....did they make tubes in west germany and label them made in germany??? The fact that they did apparently makes things very confusing.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Thank you stokes for that link buy the way!!! very helpful....I was scouring for that and hopefully you didn't clear out the N.east. Yes one of my questions was ....did they make tubes in west germany and label them made in germany??? The fact that they did apparently makes things very confusing.

The Cold War period term "Germany," was used to designate West Germany. To those of us outside the Eastern Bloc, there was "Germany" and "East Germany." Sometimes "West" was used, sometimes not. It reflects the cultural bias of English speaking countries at the time.

Yes, it makes things very confusing. There are a lot of ways tube labeling, relabeling, and sometimes, outright counterfeiting, makes the vacuum tube world very confusing. There is a lot of incorrect "information" available on the Internet, too, making it even more confusing. The best thing you can do, as a buyer/consumer, is to learn identifying characteristics of the un-alterable parts of the tubes (plates, micas, getter wires, glass shape, etched codes). I don't put much stock in painted-on markings, myself: either they're incorrect and misleading, or they're correct and just add to the selling price of the tube.

- T

 

[stokes]

Thank you stokes for that link buy the way!!! very helpful....I was scouring for that and hopefully you didn't clear out the N.east. Yes one of my questions was ....did they make tubes in west germany and label them made in germany??? The fact that they did apparently makes things very confusing.

Darth,when I said North East I exagerated a bit.I've been hitting NY and NJ for years.As far north as Albany and south to Atlantic City,Long Island too.Used to be real easy finding bargains,most of the ham radio guys considered tubes obsolete and solid state was the thing.I got some very fine tubes from guys who didnt realize us guitar amp guys are living in the past and are willing to pay primo $$$ for tubes.I actually got a quad of RCA Black plates from a guy who bought them as back-ups in the '60's and never used them,wanted $30 since he thought that was what he paid,I had a $50 bill,told him to keep the change.I got a lot of stories like that,but not in the last year or two.Guess I gotta head out to Pa. before you do,ha!Just kidding,I'm going to try Mass.and N.England when I get time,good luck in your hunt.