Recto with EQ pedal in loop....

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jdurso

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Just got back from a business trip and found a GC in that area and found myself playing a VHT CL100 for about 2 hours..... awesome amp.... but my question is anyone using a eq pedal in their loop? What i found from the VHT and also from when i had my Mark IV, is that the amp really comes to life when using the post eq..... so if anyone is using a eq pedal in their fx loop to emulate that effect on their tone just wondering which eq pedals/racks are you using
 
I use a simple Danelectro Fish n' Chips graphic EQ in my TR's loop occasionally. It lets you dial back on some of the Recto's famous 200 Hz mud and bump up just a bit of that much sweeter 100 Hz percussive thump.
 
Chris McKinley said:
I use a simple Danelectro Fish n' Chips graphic EQ in my TR's loop occasionally. It lets you dial back on some of the Recto's famous 200 Hz mud and bump up just a bit of that much sweeter 100 Hz percussive thump.

I use the same pedal but in front of the amp, but after reading this I might try it in the loop, since I keep it engaged for the solo and master output features anyway. What is your pedal set to Chris, and what style of music do you play?

P.S. @$29.99 the Fish 'n Chips is a killer deal, sounds just as good as my other guitarist's Boss GE-7....

-AJH
 
AJH,

I had a Boss GE-7 and gave it away when I got the Danelectro because the Fish n' Chips is much quieter than the Boss.

There's nothing wrong with putting an EQ in front of the amp, as long as you remember that is has much less total influence on the tone there than in the post-preamp effects loop. Sometimes I use an EQ in both locations at the same time. The before-amp EQ is to cut bass frequencies just slightly and boost highs just slightly before the signal hits the preamp.

Then, after the preamp, I rebalance those frequencies by boosting bass just slightly and cutting back highs just slightly in the effects loop EQ. What this does is hit your preamp hard with lots of highs, causing greater saturation of those frequencies. Highs can take more saturation without sounding muddy than lows can. By cutting lows before the amp, you let the preamp saturate the hell out of the whole signal's frequency range without crossing over into mud for the lows.

Then, because you want your lows back for the final sound, you boost the lows in the effects loop back to where you want 'em. But because those lows are still articulate rather than muddy, you get bass without mud. It's a thing of beauty.

Also, you slightly cut back on your highs in the effects loop EQ to bring the highs back to the balance you want them at, but because they were pushed so hard into the preamp, now all of a sudden your highs are supersaturated and sing like a choir of angels.

The overall result is almost like what you would get if you could turn up the Recto's gain to 100%, but selectively cut out all the muddying frequencies.

All of the above is for when I use two EQ's at once. If I'm only using one EQ, it goes exclusively in the effects loop so that I can tailor the already great Mesa tone to sound more like one type of music or another. For instance, if I'm playing some Metallica, I'll do the classic mid-scoop on the EQ. If I'm doing some classic Les Paul/Marshall type of rock, I'll start with flatline, then cut 200 Hz about 2-4 db, bump 400 Hz about 2 db, and bump 800 Hz anywhere from 4 db (KISS, Aerosmith, B.O.C., Led Zep, Journey) all the way to 10 db for that singing Boston solo tone. For the latter, I also use a germanium-based treble booster that I built myself in front of the amp. When I do, even on a Rectifier I don't even have to wait for feedback to start before I get sweet, singing overtones....much like a hot-rodded Marshall.
 
its great what an eq pedal can do in the loop.... it'd be nice to see a recto with a graphic eq built in like the mark iv and the VHT amps..... it can really take a great amp with great tone to another level.... it also can tighten up what most consider a loose sound..... i love the recto sound but agree in some instances.... i'm currently thinking about the mxr eqs or even a rack eq thats programable.... thanks for the input guys
 
any issue with the graphic eq input impedance? I mean, is it supposed to receive a signal from a guitar or a line-level signal? Or does it behave well in every position?
 
RE: "6-band MXR EQ works great in my Roadster's loop. Tightens things up for a heavier tone...". This kind of gets at what I was describing regarding cutting the 200 Hz just a bit and boosting 100 Hz instead. When people on this forum talk of "tightening" up the bass, most of the time what they're talking about is cutting some of the 200 Hz bass. 200 Hz is where mud lives. This is sometimes why a lot of modern recordings of the Rectifier don't sound nearly as heavy as older recordings where a souped-up Marshall or Mark IV were used. The Rectifier has a lot of bass on tap, but unfortunately too much of the attenuation of the bass knob of the amp is centered around 200 Hz. That's why sometimes the amp doesn't get more percussively powerful when you turn up the bass knob, it just gets muddier and muddier.

Using a graphic EQ in the effects loop (not before the amp) can help tame the nasty 200 Hz muddies, while still allowing you to keep the amp's bass knob nice and high if that's how you like it. In fact, it can also allow you to further boost the 100 Hz frequencies for even more percussive thump in your bass frequencies. These are the frequencies that shake your audiences chest when you do loud palm-muted chugs.

An EQ can also help restore a bit of midrange balance to an amp like the Rectifier, which has a bit of a scoop to start with. Another side benefit of EQ's is that it gets people out of the simplistic level of understanding where they refer to their tone in terms of just bass, mids and treble, and into being able to truly customize their sound the way they really like. EQ's aren't very sexy, but they're second only to a good clean boost/overdrive in terms of being essential for taking your tone from 'off-the-rack' to truly outstanding.
 
MusicManJP6 said:
6-band MXR EQ works great in my Roadster's loop. Tightens things up for a heavier tone... :twisted:

+1!

I just pickup the MXR 6 band EQ, WOW! it really helps with the tone shaping on my stiletto for heavy rock!
 
i use a MXR 10-Band EQ along with my GT-500 and my FD2 for my drive sounds on my LSS rig. Really versatile setup. I can hold my own against DR's, TR's and Roadsters.
 
I use a MXR M-108 10 band EQ in the loop of my Mark IV. I much prefer it over the built in 5 band.
 
:?: So, does the EQ in the loop accomlish what the controls on the Recto are INCAPABLE of doing?

OR, Does an EQ in the loop just give more of a factual/visual representation of where the frequencies are, unlike the controls on the amp which are more cantankerous and dependant upon each other???
 
cellardweller said:
:?: So, does the EQ in the loop accomlish what the controls on the Recto are INCAPABLE of doing?

OR, Does an EQ in the loop just give more of a factual/visual representation of where the frequencies are, unlike the controls on the amp which are more cantankerous and dependant upon each other???

hmm. well, a little of both. you get more control and precision with a multi-band eq in the loop. so don't know if i would go as far as "incapable" but it's akin to using a scalple instead of a kitchen knife. and yes, a mesa's tone knobs have an interactive thing going on with each other that a graphic eq doesn't really have. and a graphic is more visual, like you said.
 
cellardweller and everybody,

A tone control can only govern so many frequencies at once, and is attenuated to a center frequency. As an example of this, when Randall came up with the Stilletto series, one of the advertising points of that amp was that its bass control governed a higher range of bass frequencies than that of the Rectifier series, since the bass response of a Marshall (which is what the Stilletto is Mesa's answer for) isn't as low as the Rectifier.

Let's say for example that the main "oomph" of the bass frequencies on a Marshall was around 250 Hz. Setting the bass knob on a Marshall to govern 80 Hz isn't going to do very much, since that amp doesn't really reproduce those low frequencies in any great quantity. Setting it at 250 Hz would give you maximum control over the bass frequency range that the amp produces the most of, thereby giving you the most control over the overall amount of bass. This is a logical thing to do, and what the manufacturers indeed practice most of the time.

As another example, let's say you owned a Rectifier and liked the tone overall, especially the great amount of bass it puts out. Let's also say that you prefer to play with the tube rectifier rather than the silicon diode. However, you'd like to tighten up the bass a bit and get rid of some of the mud/flub that happens when you crank the bass knob, but without having to dial your bass knob back so much that you lose all the bass, or without having to switch to silicon diode rectification.

The answer might be to put a good graphic EQ in the effects loop, where you could leave every slider on the EQ at "0" except that you carefully lower the slider at 200 Hz until just the mud and flub go away, but the rest of your bass is still there. Or you might actually like the mud and want even more of it. Or you might want more percussive thump from your bass response for heavier chugging, so raise the slider at 100 Hz just a bit.

This applies to mid and treble frequencies as well. Let's say you like your Rectifier's tone overall, but you're playing some old Metallica. Rather than scoop out all the mids by turning the Mid knob way down, you could just put a graphic EQ in the loop (not, I repeat, NOT in front of the amp) and turn down 800 Hz a good amount, and maybe 1.2 KHz a tiny bit. This is the classic mid scoop and will get you mastering your puppet in no time.

Or, let's say you play an Ibanez RG through a Recto in a cover band, and your song set list has some Foo Fighters, but it also has Journey's "Any Way You Want It". Since the Foos recorded with a Recto, getting that tone is effortless. However, nailing the Journey tone is going to be a bit tougher on a Recto, compared to a Marshall or a Stilletto. Never fear, just leave channel 3 to do the Foos, and set channel 2 to Vintage, with tube rectification on both. You could keep a graphic EQ in the loop set to cut 200 Hz mud, slightly boost 400 Hz Les Paul "woodiness", and significantly boost 800 Hz for that mid-heavy, singing tone of the 70's. When it came time to do the Journey song, just change to channel 2 and kick on the EQ and there you are. No need to go and buy a separate Marshall and Les Paul.

Graphic EQ's are all about giving your amp maximum tonal versatility. They give you more precise control over your tone compared to the relative hamhandedness of a typical tone knob. Some folks honestly can do just fine without one, especially through a great amp like a Mesa. However, the tweakers are going to love the extra precise control they'll have in nailing a particular tone, and let's face it, the tweakers are the guys who care enough about their tone to end up buying a Mesa in the first place rather than a $100 Wal-Mart special or even a crappy recent Marshall. :mrgreen:
 
Chris your posts in this thread have helped me understand EQ better than anything I've read. It's nice reading about what frequencies mean mud, which ones sound woody, which ones are like which band, etc. I'm definitely going to pick up one of those Danelectros to put in my Roadster loop, because I always feel like my Roadster has all this potential but just needs fine tuning.

Its amazing how much difference cutting and boosting individual frequencies can make.
 

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