Should Mesa Boogie reissue the Mark IIC+ ?

[erickompositör72]

If it was so lucrative to make a Mark IIc+ reissue, then someone would be doing it already. Spoiler: it's not lucrative. We have our little IIC+ club here, but we don't have nearly the numbers or sway that many seem to think.

More likely is that some niche amp maker or individual will decide to delve into this, perhaps as a pet project or passion project. Oh, and no matter who does it: it's going to sound different than the originals

 

[woodbutcher65]

What makes you think that a reissue would necessarily sound different than the originals? Have the laws of physics changed in the last 40 years? Have the component manufacturers forgotten how to make capacitors and resistors the same way they were made back then?

No, there's no reason to make that assertion. You lack any hard evidence to support it. in fact, the same resistor and capacitor types that were being used by Mesa 40 years ago are still being made and used today. That even applies to MOST of the capacitor types used in the power supply. (20 and 30 uF Sprague Atoms have been in continuous production all along. I recapped my Mark IIB with some of those just weeks ago.)

 

[pmac11]

What makes you think that a reissue would necessarily sound different than the originals? Have the laws of physics changed in the last 40 years? Have the component manufacturers forgotten how to make capacitors and resistors the same way they were made back then?

No, there's no reason to make that assertion. You lack any hard evidence to support it. in fact, the same resistor and capacitor types that were being used by Mesa 40 years ago are still being made and used today. That even applies to MOST of the capacitor types used in the power supply. (20 and 30 uF Sprague Atoms have been in continuous production all along. I recapped my Mark IIB with some of those just weeks ago.)

It will sound different, mostly because our hearing is not what it was 40 years ago.

 

[woodbutcher65]

I've always been super protective of my hearing and it hasn't changed much. Surprisingly my hearing test results have barely changed. I can still hear up to 17 KHz. But I'll put on ear protection when running anything louder than a cordless screw gun.

 

[Jay Omega]

If it was so lucrative to make a Mark IIc+ reissue, then someone would be doing it already. Spoiler: it's not lucrative. We have our little IIC+ club here, but we don't have nearly the numbers or sway that many seem to think.

More likely is that some niche amp maker or individual will decide to delve into this, perhaps as a pet project or passion project. Oh, and no matter who does it: it's going to sound different than the originals

I’m working on a recreation of an HRG as an offshoot from a project to convert my IIB to a C+. Biggest unknown in my eyes is the output transformer, I have several to compare. We shall see how it goes!

 

[erickompositör72]

What makes you think that a reissue would necessarily sound different than the originals? Have the laws of physics changed in the last 40 years? Have the component manufacturers forgotten how to make capacitors and resistors the same way they were made back then?

No, there's no reason to make that assertion. You lack any hard evidence to support it. in fact, the same resistor and capacitor types that were being used by Mesa 40 years ago are still being made and used today. That even applies to MOST of the capacitor types used in the power supply. (20 and 30 uF Sprague Atoms have been in continuous production all along. I recapped my Mark IIB with some of those just weeks ago.)

All evidence (history of reissues) seems to confirm they sound different. Unless you have numerous examples I'm missing.

 

[erickompositör72]

I’m working on a recreation of an HRG as an offshoot from a project to convert my IIB to a C+. Biggest unknown in my eyes is the output transformer, I have several to compare. We shall see how it goes!

I was just reading that thread the other day. I'm dying to hear it! Serious respect, brother!

 

[Nandrewjackson]

Will buyers need to pick through several reissues to find the one's that have "the sound"? Petrucci and the folks at mesa all say that some of the amps had "the sound" and some didn't. References: The mark V user manual says that, petrucci YouTube video from before the jp2c was released says that.

 

[Ulf2]

To be honest, I doubt a reissue makes a lot of sense.
From a technical point of view I am sure, some components would have to be used that would be different from the originals. In addition, there are laws in place that might dictate a slightly different design in order to meet these regulations.
Next up you would need to decide on the power amp section which surely makes a difference (SC or Class A/B).
The result would be a product that will most likely sound "different". And I bet that this re-issue will not meet the expectations of those who really want the original. It never happened, did it?
And finally we have the feature set of the Mark IIC+ where people would often struggle when channel switching.
So Mesa Boogie would end up with a 1,5 channel amp for 5k US$ that targets a niche customer group which will most likely prefer an original in general.
Personally, I would certainly prefer the feature set of the JP-2C. If you want the original, get it.

 

[Appleridge]

Will buyers need to pick through several reissues to find the one's that have "the sound"? Petrucci and the folks at mesa all say that some of the amps had "the sound" and some didn't. References: The mark V user manual says that, petrucci YouTube video from before the jp2c was released says that.

Great point! I remember watching that video. I think the older amps had a very organic quality to them due to the artistry of the builder and the components that went into them. With so many human beings involved in the process, (wether it be assembly of product or assembly of parts to go into product) there are bound to be variables. These variables create the lore of finding the secret date range or serial numbers when mike B used this or that, and it was shipped via fed ex that year instead of ups, and it was exceptionally dry in Illinois so the caps used were different….These yarns get spun over decades and viola: we have a legend. Is it really better? Who knows, but people thrive on a good story. I’m sure someone pitched that in a meeting regarding the Schumacher transformers in the JP2C.

A reissue could sound the exact same to a computer, but it won’t have that fun story. Petrucci tried to convince us that he found “the one” and it now lives in the mark v. That’s the real question. Does it? If so, then I say they still have the ability to faithfully recreate the literal blood sweat and tears that No doubt is part of the circuitry of all the classics we love. Hell, I even love looking at the MB initials written by sharpie. It tells me someone very unique had a hand in this product. A literal hand. The hands that held those sharpies are not writing on new amps anymore. I do think this matters…

 

[pmac11]

Will buyers need to pick through several reissues to find the one's that have "the sound"? Petrucci and the folks at mesa all say that some of the amps had "the sound" and some didn't. References: The mark V user manual says that, petrucci YouTube video from before the jp2c was released says that.

So now not even an original IIC+ sounds like an original IIC+, only some of them do? Only a chosen few with magic pixie dust sprinkled across the circuitry? Great. Makes good marketing material I suppose.

 

[Wyzard]

The hands that held those sharpies are not writing on new amps anymore. I do think this matters…

I enjoy the variety of the "+" signs: I think I like the "upside-down" ones best.....

They sound pretty good too!


As a further aside, and speaking as a non-high-gain user, IME the MkV doesn't do it.

 

[xdg999]

Mesa should open the Bendinelli Lab just like Gibson has the Murphy Lab for reissues. A Custom Shop where you could order any amp from Mesa the way you want, like I did in 1984.

 

[Joey1970]

The original C+ will always be a "flash in the pan" when it comes to Vintage Boogie amps. It could be re-created, I believe. But I don't think they will ever do it. Too much compromise for the modern player, and amp sales. That is why I'm old school, and buy used.

 

[funk49]

Mesa should open the Bendinelli Lab just like Gibson has the Murphy Lab for reissues. A Custom Shop where you could order any amp from Mesa the way you want, like I did in 1984.

I really like that idea. Back in 2006, I bought a Metroamp 12-series Plexi kit and Mike Bendinelli built it for me. It's essentially a Friedman built by MB. I think I have the only true hand-wired, point to point Plexi clone to ever come out of Petaluma.

 

[xdg999]

I don't need any more c+'s but if I could order one the way I wanted, and it looked old school, I would definitely buy one. The same reason people buy a Gibson Reissue 59 Les Paul. As close to an original as possible

 

[Nick Athanasatos]

$4,200.
Much less going on inside than a Mark VII even with special tranny's. Given inflation over the period of time the VII settles in, $5k. Though if they added "limited edition" to the name and had MB initial a numbered certificate they would squeeze an extra 1K out of everyone. That wouldn't crash the price of the original.

I'm not saying it should or shouldn't happen but Fender has made a business around re-issues for which the options change. If I was Gibson, errrr Mesa, each re-issue version would be different from the previous so stupid people like me want to own them all instead of one ring to rule them all.

Not all those that wander are lost. And a reissue in someone's lifetime will happen as sure as the world is round and wobbly regardless of what I think.

A loaded Hardwood Combo with accurate reproduction parts it would be priced at $7500

 

[user 41014]

For the prices we are throwing out here its worth examining the IIC+ steepflation and the original root cause was one band tickled the innerds of a group of guitarists who before or after realized the finger singing of lead notes.

Then it grew. Lets be serious here, Prince didn't create the exponential rise. That was the hoarding before, after, and during the pandemic- some clearly investor related. I'm no one to talk about stabling marks and there's plenty of people on here with my disease.

Are we talking lightning in a bottle? Hardly.

The people here that talk about shimmering cleans love the original Randall creation. The plus is the lead "instrument". The B in the middle (tho not yet played thru a II) is my loose low and heavy in your face main love.

Vilya, Nenya and Narya given to the elf lords to play their harps through. I think Narya toured with Nick Cave. The "Mark II" reissue/recreation.

The one to rule them all imnho would be 3 circuit boards even if SMT (screw the romance but either way), a switchable power ouput section since nothing touches the IIB for wall of sound and I'm good with adding a Baron-type analog meter, digital bias adjustment and midi. Do we really need relays and opto-couplers? And personally, get the EQ out of the chassis where it can be a usable 10-20 band and not cause all the in-house inductive flux.

But i would like a sugar or striped maple head all soaked in deep blue if we're at $7500.

 

[jsullivan2112]

I think an authentic Mark IIC+ reissue would cost closer to $10,000.

 

[murray sanders]

I had a mark 2c+ like an idiot I sold it , I bought it brand new , it was a great amp but I now own a MK 3 blue stripe and it sounds every bit as good as my MK 2C+ without the 6L6s burning the circuit board , the Mk 3 was a huge improvement when Mesa mounted the 6L6s on porcelain sockets mounted on the chassis