Retubing a TriAxis a 2:90

[Timbre Wolf]

p.s. U ROCK!

ICUROK2!

 

[Geebax]

well, after reading the topic i just came to the conclusion that I'm a total moron when it comes to tubes ....

I bought an used Triaxis about year and half ago (serial number T3300). Since I live in a apartment I rarely plug the whole rig (instead I use a pod xt - the wife says thanks ). So I'm not fully familiar with the TA. I think I have some real good sounds, but I think it's time to change the tubes (russian Boogies - sovteks ?) and probably original ones.

I use a marshall 8008 power amp (transistor), but have plans for a 2:90 next year. I like the early Petrucci sounds, think I&W, Awake, ACOS and FII eras (i know he used lots of different rigs, but that's the sounds I really like ), I play mostly Metal and shred type of music (but not closed mind to great guitar tones - espec. boogie ones )

Since I live in Brazil, it's beyond hard to get Boogie stuff (I bought mine in the US), the gear market is really sh!t, we're flooded with 2nd class stuff, imagine how hard is to get good tubes (nearly impossible ahahah)

What suggestions/recommendations do you have for new tubes. I won't even bother looking for N.O.S. tubes. I think I'll stick with regular tubes with good price and performance (and easy to find )

Also, I heard about the infamous Phat Mod, but I'm still confused about it (do I have it ?) and what's the advantages of having or not. When I turn it on the displays show 2.0, the inside eprom shows 2.0 (written with a pen over the label)

I'm posting some pics that may help to identify it

thank you guys !!

 

[Renarts]

I was actually satisfied with the stock Mesa tubes in my TriAxis for along time. Then I started do some research online about tubes and discovered a tube guru in nearby Denver and replaced all the tubes with JJ Teslas and noticed a distinct sweetening of my sound. I haven't had a chance to try any other variations, but I like the JJ's alot and they're cheap too. I read somewhere in this forum that Eurotubes.com has complete retube packages and his prices and service seem first rate.

http://www.eurotubes.com./index.htm

Hope that info is of some use for you.
8)

 

[Geebax]

thanks Renarts I'll definately will check it.

i just receved an email from MB telling me that my unit may not have the phat mod (my serial T3300), i'm still not sure if it's a good thing or not

 

[LnTh]

Okay now, in my way of thinking, "buttery" and "creamy" is somewhat at odds with a "tight low-end" (this is true when discussing human dietary habits as well). And, though "balanced tone" is a noble pursuit (and I do know what you mean), the philosophy I've evolved is that I'll leave "balanced" to the hi-fi crowd, because as a guitarist, I want character, which by its very nature is at odds with "balanced." What I've found is that the lauded hi-fi "balanced" neutrality (often typified by the Telefunken smooth plate ECC83) leaves me cold. Mini rant over, but at least now you know where I'm coming from.

You didn't say what Triaxis mode(s) you prefer, so I'll try to generalize. The tube that comes immediately to mind when I hear "buttery/creamy/healthy amounts of gain/not too bright" is the RFT ECC83.

The RFT ECC83 has "character" to spare. It is the earliest-breakup 12AX7 variant I know of. It does not clean up well (very compressed), so I'd only recommend it for V1 (lead 1 input, for a looser or impressionistically blurred high gain character) or perhaps V4 (lead 2 gain, for somewhat more focused gain - though attempting to force more articulation/definition opposes the nature of the RFT). If you want to confirm where V1 and V4 are located, there's a diagram in the manual; V1 is closest to the input, and they number sequentially towards the output. Another nice thing about the RFT is that it is still available for relatively cheap (i.e. less than $15 on eBay, if you dare).

If the RFT sounds like it may be too sloppy (and it is, that's why I like it), you may want to consider another "character" - the Mullard long plate/halo getter ECC83. This late '50's Mullard is my personal favorite for the lead 2 gain position (V4), and it is definitely NOT the same as the later-production short plate Mullard ECC83/12AX7 variants (and none of these should be confused with the GT12AX7M). Lows and low-mids are tight and distinct, and the whole sonic spectrum is clear, detailed and available in one dynamic package. Unlike the RFT, this tube will clean up beautifully, but when it is overdriven, it sings smoothly, like no other. If ever a tube was used to express the paradoxical "buttery but tight," it would be this one in V4. The bad news is that it is expensive ($45 used, $100 NOS), but consider that it will last very long when weighing the true value of this gem.

Hope you don't mind how long this post is, but if you'll bear with me, I'll tell you one more trick I've discovered: try a Mullard 12AT7WA (M8162/CV4024) in the V2 position. This is the lead 1 gain position, and the main input for lead 2 and clean modes. Beautiful lows and low-mids through open and airy present (but not obtrusive) highs will now bloom in your clean modes, and your lead modes will open up in ways you've never experienced. Gain will drop a little, but you can adjust your presets for that. These babies are the '70's and '80's versions (early '60's versions are more expensive and brighter) that are plentiful and available for $20 or less. A friend of mine had this to say when he tried one of these valves in his Triaxis "I must admit that last night I couldn't stop playing my guitar for hours. I had a smile on my face that refused to go away. Man, what have you done to me?" I'm confident that you'll like it as well.

I only gave you my top recommendations. Let me know if you'd like to hear about the runners-up, or if you want more opinions on the other tube positions (V3 and V5, plus the 2:90 input and PI positions). Remember, that when you make any of these tube changes, you'll have to tweak your settings to taste to bring out the best in your Triaxis. Enjoy!

:shock:

BOOKMARKED!!!

8)

 

[Muris_Varajic]

Wow,sadly I've just joined this community!
Recently I got some noise/gain issues with my Triaxis,
didn't know what tubes to pick
so I ordered a kit from Eurotubes.
Still waiting to get it and hopefully it'll solve my problems...

Glad I found you,see ya soon,cheers!

 

[RJ2213]

i'm completely happy with my retube kits from eurotubes, about a month or two ago i did a high gain retube kit on my triaxis and the standard 2:90, and **** did it give my tone the balls i was looking for. it fixed that one thing about my sound that was bothering me but i couldnt put my finger on.

 

[Muris_Varajic]

Thanks for input RJ2213,it gives some hope!

 

[crane]

I will give my personnal tests with my TA.
Initially, my TA has 5 EH inside, and it sounds good. I've tried to change some tubes with : JAN phillips 5751 for V2, TungSol for V1, V2 and V4, TAD balanced 12AT7 for V3 and V5.

My prefered modes are rythm green and yellow, and Lead 2 yellow. I play essentially rock, metal and old punk.

The NOS tube is very good for clean sounds, but it lack a lot of gain for the lead 1 section (but I don't use it ), and lead 2 become flat IMO.
The TungSol... well, I think all I can do is crushing them with a hammer, a least it will be funny...
12AT7 ? perfect, less hum, better tone, but a bit less gain too, but I will keep them: they quiet down my TA that has become very noisy after biasing my power amp (very hot, so a lot of hum).

So for the moment it's

V1, V2 and V4 : EH
V3 and V5 : TAD 12AT7

I've got a pair of sovtek 12AX7WA but have not tested them for now. Maybe they'll do it better.

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Thanks for posting that, Crane. I like hearing what others have done with their Triaxis.

With a 5751 in V2 (main input), and 12AT7 in V3, I'm not surprised you felt the "flat" response, if you used the same settings. I'm sure you discovered that you've got to adjust your gain levels when using lower-mu tubes. If not, give it a try, and see how you like it.

Best,

- Thom

 

[crane]

Yes of course. I'll give a try again, but my lead 2 setting with 9 of gain and drive can't go far, far further
I'll try the 5751 again with another tube in V3

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Yeah, in my Triaxis, with 12AT7 in V2, I found that my clean mode settings are max'-ed out. But that's okay, 'cause they sound better than with 12AX7 or 5751, to me. 5751 mu is 0.7 of a 12AX7, and 12AT7 is 0.6; in series (V2 through V3), you've lowered overall gain 0.7 x 0.6 = 0.42. It doesn't work out exactly like that, but you get the idea - about half the overall gain.

V5 is also a 12AT7? Unless you're running gain-sensitive effects in the loop, I would recommend going back to a 12AX7 there, for noise-reduction purposes. I actually use a slightly higher-mu tube, a 12BZ7, in that position. At the same volume, the 12BZ7 lowers the noise floor a little.

- T

 

[crane]

Thanx for your advises TW, as good as always !

I found a good place for the phillips 5751 : V4. I like the "grain" of the gain in that position. Tried again the Tung sols and give them to a friend 10min ago ^^
Yes V5 is actually a 12AT7, I will go back to an EH or a 12BZ7 like you said if I can found one, not an easy task here in Switzerland without a prohibitive send price...
I've bought a good recording device too, so I can make some good tracks soon to show my tube setting's results !

Seeya.

 

[crane]

Okay, back to a 12AX7EH for V5. Like it better.
So I have a chinese 12AT7 in V3 (TAD), The 5751 JAN phillips in V2 (or V4) and 12AX7EH on the other slots.
To my ears the TungSol reissue and the Sovteks 12AX7WA didn't do it.

The 5751 in V2 give a good definition, a bit less gain but there's still enough to skin off my cat sleeping front of the speaker :twisted:
In V4 the tone is very cool, less bass, less sustain but good "grain". Remind me some Epica's songs.

I prefer the V2 for the 5751, especially for the clean sounds. Combinated with the 12AT7 in V3 there's more headroom, I like it !

 

[LegGodt]

It's time to retube. Suggestions?

I have a Triaxis, 2:90 and 2 Thiele (90 watt and 200 watt) cabinets.

I'm looking to get a Petrucci clean and rhythm tone and a Steve Morse lead tone. But I also want the Lead 1 channels to be flexible and have a more modern high gain tone. Is this possible?

Currently I am using Rhythm Green and Yellow and Lead 2 Yellow plus some stomp boxes to go over the top.

My main guitar is an Ibanex JS 100 (Basswood, Floyd, DiMarizo Steve Special in the Bridge and Air Noron in the neck). I mostly use the bridge pickup (Humbucking Mode) and Bridge and Neck (Single Coil Mode) for rhythm. I usually use the neck pickups for leads.

Let me know if I need to give more info before giving suggestions.

Thanks!
- Dudley

 

[steeeeeeeeeevo]

This information is very intresting.
I have a 2:90 question on the new version.
I repaced the 6l6s with mesa 6l6 matched pairs
like this order

(6) (6) (5) (5)
(4) (4) (3) (3)

I could not get a matched quad from mesa.
Is this right or wrong.
I also could not find any info in the manual.
mabey it is supose to be
(5)(6)(5)(6)
(3)(4)(3)(4)

or
(3)(4)(5)(6)
(3)(4)(5)(6)

or does it even matter?

Thanks

 

[crane]

Okay, back with a few things to say about my TA retube.

I've tried lot of combinations with following tubes :
JAN PhillipsECG 5751
JAN PhillipsECG 12AX7WA
JAN RCA 5751
Mullard 12AT7 (CV4024)
ElectroHarmonix 12AX7A
Mullard 12AX7 reissue
Ruby 12AX7AC5
TAD 12AT7

First of all, I totally agree with Timberwolf and V2 : Mullard CV4024 ! Cleans are more open, there's more headroom due to the lower gain. And they sounds warm, clean, not too bright or sparkling. Both JAN PhillipsECG are great too, lots of bass but too much fizzy high that you can easy balance with EQ in clean channels. Yep, not so good in LD2 modes.

So about V4, I've found that EH is great with the CV4024 in V2 (good compromise, it's not expensive compared to the following NOS tubes), but my preference go to the JAN PhillipsECG 12AX7A because of its very good definition. Both give back the high that the Mullard lacks a bit for LD2 modes when used in V2, EH a bit more mids and less high than the Philips. The 5751 version of the JAN PhillipsECG works too, same grain but less gain. I prefer it when no high settings are needed. Ruby and new Mullard lacks definition.

V1. Again the JAN PhillipsECG tubes do great job there with the CV4024 in V2, for the same reasons than V4. Prefer the 5751 for low gain settings, the 12AX7WA for howling chords (LD1 red). The RCA is interresting here, it calm down the bite of the LD1 red, less high, more mids and low mids. The other tubes lack definition again IMO, or the have too much gain (EH).

V5 : Tried every tube, EH is my prefered, can't remember exactly why but it sound great. I have to investigate a bit more in that position.

V3. Timberwolf likes the RCA 5751 here. I've tried it, like it, but I went back for a... new Mullard 12AX7 ! it's a long plate, and I love the sound it gives combinated with the other tubes, and I finally needed more gain, so a high gain tube do the job better (master never exceed 3 in my settings, so no risk to saturate the opamp) : more crunch, exactly what I look for that I haven't found even with 12AX7 in V1-V2 or V2-V4. And cleans are a bit less soft, have more "character".


So every combination could be the one to your ears. You just have to try, take some time and patience.

My perfect setup ('til I found a better tube in V5)

V1 : JAN PhillipsECG 12AX7WA
V2: Mullard CV4024 (12AT7)
V3: Mullard 12AX7 reissue
V4: Jan PhillipsECG 12AX7WA
V5: ElectroHarmonix 12AX7A

Hope it can help you to find your sound.

Crane

 

[Timbre Wolf]

So every combination could be the one to your ears. You just have to try, take some time and patience.

Well stated!! I agree, wholeheartedly. And I'm glad you took the time, both to experiment, and to post your results. Thanks!

- Thom

 

[beelzibub]

I only gave you my top recommendations. Let me know if you'd like to hear about the runners-up, or if you want more opinions on the other tube positions (V3 and V5, plus the 2:90 input and PI positions). Remember, that when you make any of these tube changes, you'll have to tweak your settings to taste to bring out the best in your Triaxis. Enjoy!

I've recently been buying up NOS tubes recently to do some good old tube rolling in my Triaxis and I found this thread. Timbre Wolf - I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on the 2:90 input and PI tubes! I've been having similar issues to others on this message board with my Triaxis and/or 2:90 not behaving in regards to gain and levels. I've changed all tubes numerous times and I still cannot get my setup to sound good from day to day. Most days it just lacks the gain and clarity, but when it has a rare "on" day I tend to play for hours on end! My next step is to send it out to MB, I figure it could use a new button panel as well because some of the buttons are shredded from use! I'm assuming the gain/sound problem are from the Triaxis because it's not just an output level problem, but I could be wrong. I guess I don't really want to ship that 2:90, it's a heavy *******!

 

[Timbre Wolf]

Timbre Wolf - I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on the 2:90 input and PI tubes

Well... it has been over ten years, now, since I sold my 2:90 (wow! - time flies), and I did not have as many preamp tube choices then as now. Better that you tell me what qualities you'd like to accentuate (besides consistent volume/feel), and I can suggest tubes to help you get there.

As for the volume/feel fluctuations, it seems you need to do some more diagnosis of your system, first. After all, it could be a faulty patch cord that's causing those symptoms. Do you have a way to assess Triaxis output level? That would tell you if the problem was Triaxis, or 2:90. If it is the 2:90, it should be easy to identify one side or the other that has the problem. If both - that tells you it is probably your 2:90's V1 12AX7.

I recommend you do some more focused troubleshooting, and see if you can re-create the problem consistently. If you cannot re-create it, it will be difficult (and costly) for Mesa to fix the problem. Sorry to hear the rig has been plaguing you!

Best,

- Thom