Roadster - Need more compression - Help

[Bruno Petrucci]

Ok... but what if it was only the Rectifier? Doesn't the TS-9 make a big difference? In terms of compression?

This board has a LOT of very knowledgeable members and maybe one of them will tell me I'm talking sh!t and ask me to shut up or maybe they'll give me a pass... :lol:

Modern high gain tube amps have several gain stages (also called cascading gain) in their preamp's. And tubes are being used in those preamps. Tubes impart a natural compression by their nature. The preamp's voicing along with the tubes natural compression is what makes an amp's tone.

Now, you're asking for the tone and fluidity of a MK IV's LEAD channel in a amp that's voiced differently. That simply cannot happen unless you replace the roadster's preamp with the mk iv's.

I still think you can get close to what you want with a compression pedal in front of the amp. Have you tried that already? Sorry if I missed it. You said you tried the compressor effect in the loop. That is not the same as the front of the amp.

Or you could try a compressor pedal with tubes in it. I have a tube compressor pedal and its the quietest most natural sounding compressor pedal I've tried. I've had about 4 different compressor pedals and sold all but this one. Its called ART Levelar compressor and is not made anymore. T Rex makes some tube compressor pedals IIRC.

I understand, I bought a Roadster and not a MArk V. I jus want to get close to that. But, for example, I know that Petrucci uses overdrives in the front of the amps and I bet he did it for the "train of Thought" album. At least for the solos.
Now, I'll try the compressor in front as soon as I can.

Thanks man

EDIT: Sorry, maybe I didn't expressed myself correctly. I don't want to get the Mark tone. I just want a nice and compressed tone for leads. It's that, not that I want the Roadster to sound like the Mark.

 

[b0nkersx]

Train of Thought was recorded using a Road King. You should be able to replicate those tones with a Roadster.

http://www.kandashokai.co.jp/sale/jpc04_web/images/TKY02.jpg

 

[Bruno Petrucci]

Train of Thought was recorded using a Road King. You should be able to replicate those tones with a Roadster.

http://www.kandashokai.co.jp/sale/jpc04_web/images/TKY02.jpg

I know that. I guess we are missing the question here. He DID used the RoadKing, no doubt at all. And he had great tones. But he also uses a lot of effects and pedals and I remember seeing some overdrive pedals in the back of his rack. So my question is if his tone with the rectifier, namely the compressed sounds for leads, aren't achieved in some part because of the overdrive pedals.
I know what an overdrive pedal can do to tone, but here in Portugal is very difficult to try several pedals side by side. I have to go to several stores because each one sells only a brand or two of the ones that I'm looking for, so I'm asking for your help to select the most important ones.

I'm appreciating your help till now

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Keeley modded TS9DX Flexi 4X2 like Petrucci... :lol:

 

[TheBlackman]

I get a great lead tone out my roadster with either the OCD or my crybaby q-zone. I love what the q-zone does for my leads, give them that buttery neck-pickup lead tone all over the neck, even with the brit channel. I also have el34's in the head and found them better for getting each channel to have its own sound. Just perfected my clean sound last night with the tweed channel and my metal sound on ch4 modern with a 10-band mxr with a little mid-scoop and drop the 125hz a notch (too much bass for the rest of the band lol)...absolutely brutal :twisted:

 

[b0nkersx]

Keeley modded TS9DX Flexi 4X2 like Petrucci... :lol:

I'm pretty sure this guy's got it. You can find Petrucci's entire rig here:
http://www.johnpetrucci.com/gear.htm

He's used the Keeley modded TS9DX for a while. You can buy them at http://robertkeeley.com/product.php?id=36
I don't know if it's the only thing he used for leads, but it's a start to say the least.

 

[boogiewoogie]

Bruno Petrucci's concerns regarding the Roadster (RKII in my case) are pretty much the same as mine. I've been frustrated with the difficulty of playing fast lead lines with this amp, because of that loose,harsh and unforgiving feeling when playing. Hahaha I'm making it sound like I'm better off with some modeling piece of crap. But honestly, it's just that playing technique really shows thru rectifier amps. Nowadays I'm happier with the BB preamp and sometimes the drive function of my TC G-force for a different flavor.... and the presence on the 3rd channel of the RKII dialed loooooooooow

 

[b0nkersx]

My favorite lead sounds are in the brit mode with a lot of gain and treble, or the raw mode with a lot of treble. I think a lot of people discount the raw mode just because it has less gain than vintage, but I actually like the voice of it a lot more.

If you're worried about sloppy playing, don't blame the amplifier

 

[Bruno Petrucci]

Thanks boogiewoogie, that's very right what you say, that's the point and I know that. That's a feature of the amp and it really exposes my playing. But the BB Preamp helps dealing with that or is just for another flavor?

My favorite lead sounds are in the brit mode with a lot of gain and treble, or the raw mode with a lot of treble. I think a lot of people discount the raw mode just because it has less gain than vintage, but I actually like the voice of it a lot more.

If you're worried about sloppy playing, don't blame the amplifier

Ok b0nkersx, I've been waiting for that argument. And no, I won't blame the amplifier, because its a characterist of itself. And yes, I know what was behind that statment, but I wouldn't consider my playing as sloppy. Maybe it works for you but for my playing, which includes many fast passages, it isn't a perfect match. And I guess you agree that the pick attack (which con be translated as "compression") of this amp is not as fast as other amps, like Diezel or even the Marks. But I'm sure you already know that.

Till now the keeley, the OCD and BB Preamp are the most suggested. Can they be compared, particularly in their compression feature?

 

[b0nkersx]

Thanks boogiewoogie, that's very right what you say, that's the point and I know that. That's a feature of the amp and it really exposes my playing. But the BB Preamp helps dealing with that or is just for another flavor?

My favorite lead sounds are in the brit mode with a lot of gain and treble, or the raw mode with a lot of treble. I think a lot of people discount the raw mode just because it has less gain than vintage, but I actually like the voice of it a lot more.

If you're worried about sloppy playing, don't blame the amplifier

Ok b0nkersx, I've been waiting for that argument. And no, I won't blame the amplifier, because its a characterist of itself. And yes, I know what was behind that statment, but I wouldn't consider my playing as sloppy. Maybe it works for you but for my playing, which includes many fast passages, it isn't a perfect match. And I guess you agree that the pick attack (which con be translated as "compression") of this amp is not as fast as other amps, like Diezel or even the Marks. But I'm sure you already know that.

Till now the keeley, the OCD and BB Preamp are the most suggested. Can they be compared, particularly in their compression feature?

I was referring to the poster above me (boogiewoogie), not you. Sorry if it seemed that way. I agree with you still, but I play most of my leads on the brit mode on channel 2, so I really can't comment.

I think you should try the Keeley since you're a Petrucci fan, though. The pedals themselves aren't going to compress a whole lot; the compression is going to be brought about by the volume increase, since you're slamming the tubes harder. I know that the OCD has a bunch of volume, but I'm not sure about the other two.

 

[Bruno Petrucci]

Don't be sorry. Its just that I believe that sometimes I may not express myself correctly and I thought that what you said could be honestly aplied to me. I guess my english is only fine and in what concerns to this issue it's really difficult to me to differentiate between compressed/thick/fluid/tight sound. When you use those words I really don't know if they all mean the same or, if don't, what are their meaning.
In addition, I believe that the "compression" that I mean and I'm searching for is different than "compression" than can be achieved with a compressor. I'm I completely wrong?

 

[b0nkersx]

Don't be sorry. Its just that I believe that sometimes I may not express myself correctly and I thought that what you said could be honestly aplied to me. I guess my english is only fine and in what concerns to this issue it's really difficult to me to differentiate between compressed/thick/fluid/tight sound. When you use those words I really don't know if they all mean the same or, if don't, what are their meaning.
In addition, I believe that the "compression" that I mean and I'm searching for is different than "compression" than can be achieved with a compressor. I'm I completely wrong?

No, you're not wrong. However, Petrucci also uses a compressor pedal along with an overdrive, too, but I don't know if he uses it on leads.

Edit: try diode rectification if you haven't already. Also try modern mode (diodes) with an overdrive. A lot of people don't like it for leads, but I do. The pick attack seems to be much faster than vintage. I also crank the mids, though, which a lot of people do not.

 

[Bruno Petrucci]

He doesn't use compressor for leads (there's a video in which he says it). I've tried all the ways without any pedal and it seems impossible.
So do we all agree that an overdrive should help for my case? Fast leads, fast pick attack and tight leads?

 

[boogiewoogie]

yeah I agree with you about sloppiness, bonkers... :lol:
this is the old classic amp/pedal combination for leads issue
Bruno, I think you will not be happy until you try all of the recommended pedals and then decide wich one is the best for you (that is, if you decide not to sell the amp first haaha)
for rectifier amps people here really like the maxon od808, ocd, bb preamp, keeley ....
I only have the bb preamp and it is a sweet box... it sounds fantastic... very usable gain and it's very transparent...

 

[Bruno Petrucci]

yeah I agree with you about sloppiness, bonkers... :lol:
this is the old classic amp/pedal combination for leads issue
Bruno, I think you will not be happy until you try all of the recommended pedals and then decide wich one is the best for you (that is, if you decide not to sell the amp first haaha)
for rectifier amps people here really like the maxon od808, ocd, bb preamp, keeley ....
I only have the bb preamp and it is a sweet box... it sounds fantastic... very usable gain and it's very transparent...

Thanks

It's already for sale, but here in Portugal the Mesa amps are very expensive, so it's hard to sell. It's hard to try pedals too. And I guess that is no way to get a keeley in a store here. But I'll try as much as I can. If I can find one that suits me then I'll be an happy man

 

[KH Guitar Freak]

Keeley modded TS9DX Flexi 4X2 like Petrucci... :lol:

I'm pretty sure this guy's got it. You can find Petrucci's entire rig here:
http://www.johnpetrucci.com/gear.htm

He's used the Keeley modded TS9DX for a while. You can buy them at http://robertkeeley.com/product.php?id=36
I don't know if it's the only thing he used for leads, but it's a start to say the least.

Actually, I too use a Keeley modded TS9DX Flexi 4X2 with my Roadster. But that's before I even noticed that Petrucci has one in his rig as well when he was using the Road King II, and Mark IV and LoneStar setup. Granted, he probably hardly uses it now as he's rocking a Mark V that probably doesn't require a boost for his needs...

 

[Bruno Petrucci]

I guess this Keeley must be fine for what I want.

However, some people have been talking a lot about another pedal and its function on tightning the lead channels: the Bad Monkey. What can you tell me about this one? They say it's great with Rectifiers.
I know its a cheap pedal but there are many people that swears it's better that the Tube Screamers an their modded versions (although I think the Bad Monkey is also a clone of the TS).

And what about the year of my Roadster? Can anyone give me a clue? The serial is: VR-002971

Thanks guys

 

[b0nkersx]

The Bad Monkey is a tubescreamer with knobs for High and Low. It's a great pedal for its price.

 

[Bruno Petrucci]

The Bad Monkey is a tubescreamer with knobs for High and Low. It's a great pedal for its price.

I need more than that. The great for its price is important but is not the most important.
I read this in a blog:

"Bad Monkey Vs Tubescreamer

The BM is a far better pedal if you are after just boosting the amp. Basically using it as a clean boost (dime the level and zero out the gain for example). The bad monkey has a bit more level on tap then the TS9 as well so it can push those preamps a bit harder which is a plus for most applicaitons. Also the TS9 colors your tone quite a bit vs the bad monkey and what little coloration the BM has it can be taken out with a simple mod. What all this adds up to is the BM will tighten and add a bit more gain then your standard OD pedal like say a TS9. So that said its alot better clean boost in my opinion. More boost and more transparent..

Now the BM vs the TS9 as a stand alone pedal. The TS9 beats it hands down if your using it to mimic an overdriven tube amp example actually turning up the gain knob then the TS9 is your pedal its going to sound better and warmer. So using the pedal as an OD, the TS9 is a better pedal in my opinion. And the end result for metal I love the BM and it does a great job of pushing those preamp tubes harder allowing the amp to get into the metal realm without needing a ton of gain from the amp. And it really tightens up the amp in the process.

And reliability isnt an issue both are great solid pedals... "

Retired from: http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/IbanezPsycho/blog/

Do you agree with this? If so, I guess that covers my problems just perfectly and should be considered

 

[Blaklynx]

hi Bruno,

if you like the hi gain of the recto amp but difficult to play fast passages, you might want to try the Zoom Hyper Lead pedal. They're on ebay every now and then. Very quiet pedal and very well made. Silent footswitch and very good tone controls... treble, bass and mid level with mid frequency sweep. Gain and level controls. The pedal can provide alot of gain/drive and may be considered a mid-high gain/drive pedal. Excellent pedal. Read reviews on harmony-central.

I tried it with my rectoverb last night after replacing v1 with a 5751 preamp valve. I had the gain on the amp at about 10.30oclock. This pedal tightened the amp up and drove the amp beautifully, as if the gain level on the amp was around 1oclock and did not change the tone of the amp in a bad way at all. Everything just seemed smoother. I had the gain on the pedal low (about 9oclock) and level at unison. Tone controls as you see fit (I had it set so as not to change the tone too drastically).

I upped the gain on the pedal to about 10~10.30oclock and it was great for leads. Smooth and defined.

I understand what you want. When I bought the rectoverb and tried to solo, I thought the amp was no good. Very 'staccato-ish' in it's response and difficult to play, as if a noise gate was used in the amp. Legato, hammer-ons/pull-offs all sounded rather bad, not smooth or flowing from note to note at all. For rhythm, no problem. For solos.... well, so-so. So I use a drive pedal (different ones) for solos and sometimes a pedal for rhythm that I may leave on.

I have 20 or so drive pedals and some work very well and others not so well with the Recto. Oddly, with the Peavey JSX amp I have, all the 'not-so-good' pedals sound great with the JSX clean channel. The JSX is a very easy amp to live with and it has that compressed tone that you can solo all day with (on the crunch channel) and the Ultra channel is great for heavy stuff, ala Recto style, just different but very good). Satriani knew what he wanted.

Anyway, hope this helps (or confuses you more.....lol)