REISSUE Rumor: Mark IIC+ and 2ch Recto

[MaceFremonti]

....and I just tracked down a pair of NOS 6ca7s.

 

[SonVolt]

Can anyone comment on the build quality of the Reissue? Someone over at Rig-Talk is saying the reissue's knobs/pots and sliders feel flimsy/cheap.

 

[Theresa]

I got word from my sales engineer at sweetwater. I did inquire about the use of EL34 tubes in the class A sockets. Based on his response he got from Mesa, use of EL34 tubes will void the warranty. Just for smiles and grins, here is the user manual if you could not find it yet.

The OG manual never mentioned EL34's either, yet we still used them in the outside sockets. LOL
Attached is the OG manual for reference. (There never was a "II C+" manual if I'm not mistaken. I have the original.)

 

[Fiveband]

Can anyone comment on the build quality of the Reissue? Someone over at Rig-Talk is saying the reissue's knobs/post and slides feel flimsy/cheap.

Look at the gut shots on the previous page. Reminds me of Supro reissues.

 

[frontline205]

Can anyone comment on the build quality of the Reissue? Someone over at Rig-Talk is saying the reissue's knobs/post and slides feel flimsy/cheap.

For me the knobs were a bit harder to turn honestly. The sliders felt like any other Mark EQ however. I would caution taking advice from guys who probably spent 10k on the OG or at least taking it with a grain of salt.
Having said that once again he is right. The knobs were a little tight (some of them) but that's kinda gone away as I kept using it through the weekend

 

[SonVolt]

Look at the gut shots on the previous page. Reminds me of Supro reissues.

I don't know what that means. No experience with Supros.

 

[Fiveband]

I don't know what that means. No experience with Supros.

It means the build has been modified to favor mass production. Make repair much harder.

The GEQ inductors are moved to the pre-amp board. Some wiring has been replaced with snap on connectors and ribbon cable.

Do ribbon cables lend themselves to crosstalk?

They for sure are harder to replace if they got hot and crumble. Same with those ribbon connectors that will be discontinued when you need them for a repair.

 

[VisaL]

I got word from my sales engineer at sweetwater. I did inquire about the use of EL34 tubes in the class A sockets. Based on his response he got from Mesa, use of EL34 tubes will void the warranty. Just for smiles and grins, here is the user manual if you could not find it yet.

So ok. Mesa originally started suggesting el34 tubes for the outer sockets because modern 6L6Gc tubes could not take the punishment of the simul-class. That is simply because the outer pair is not cathode biased "class A" where you can sustain 100% plate dissipation, but in fact it is class A/B biased to 100% (or more..). And tubes can't take that. Sylvania tubes could take it (I still have a quarted which survived for quite some time) for longer than modern valves can. Shove in El34 and tubes will bias marginally cooler and you have better change to survive. That's how it goes.

Now, mesa is shipping mk2c+ reissues with 6L6GC tubes. Which means output section is different from Mark 2/3 simulclass. If they say the use of el34 will void the warranty the transformer is not able to handle the higher heater current f el34. Another tell tale sign mesa did not release a reissue, but something that looks the same and will trick you to give your money to Gibson shareholders.

 

[Jay Omega]

The OG manual never mentioned EL34's either, yet we still used them in the outside sockets. LOL
Attached is the OG manual for reference. (There never was a "II C+" manual if I'm not mistaken. I have the original.)

Boogie's IIC+ schematic shows 6CA7 or EL34 use in V8 / V9 sockets, highlighted below:

 

[Doug Doppler]

Hello friends. Just took this video live, wide range of tones demonstrating how much as on 'OG' Mark IIC+ (HRG) owner I LOVE this amp. For me, it is right up there with my beloved JP~2C, Mark VII, Rev G Rectifier, and Badlanders. The demos, for me at least speak to my musical connection to an incredibly musical amp. Cheers Doug

 

[sloanthebone]

Hello friends. Just took this video live, wide range of tones demonstrating how much as on 'OG' Mark IIC+ (HRG) owner I LOVE this amp. For me, it is right up there with my beloved JP~2C, Mark VII, Rev G Rectifier, and Badlanders. The demos, for me at least speak to my musical connection to an incredibly musical amp. Cheers Doug

Fantastic video!!

 

[Doug Doppler]

Fantastic video!!

@sloanthebone THANK YOU, appreciated!

 

[bandit2013]

Boogie's IIC+ schematic shows 6CA7 or EL34 use in V8 / V9 sockets, highlighted below:


View attachment 5493

I agree. Mark III manual clearly stated use of EL34 recommended, heck my DRG from the factory was loaded with the STR416 6CA7/EL34 tubes and the STR415 6L6. Schematics on the III not very legible also indicated such. The Mark III manual was changed and they recommended against using the 6L6 tubes in the class A position due to premature tube failure. I did not seem to have any issue with a quad of 6L6 in the amp though. The Class A is 15W so I assume it sits within the safe operating area (note it is not a true class at but extended Class A push-pull, a modified form of the Class AB). Look up the patent information. Do a search on extended class A and you will find Randall Smith and Simul-Class. Extended Class A push-pull is too wordy and saying Class A is easier.

Anyhow, the reissue, runs the Class A pair at 25W capacity, will the EL34 tube remain in the safe operating area or will it be too cold? It is obvious they took advantage of the Mark VII design aspect of the power section. I have not seen the schematic for the reissue let alone the Mark VII or JP2C. The Mark V on the other hand, much like the Mark VII has a bias switch due to the extended power and pentode mode. Mark IVB, that one can safely run 6L6 or EL34 in the class A. Does not require a bias switch either. However, the Mark IVB is not 90W, more like 85W when using the pentode mode, 75W more than likely in triode mode.

To be honest, I don't care. Sure it would have been great if the Reissue could support the EL34 in Class A. At the moment I am only getting conflicting information. I will probably send a question to mesa through the zen desk and see what I get in response vs going through my sales rep at the dealership.

 

[Vogt-RK75]

Can anyone comment on the build quality of the Reissue? Someone over at Rig-Talk is saying the reissue's knobs/pots and sliders feel flimsy/cheap.

They feel better to me honestly. The old ones like on my mark IV it’s like a constant fight to move them even a little bit. These move with ease and I feel like you can be much more precise. The over all build quality feels good with the amp imo.

 

[rarebitusa]

Hello friends. Just took this video live, wide range of tones demonstrating how much as on 'OG' Mark IIC+ (HRG) owner I LOVE this amp. For me, it is right up there with my beloved JP~2C, Mark VII, Rev G Rectifier, and Badlanders. The demos, for me at least speak to my musical connection to an incredibly musical amp. Cheers Doug

Hands down the best video so far. thank you @Doug Doppler coaxed some great tones out of the amp. I learned a few new things that I want to try with my OG HR. That said IMHO always felt the IIC+ was always pegged as this metal amp... but it is so much more. Yea the single channel dual mode is limiting live no doubt but the unsung hero is Ch 2 as a pedal platform and that singing lead tone. wow

 

[Jay Omega]

He did another comparison with a Mark III. Did the same setup without this issue.

I just watched Paul's part 2 video and read some comments, this is unsettling. A high gain amp builder will know this sound quite well, hopefully Boogie is working to rectify and it can be resolved with lead dress

 

[tbonesullivan]

Well the official channel FINALLY dropped the video with tones that they should have put in the original launch.

 

[Lance Sheffield]

Hello friends. Just took this video live, wide range of tones demonstrating how much as on 'OG' Mark IIC+ (HRG) owner I LOVE this amp. For me, it is right up there with my beloved JP~2C, Mark VII, Rev G Rectifier, and Badlanders. The demos, for me at least speak to my musical connection to an incredibly musical amp. Cheers Doug

Hello Doug,
I Just watched your video on the Mark IIC+ Reissue comparison with the original and really appreciate your showing the versatility of this amp. I'm like you having bought my Mark IIC+ w / E.Q. & Simul-Class Combo in 1984 from Mesa when I was in college. I just sent it off to Mike B. in Petulma for a re-fresh last week and have been amused by all of the chatter out there surrounding the re-issue. The Metallica tones that the amp is capable of are entirely one dimensional compared to the wide range of settings that you demonstrated that I don't believe many users are aware of. It took me a year to figure that amp out back in 1984...there weren't any "OG's" or youtube videos back then but that amp is magic. Every studio I ever used that amp in wanted to buy it for its versatility.

My favorite feature of the amp is its sustain and ability to feedback musically especially for lead work at very low volumes that really sets it apart from anything else to my ear. It is probably also the most emulated amp in the modeling world, and I will say that I have two great Fractal units that I really enjoy but the Mark IIC+ lead tone that I just described is something that modelers currently are just not capable of. I have tried to explain this but most users are interested in the high gain metal tones which I do appreciate but not what I typically play.

I wanted to also ask you about any Mods that you are familiar with for this amp ...I wouldn't mind a bit more gain if it didn't sacrifice the amps character and thought you would be a good source for an opinion. My amp is currently in Petulma but according to Mike probably a month or two from getting on the bench-as long as the amp comes back to its original specifications I am happy as well.

Great video and appreciate you insights!

Lance Sheffield

 

[Doug Doppler]

Hello Doug,
I Just watched your video on the Mark IIC+ Reissue comparison with the original and really appreciate your showing the versatility of this amp. I'm like you having bought my Mark IIC+ w / E.Q. & Simul-Class Combo in 1984 from Mesa when I was in college. I just sent it off to Mike B. in Petulma for a re-fresh last week and have been amused by all of the chatter out there surrounding the re-issue. The Metallica tones that the amp is capable of are entirely one dimensional compared to the wide range of settings that you demonstrated that I don't believe many users are aware of. It took me a year to figure that amp out back in 1984...there weren't any "OG's" or youtube videos back then but that amp is magic. Every studio I ever used that amp in wanted to buy it for its versatility.

My favorite feature of the amp is its sustain and ability to feedback musically especially for lead work at very low volumes that really sets it apart from anything else to my ear. It is probably also the most emulated amp in the modeling world, and I will say that I have two great Fractal units that I really enjoy but the Mark IIC+ lead tone that I just described is something that modelers currently are just not capable of. I have tried to explain this but most users are interested in the high gain metal tones which I do appreciate but not what I typically play.

I wanted to also ask you about any Mods that you are familiar with for this amp ...I wouldn't mind a bit more gain if it didn't sacrifice the amps character and thought you would be a good source for an opinion. My amp is currently in Petulma but according to Mike probably a month or two from getting on the bench-as long as the amp comes back to its original specifications I am happy as well.

Great video and appreciate you insights!

Lance Sheffield

Hey @Lance Sheffield - first off congrats on the amp, and being the OO (original owner)!!! Thanks for the kind words as well, and YES, this amp is so much more than what it is 'famous for'. And yes, that singing soaring lead tone being one of those things, beautiful cleans tones too I have seen a couple people with the Mr. Scary mod which I believe is a tube socket retrofit that does not alter the chassis. I am gonna do a bit more research on this. It is VERY George Lynch, BUT my guest is not totally maxed out on gain it can probably work some magic. Thanks again for the kind words, pleasure to eMeet you as well

 

[Lance Sheffield]

Doug,
I really appreciate your getting back to me on potential MODs...yes, if you could possibly find anything on the Mr. Scary mod that sounds interesting, or any other mod that might provide a bit more gain without comprimising the original tone or value I'd really appreciate it.
I'll be watching out for your next video and Happy Holidays.
Thanks Doug,
Lance