Should Mesa Boogie reissue the Mark IIC+ ?

[spawnofthesith]

I'd prefer a Mark III Reissue

 

[funk49]

some sa

the rumor is that build process cannot replicated anymore due to new regulations.

Now that you mention it, that sounds very familiar to what I heard (but my memory sucks, so YMMV). That being said, it seems like you could get anything you wanted built in China to specs for the right price. Look at the tubes, some of the best tubes were coming out of Soviet satellite countries before the fall of the Soviet Union.

 

[VisaL]

I have really hard time believing a tranny could not be reproduced. It is really simple device and it obeys laws of physics. There is wealth of material know-how and analysis equipment readily available. Moreover using simulations you could most likely avoid few iteration steps if one particular material would not be avalaible. There is always something similar enough.

Also, if there originally was patented IP involved, those patents have expired many moons ago.

I think business-wise it does not make sense and that is the reason. It’s better to let it have this mystical holy-grail status and use that as marketing tool.

 

[mark1406]

some sa

the rumor is that build process cannot replicated anymore due to new regulations.

I don’t buy that at all. There are thousands of valves being made everyday yet these amps have discerning transformers. I have a set of Mark 2 transformers in my SOB and I don’t think they are anything special. I’m sure Heyboer could make great sounding transformers for them.

Mercury Magnetics make great transformers too. I don’t see transformers being the real issue.

Regards

Mark

 

[woodbutcher65]

I also don't buy into that "we can't get the transformers" line. So they may have to use a specific varnish and the original varnish is not available anymore because it has some banned chemical in it or something. So what? There are alternatives.

It's not like you can't get transformers built to spec almost anywhere. Potted and varnished ones if you want.

The laminations, cores, and windings are easy. The end bells are easy. There are NO show stoppers.

I had custom wound transformers made for me by Chris Merren (Merren Audio) for a resto-mod of a '69 Marshall Plexi. A ONE MAN operation.

Give the specs to Schumacher or Heyboer or Mercury Magnetics and you'll have transformers arriving at shipping & receiving in a few weeks,
and they'll be right.

 

[skelt101]

If Marshall can reissue their JTM 45, Plexi, JCM 800, and Silver Jubilee, it only seems logical that Mesa/Boogie can make the IIC+. Update it with a detachable IEC power cable, tube cage, and whatever safety regulations are necessary, and get it on the shelves. They will fly out the door, guaranteed! (As long as they don’t come with a stupid-high price.)

 

[meesa_jarjar]

some sa

the rumor is that build process cannot replicated anymore due to new regulations.

If that's their official stance I call BS. Wire wrapped around iron, that's all you need. Even if they can't use some specific material, they can create something adequate using modern techniques, even if it's not 100% identical down to the molecule.

 

[pmac11]

If Marshall can reissue their JTM 45, Plexi, JCM 800, and Silver Jubilee, it only seems logical that Mesa/Boogie can make the IIC+. Update it with a detachable IEC power cable, tube cage, and whatever safety regulations are necessary, and get it on the shelves. They will fly out the door, guaranteed! (As long as they don’t come with a stupid-high price.)

This is my thought as well. Marshall and Fender do a brisk business selling reissues. Vox just keeps pumping out AC15s and AC30s. My issue with the Mark V, and now the Mark VII, is that it only gives a slice of the IIC+. Given its holy grail status, I'd wager the a reissue would do well.

Hey, maybe they just lost the schematic. ;-)

 

[woodbutcher65]

That's the problem. We know that the schematic Mesa offers isn't the actual IIC+ schematic. Maybe THEY don't have an accurate schematic to go by?

 

[FedWar]

You are all missing the point.
Mesa doesnt want to go back to two channel with push and pulls. To them It is not user friendly.
And I bet that even if they do it will sound 99,99 close but not 100.
IIC+ soundwise they tried at each iteration to get as close as possible to the iic+. Jp2c and mark VII will get you as close as possible as feel and organic sound.
While jpc might be a little more compressed, the mark vii should be much better in this regard.
Finally Marshall and others did their reissue. Do they sound like the original?
Hell no. 1987 silver jubilee or 1980 2203 will sound much better than their reissue, and everyone knows it, that is why the original still sell for way more bucks.

 

[mark1406]

You are all missing the point.
Mesa doesnt want to go back to two channel with push and pulls. To them It is not user friendly.
And I bet that even if they do it will sound 99,99 close but not 100.
IIC+ soundwise they tried at each iteration to get as close as possible to the iic+. Jp2c and mark VII will get you as close as possible as feel and organic sound.
While jpc might be a little more compressed, the mark vii should be much better in this regard.
Finally Marshall and others did their reissue. Do they sound like the original?
Hell no. 1987 silver jubilee or 1980 2203 will sound much better than their reissue, and everyone knows it, that is why the original still sell for way more bucks.

They have reissued the Mark 1 amp at least two times. The Mark 1 reissue as well as the Santana amp. They are basically a one channel amp.

Regards

Mark

 

[VisaL]

You are all missing the point.
Mesa doesnt want to go back to two channel with push and pulls. To them It is not user friendly.
And I bet that even if they do it will sound 99,99 close but not 100.
IIC+ soundwise they tried at each iteration to get as close as possible to the iic+. Jp2c and mark VII will get you as close as possible as feel and organic sound.
While jpc might be a little more compressed, the mark vii should be much better in this regard.
Finally Marshall and others did their reissue. Do they sound like the original?
Hell no. 1987 silver jubilee or 1980 2203 will sound much better than their reissue, and everyone knows it, that is why the original still sell for way more bucks.

..and each iteration is more desirable. Hype sells, why remove the holy grail status from iic+ by reissuing.

It may be that proper reissue would have lower profit margin compared to mk5-7 due to more labour intensive construction combined with limited volume they are able to put out.

 

[user 41014]

Hell no. 1987 silver jubilee or 1980 2203 will sound much better than their reissue, and everyone knows it, that is why the original still sell for way more bucks.

Reality is that even if the re-issues were better the originals would still sell for way more. I never cared for the word vintage but a guitar from the 70's has moved away from players into collector status. You can buy a new Squier that will be much more reliable out of the box for 1/10th the price.

Re-issues exist because the demand is there and that is the heart of the Q. I'm not going to fault Mesa for not re-issuing the most sought after Boogie in a half century but no one can argue the money they leave on the table. The only biz argument is if by volume they make much more money selling a slice of the pie in the VII rather than selling the whole pie while moving the product line forward so a bunch of pent up forum blasters don't blame them from becoming stagnant. But 2 years before or after the VII launch and that view sinks like an anchor.

 

[Nikevist1]

Yes of course but it's not that simple when thinking original components etc. Though it surely would get close to that sound but not 100% territory imo but this is all speculations. You simply can't find those original parts anymore which made that IIC+ sound in the 80´s
It's time to move on I guess..

Same goes other legends like 90´s PRE-500 Dual Rectifiers. You just simply can't duplicate those today.. I could be wrong though, I wish I were It would be great to get IIC+ and PRE-500 reissue which sounds 100% legit, raw and original with that vintage depth..

 

[Nikevist1]

You know what I mean when thinking raw vintage sound without that "digital" modern sound

 

[woodbutcher65]

The notion that the sound is in unique special components that aren't made anymore is bogus. Or another word with the letters B and S in it.

Caps? Orange drops. Still made today by CDE. Resistors? Same Vishay resistors made in '78 are still made today.

Anybody who wants a Mark II or III reissue doesn't have a problem with the control and pull switch layout.

Build what the customers want built. They know what they want.

Some people LIKE their cars to have manual transmissions and no computer.

 

[Nikevist1]

The notion that the sound is in unique special components that aren't made anymore is bogus. Or another word with the letters B and S in it.

Caps? Orange drops. Still made today by CDE. Resistors? Same Vishay resistors made in '78 are still made today.

Anybody who wants a Mark II or III reissue doesn't have a problem with the control and pull switch layout.

Build what the customers want built. They know what they want.

Some people LIKE their cars to have manual transmissions and no computer.

Absolutely wrong! What about transformers? Little different league than some caps, resistors etc. You clearly don't know what you are talking about..

 

[Nikevist1]

The notion that the sound is in unique special components that aren't made anymore is bogus. Or another word with the letters B and S in it.

Caps? Orange drops. Still made today by CDE. Resistors? Same Vishay resistors made in '78 are still made today.

Anybody who wants a Mark II or III reissue doesn't have a problem with the control and pull switch layout.

Build what the customers want built. They know what they want.

Some people LIKE their cars to have manual transmissions and no computer.

Do you own IIC+ or pre-500? Have you compared them between example Mark V IIC+ or Dual Rectifier? If you have and you have an ear, I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about.

 

[pmac11]

Do you own IIC+ or pre-500? Have you compared them between example Mark V IIC+ or Dual Rectifier? If you have and you have an ear, I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about.

On the other hand, you could put two IIC+ in a room together, and with a few decades of component drift in the resistors and caps, even they wouldn't sound the same at this point. So any comparison between a IIC+ and the Mark V version of it rather begs the question of which IIC+ you're using. As for transformers, they can be built to spec.

 

[Nikevist1]

I'm done here. People say whatever but they don't have experience. Some have but I can clearly say you don't. I have experience, I can tell you that!
So in this case I'm out. All Mesa's amps sounds great. Buy what you find the best on your purpose.
Peace and out!