Should Mesa Boogie reissue the Mark IIC+ ?

[VisaL]

I think an authentic Mark IIC+ reissue would cost closer to $10,000.

Interesting speculation. Mark2b price was 650usd+options. So fully loaded combo would’ve been 1150usd. Anvil case was 100usd. I have one of those upstairs and it serves as a livingroom table. That 1150 would be 3,5k in 2023. Which sounds really affordable. If they would reissue it, would it be like 3x more and would that price be based on manufacturing cost or demand? My quess would be a little lower like 5k.

I have no idea how tight leash they are on, but gibson would price it at 75000usd. To soften the blow you would get to hang out with mark agnesi (like that would be a bonus) and receive complimentary leather jacket.

 

[funk49]

I had a mark 2c+ like an idiot I sold it , I bought it brand new , it was a great amp but I now own a MK 3 blue stripe and it sounds every bit as good as my MK 2C+ without the 6L6s burning the circuit board , the Mk 3 was a huge improvement when Mesa mounted the 6L6s on porcelain sockets mounted on the chassis

My buddy has a red stripe and being roommates for years, we were able to really A/B it with my DRG it to see how close it got and in our opinion, it was about 90% there. If I didn't have one and was in the market for one, I'd save my money and get a MKIII red stripe.

A couple times, we hooked them together in stereo with two Boogie cabs for the wet and a Carvin in the middle for dry and it was the one of the best, most epic tones I've ever heard in my life.

 

[pmac11]

Interesting speculation. Mark2b price was 650usd+options. So fully loaded combo would’ve been 1150usd. Anvil case was 100usd. I have one of those upstairs and it serves as a livingroom table. That 1150 would be 3,5k in 2023. Which sounds really affordable. If they would reissue it, would it be like 3x more and would that price be based on manufacturing cost or demand? My quess would be a little lower like 5k.

I have no idea how tight leash they are on, but gibson would price it at 75000usd. To soften the blow you would get to hang out with mark agnesi (like that would be a bonus) and receive complimentary leather jacket.

Gibson would have the leather jacket made in China

 

[jsullivan2112]

Interesting speculation. Mark2b price was 650usd+options. So fully loaded combo would’ve been 1150usd. Anvil case was 100usd. I have one of those upstairs and it serves as a livingroom table. That 1150 would be 3,5k in 2023. Which sounds really affordable. If they would reissue it, would it be like 3x more and would that price be based on manufacturing cost or demand? My quess would be a little lower like 5k.

I have no idea how tight leash they are on, but gibson would price it at 75000usd. To soften the blow you would get to hang out with mark agnesi (like that would be a bonus) and receive complimentary leather jacket.

Inflation definitely factors in, but really they (or possibly Gibson, maybe) can slap whatever price they want on it and there are people that would pay it.
If they no longer have the schematic they'll have to painstakingly reverse engineer a few examples. That takes time and money away from other things they're doing.

Then there's the fact that parts are always way cheaper to source when you buy them in bulk. How many parts will they have to source/make for a IIC+ that they won't have just lying around in their warehouse anymore, since they gave it a good spring cleaning last year? The knobs, the push-pull pots, the front panel, graphic EQ modules, transformers, everything, they've said that they ran out of those years ago. If they're only doing a limited run of the amp, they won't save on those parts in bulk. They won't buy any more than they need because they no longer use them on any of their other amps either.

$10,000 later....

Edit: I missed the Agnesi comment. Effing hilarious!

 

[pmac11]

Inflation definitely factors in, but really they (or possibly Gibson, maybe) can slap whatever price they want on it and there are people that would pay it.
If they no longer have the schematic they'll have to painstakingly reverse engineer a few examples. That takes time and money away from other things they're doing.
Then there's the fact that parts are always way cheaper to source when you buy them in bulk. How many parts will they have to source/make for a IIC+ that they won't have just lying around in their warehouse anymore, since they gave it a good spring cleaning last year? The knobs, the push-pull pots, transformers, everything, they've said that they ran out of those years ago. If they're only doing a limited run of the amp, they won't save on those parts in bulk. They won't buy any more than they need because they no longer use them on any of their other amps either.

$10,000 later....

Edit: I missed the Agnesi comment. Effing hilarious!

Maybe they could enter a licensing agreement with MojoTone and let them sell it as a kit. Then Mojo could source the parts, Gibson could simply collect rent. ;-)

 

[little-b]

My buddy has a red stripe and being roommates for years, we were able to really A/B it with my DRG it to see how close it got and in our opinion, it was about 90% there. If I didn't have one and was in the market for one, I'd save my money and get a MKIII red stripe.

A couple times, we hooked them together in stereo with two Boogie cabs for the wet and a Carvin in the middle for dry and it was the one of the best, most epic tones I've ever heard in my life.

I have a iic+ & red stripe coliseum. I will say that the coli has a roar and authority that even my iic+ doesn't have. But... the iic+ has this " blanket off the amp " sound/tone and feel that is 2nd to none.

 

[darkvoice]

They absolutely should, not for $10K though.

 

[Darkstar2]

I saw a rumor on Sevenstring.org from someone in the 'know' that Mesa/Gibson was working on a MarkIIC+ reissue, and that it would be big money...this was about 8 months ago.

 

[GJgo]

Even if they do make a(nother) reissue- unless they start making amps with Germanium LDRs again (which is banned in Europe), it's not going to matter. It'll sound more like the other three times they tried to recreate the C+ circuit than it will the original.

 

[user 41014]

Even if they do make a(nother) reissue- unless they start making amps with Germanium LDRs again (which is banned in Europe), it's not going to matter. It'll sound more like the other three times they tried to recreate the C+ circuit than it will the original.

And for at least 2 days you will own the next one too!!!

I admit I will get sucked in to owning one.

I am really hoping it brings a big buyer into iron, 450S CTS pots, etc. to cause more output that hopefully makes it to the retail. Whether you like the 100 or 105 better it is nostalgia they will be selling and that hopefully portends 105 production. I wont cry if its a 100 but who manufactures it? I doubt they can coax Schumacher back in for a novelty run of a re-isssue meant to cash in.

Since it will already be insane I will go for the kui blue quilted blue maple and take 2.

 

[GJgo]

The V, JP & VII have big iron, and it doesn't matter. That's because it doesn't matter! The best pure tone from any II or III is with the 60 and it has small iron with PV in the high 400s. Go figure.

Hey now, I owned the VII for 6 days... Of all the "reissue" tones they've done in the V, JP & VII I think the one that's the most raw is the IIB tone on the VII. Not that it matches any IIB I've had, but it's the most raw.

 

[bandit2013]

Mark VII IIB sounds a bit on the thin side, Can you dail in a bit more bass or does it get muddy too soon? That IIB sounds killer.

 

[soloistthree]

The IIB mode can get really big, as far as bass, without really getting muddy, it's a very useful mode. Bandit, don't you have a VII though?

 

[bandit2013]

Yes, I have the Mark VII, but do not have the IIB to compare it too. This was the first video I have seen that compares the real deal to a mode of the swiss army knife. My experience with the IIB seemed more like a cleaner version of the IIC+ mode and easy to get muddy with bass added. Never really explored that mode for its potential.

That 1981 IIB amp sounded great. It sounded more open or airy in its grind vs the Mark VII had more of a sterile character like something was missing. Both sounded good but I felt the IIB sounded much better in the recording. Were you using the same cabinet?

 

[user 41014]

The V, JP & VII have big iron, and it doesn't matter. That's because it doesn't matter! The best pure tone from any II or III is with the 60 and it has small iron with PV in the high 400s. Go figure.

Hey now, I owned the VII for 6 days... Of all the "reissue" tones they've done in the V, JP & VII I think the one that's the most raw is the IIB tone on the VII. Not that it matches any IIB I've had, but it's the most raw.

The mode IIB sounds like a wraith of the original on the clip. The B is so fat it darkens it up but that could be eq'd on the mic. I like the dark but would dial the bass back a little myself.

So I say iron does matter and you can't compare any Mark II circuit wise with anything past the IV and for me it goes back to the day we played all those amps in your garage. I know you had the JP and can't remember if you had a V there. I think I unconsciously that day decided I didn't care about any Mark past the IVA with the ampeg looking grill I had up there.

The obvious was how the compression/clipping progressed from the B coli, B 60W loop mod, III's (blue coli and green) to the JP. I've long had the theory that the more components you cram in a box the more you are trading off.

The 1st part of that is capacitors. All filters use capacitors and there is a frequency roll off. I may be just smoking too much (ha, as if there is such a thing) but when you look at a 60's Fender or Marshall you don't see a bazillion caps crammed in there, a result of multi-channels bells and whistles.

The re-issues by Randall Gibson will have a leg up on all those swiss army Marks by being stripped down for skinny dipping in the tone pond. I love the swiss army TA and Express but it doesn't work for me trying to recreate the Mark II or III. The swiss armies I like aren't trying to be something they aren't.

I am not going to disagree with you about the S being a great and way overlooked tone machine. The S IIB loop mod was my 1st Mark and my IIC non-plus S is amazing thru a 412 of redbacks. Flux is my 2nd theory of why keeping it simple is key. There is a right hand rule and any conductor with current creates flux as per that rule. The more wires and components the more flux and all the flux interacts making a flux soup and is why layout matters.

Flux is also my guess why for tone the non-EQ Mark II's are more consistantly better than the more sought after EQ variants. Until the Mark III the EQ circuit is spilt up with the 2 boards, each side of the preamp with the wires twisted in with other wires as the signal traverses between the pre and power boards.

Now if big iron doesn't matter and you are regularly playing thru schumacher 180321 and 180322 you could save your back moving smaller and just plug into the board. Lmk when you are ready to sell!

 

[GJgo]

Yes, I have the Mark VII, but do not have the IIB to compare it too. This was the first video I have seen that compares the real deal to a mode of the swiss army knife. My experience with the IIB seemed more like a cleaner version of the IIC+ mode and easy to get muddy with bass added. Never really explored that mode for its potential.

That 1981 IIB amp sounded great. It sounded more open or airy in its grind vs the Mark VII had more of a sterile character like something was missing. Both sounded good but I felt the IIB sounded much better in the recording. Were you using the same cabinet?

On my channel I did a whole series comparing the VII modes to the originals, have a look. Yes, all the same cab in an iso box / reamp setup. Only change is the head.

Everything they've done after the IV is very sterile compared to the OGs. If you're used to & happy with the modern stuff, be happy & never try a vintage one.

 

[GJgo]

The re-issues by Randall Gibson will have a leg up on all those swiss army Marks by being stripped down for skinny dipping in the tone pond. I love the swiss army TA and Express but it doesn't work for me trying to recreate the Mark II or III. The swiss armies I like aren't trying to be something they aren't.

The single channel thing is likely why the only modern one I truly love is the Cali Tweed. That is a sweet amp.

 

[soloistthree]

The single channel thing is likely why the only modern one I truly love is the Cali Tweed. That is a sweet amp.

I feel like the JP2C is the reissue we're going to get. I mean, maybe not, I could be wrong, Gibson being who they are, cashing in on their legacy at every chance they get, I could see them doing an official reissue, w/o JPs name attrached, but I feel like that would kill sales of the JP2C. Either way, I have my Mark 3, JP2C, and Mark 7, which all sound fantastic, and honestly, I feel like the Mark VII improves on my OG Mark 3, it's that good, I don't find it sterile or lacking.

 

[bandit2013]

I only commented on the Mark VII IIB sounding sterile compared to the Mark IIB. It was missing a touch of bass to sound closer to the original.

Yeah, some of the older amps sound great, wish I never sold my Mark III combo. The Mark IVB got on my nerves a bit but the lead channel was great. RHY2 was just bad in my opinion but the amp was a combo as well and was not in favor of the MC90 speaker.

Mark V90, that amp was sterile with CH2 and CH3.

JP2C with the proper power tubes, not sterile with the STR415 or the STR448 tubes.

 

[GJgo]

The JP is honestly a great amp as long as you don't A/B it with an OG C+. And, honestly, it's more useful in the live band- my favorite of the modern Marks. Also, if you get the channel volumes up over 1:00 the amp really does open up nicely and get closer to the feels of the OGs, but it's bloody loud to do so. IMO if the JP had a master volume it would have been a much better amp for that reason. Oh, and, IMO the JP is more a C++ than a C+.

R2 in the IV is a total write off for aggressive music. With single coils in an open back cab you can make it work, but with humbuckers it's IMO terrible. That said, the lead channel on the IV does things that no other Mark does, and possibly sits better in the live mix than any other Mark. It actually plays well with a Marshall in a 2 guitar band- something most Mesas I've tried struggle with.

At first I was quite happy with the VII and I still think for a bedroom / studio guy, it's a big improvement over the V. When I played it in the live band though the VII really fell apart for my needs. It has a mushy attack that muds out in the high gain live mix & all the push of a modeler when compared to other Marks. Here's another comparo I did where having been in the room, I can really hear the soft attack. To be clear I do think the amp is great for certain things, and its important to have the right tool for the job. The different generations of Marks really do different things.