Not much gain in my 2 channel triple

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Rad.

Keep us posted on how things go with your tone quest. I still think you'd fancy a pair of BKP Aftermaths or Painkillers. I'd give a Painkiller my highest recommendation for you given your style.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bare-Knuckle-Painkiller-Set-7-String-Wide-4-Cond-Black-NEW-/281076309142?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item4171741c96
 
Keep in mind that is for a Neck and Bridge set.

Well, not any 'cheaper' ideas if you want something that is super clear, articulate, and punchy, even with insane amounts of gain. With a Les Paul, I feel limited in what I would suggest since you need something that is clear and articulate, not something thick and phat. High output Seymour Duncans can push a lot of signal but they tend to be thicker and warmer, something that is not so desirable for super high gain, especially with a Les Paul and a Mesa. Remind me, are you playing a 7 string or a six string bari? I'm trying to think what you should try.

I'm sure some other guys here also have some great pickups to recommend for high gain styles. How much are Tom Anderson pickups? Mesa tests all their amps on Tom Anderson guitars.
 
Les paul 7 62-10 tuned to B atm i have used 68-10 when tuning to A#, - G# definitely only doing bridge pickup for now

Side question i picked up a 17 range i think maybe 19.. multi meter for cheap. Will that work for checking components?
 
Think i may have found the culprit. or at least a major contributer! :roll: Picked up a Multiemeter, and checked the pots in the guitar... rhythm vol. rolled up to 441, rhythm tone to 468, treble tone up to 480 ish, the treble volume pot...(the main one i use) it rolls up to about 132k, (halfway or so) then rolls back down to 12k!!! :shock: Funny thing is when you listen to it, as you turn it up there is a continued increase in volume... can that happen while decreasing in signal?
 
Stupid question. Wouldn't that mean the 'high end' is rolling off the signal. You have the equivalent of a mean lowpass filter there. I'd retest it anyhow.
 
YellowJacket said:
Stupid question. Wouldn't that mean the 'high end' is rolling off the signal. You have the equivalent of a mean lowpass filter there. I'd retest it anyhow.

I don't have a clue :) I have tested and tested and retested it... keeps rolling up to 132k then back down to 12k... non of the other pots do that
 
Definitely start with replacing the electronics on your guitar then. It's an extremely low cost mod and it sounds like you may get the best results with it. Test the CTS pots and put the two pots with the highest values on the treble part of the circuit and the two pots with the lowest values on the rhythm side of the circuit.
 
I realize my recording was done with cheap mic, were you able to tell anything about my tone? It seems grainy to me. we're headed to fort wayne gonna a/b w/ a 3 channel. Also gonna try some higher end guitars. Didn't break the 800$ mark at gc. What should i notice in regards to difference in gain in a 3 channel ?
 
Aw man, you were supposed to break the $3,000 mark with guitars. Of course you won't notice a difference between your stock pickups and everything in an entry / midrange instrument.

The 3rd channel sounds more cutting or 'fizzy'. The added clean channel is nice but it is not stellar. Channel 2 and 3 actually have different voicings from one another, where channel 3 has a much more aggressive taper on the presence pot.
 
They weren't very accommodating, i would have needed an extension ladder to get to the $1k guitars... Sweetwater seems more accommodating. I'll try and be a stickler on the high dollar guitars this time. Thanks for talking this through with me ;)
 
Well, played on a $3500 prs, pickups were brighter, maybe a slight difference in gain, maybe.
They only had a dual to a/b it with. My 2 channel triple sounded more open, warmer (tone settings the same). My gear through the slant back w/ 30's sounded crisper. My guitar sounded darker than the others i played. My diagnosis is speaker/cab seems to be a definite factor, combined w/darker sounding pickup. Neither amp had much saturation at 1-2 o clock. Boost pedal fixed that in a hurry.
 
Looks like you need a boost pedal ^___^

I guess you didn't try a Tremonti Signature Singlecut? Some of the other PRS models have much lower output pickups although they are higher quality which = more tone. Tremonti likes a boatload of output which means more gain in the front end. With pickups you hear many factors in quality. Generally a high quality pickup CAN be higher output but some (PAF style humbuckers) are lower output and intended for Blues / Classic rock. They may be less hot but they are brighter, clearer, and have more soul / dynamic response. Much more expressive and three dimensional.

Another question. What height were the PRS pickups in relation to yours. I recall you had yours cranked too high so that is probably why you get more output from it.

To determine what pickup to put in your guitar, try playing it unplugged and put your ear against the body of the instrument. Listen to the tone. You want a pickup that best complements the natural voice of the instrument. A dark and bassy instrument works well with a pickup that is brighter and accentuates the high frequencies. If it has a tight low frequency response, that's also very helpful.

Contrary to this, if you have a very bright and thin sounding instrument (Think 'superstrat' like an Ibanez Prestige) then you want a dark and thick sounding pickup with a huge bottom end.

Output: This is how much electrical signal is generated by a pickup. If you have more windings on the pickups and stronger magnets, you get more current which means more output and by extension, more gain. The tradeoff is that the pickup sounds compressed and it is less responsive. There is a tradeoff between gain and tone / expression overall. The trick is to find that magic point where there is ENOUGH gain to get the tone you want without sacrificing tone in the process. Often, this equates to effort being expended by the right hand as well as some broken strings haha.

I get a lot of saturation with my 2 channel dual with the gain at 3 O'Clock, almost too much. It's fantastic for Death Metal and searing leads but not for much else. For rock, I'll typically run the gain at 2:00 and I'll back off the volume knob for crunch tones. This gives a softer clip which fits well with the genre. With my audio taper pot, I get quite a large decrease in signal when I roll the volume on my guitar to 8 or so, which yields quite a dramatic result. I also find the different values on the tone control make the tone pots useful since they only cut the bright highs and leave the mids intact. As the tone nears zero, it yields a very round, open, and warm sound.

My Bare Knuckle Rebel Yells are fairly hot but not so hot as active pickups or anything geared specifically towards metal. The biggest different is more with tone. They are more open and 'even' sounding, especially in the high end. They are very clear and bright pickups which means I can pour on the gain while maintaining a wide pick attack and a tight bottom end. Where the stock Burstbuckers would have become flubby and mushy, the 'knuckles' sound crisp, clear, and articulate.

I'm also interested to see how much new electronics open up the sound of your guitar. In of itself, that should give you a less dark tone.

Anyway, I digress.

I guess the verdict is:

1) needs a boost pedal. c.a. $150 or less. This is your top priority, I think.

2) Pickups are dark sounding, possibly because the volume pot for the bridge pickup is not letting enough high frequencies through. Swapping electronics will help. Approx $50. Lowering the pickup slightly and raising the pole pieces will give a brighter and more articulate sound but at the expense at output. Worth a try. If the electronics solve the tone problem, you may not need to upgrade pickups just yet.

3) You predictably like v30s better as well as a closed back cab. This is a bigger expense which is probably a long range acquisition, right? I'd suggest saving your cash beforehand and acquiring a suitable cab and then flipping your 4 x 12 to mitigate most of the cost. I think a 4 x 12 in good condition can be had for $600 or less. If yours is also in good condition, you should be able to fetch close to that as well.

4) Pickup(s). You will have to decide if this is worth it or not. Is it worth dumping $100+ into what is probably an $800 guitar? A full set of boutique pickups are $300 or maybe more for the 7 string version so you have to ask yourself if that money is better spent on a new premium quality instrument. Sure, it will make your instrument sound better but I am not convinced it is the best financial investment at this point.
 
good stuff
yeah this thing was cool http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ClassABoost/ no funny business... just straight boost. with it cranked it gave me the saturation level i have at 3 oclock at 12 8) BUT it dd introduce some extra line noise even when not engaged (only on high gain modes)

3 oclock gives me usable gain, plenty for recording. for playing i perfer it closer to 4or5. 3 oclock seems better on tube rectification than on diodes. hadn't tried thea yet.. :roll: been using diodes for my pedal. Tube Rect. seems to give a softer kind of more saturated sizzle. (begining to wonder if this thing is growing on me :lol:)

tried to adjust the pole pieces out on the pickups and 2 of them went in slightly and won't come back out... :roll: :roll: thats not gonna help my cause.

I will do new pots and caps.. at the very least for the treble side for now and see what that does.

Overall my tone could use a brightening up, im using jj 6l6s, a mesa, a epi. les paul, a 3/4 back, all seem to not lend to "brightness"

I agree right now, i'm not wanting to dump tons of dough into this thing. maybe a better, brighter, but not top dollar pickup... though i think those are at least $80-90 compared to $160... I would consider a high dollar pick up at the bridge, but wouldn't consider it at all right now in the neck position.

i'll hold off on any changes in cab till i address my guitar, i like this cab also it has a massive feel to it, and it's WAY easier to carry than it's bigger brothers.
 
1) Rad on the boost. Just expect extra noise since the boost is taking a tiny signal from the guitar and juicing it up. (Amplifying it) Any noise / etc will get louder as a result. This is why bands like periphery use a noise gate in their signal chain as well. Personally, I prefer to let my right hand do the 'heavy lifting' while I play. More dynamic means a more musical tone. Tone is in the fingers.

The Ibanez TS9 and Maxon OD808 are also good boosts. The usual configuration is to turn the gain down to zero, turn the volume up, and add 'tone' to taste.

The Recto will grow on you. Distortion is not all about gain saturation, it is nice to hear the sound of the guitar as well. When you get the necessary aggression in your picking hand the dynamic response will actually make the amp sound heavier because you'll get great gut pounding thump from palm mutes.

2) I'd suggest to swap all the electronics on the guitar i.e. pots and caps. You're really saving a few dollars to only do the 'treble side' and with the amount you pay for shipping, it really makes no sense. You'll probably get good results out of your stock neck pickup this way anyway. I get the impression you don't play clean or solos much. (I use my Neck pickup all the time for Blues / Clean / and Lead playing)

3) I'll try and look up some less expensive pickup upgrades. You need to do that test I told you about. Put your ear on the body of your guitar and play it unamplified. Listen to how it sounds and describe the tone. Listen to how bright (or dark) it is, how thin (Or woofy) it is, as well as how present the midrange is. You want to get an idea of what the unamplified sound of the instrument is, since this will help you pick the correct pickup to pair with it. You will want a 'hot' or high output humbucker and I'm guessing you want something with crisp highs, powerful mids, and a tight bass.

Seymour Duncan:

Seymour Duncan offers the Duncan Distortion (SH-6) in a 7 string option. It has a Bass / Mid / Treble EQ of 5/8/9 which means it will be bright and tight. Make sure to get the 'bridge' version.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0&_nkw=Seymour+Duncan+7+string+Duncan+DIstortion&_sacat=0&_from=R40


Here is a good neck pickup option if you want to try that.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/78-string/7_string_sentie/


DiMarzio:
Judging from the frequency response, I'd say most of their hot pickups are designed for super strats. Too much lows will not jive well with the Les Paul.

This is probably a good option
The D Activator 7. Probably my top pick from DiMarzio.
http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/7-string/d-activator-7-bridge

Or this
http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/7-string/evolution-7

These are standard and readily available high end pickups. They aren't boutique and snooty like Bare Knuckle but for you, they'll probably get the job done. These are probably a big jump over what you have already, but do bare in mind that the Knuckles are that much of a leap up all over again. You get what you pay for so if you want clear, tight, and crushing tone, you might want to shell out the extra $$$s after all.
 
YellowJacket said:
2) I'd suggest to swap all the electronics on the guitar i.e. pots and caps. You're really saving a few dollars to only do the 'treble side' and with the amount you pay for shipping, it really makes no sense. You'll probably get good results out of your stock neck pickup this way anyway. I get the impression you don't play clean or solos much. (I use my Neck pickup all the time for Blues / Clean / and Lead playing)
Agreed

YellowJacket said:
This is probably a good option
The D Activator 7. Probably my top pick from DiMarzio.
http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/7-strin ... r-7-bridge
I was looking at this same pickup

Interesting, the mysterious 12k reading is that bridge pickup, went to swap the existing volume pots just out of curiousity, and once i detatched the pickup wire it read 0-504...(hottest pot) :shock: attatching that pickup to the rhythm volume pot produced the same weird 12k reading. im guessing some form of short in the pickup.
 
Did you have the tone pot turned down when you were testing the volume pot? **curious**

Don't rule out the duncan distortion just yet. It appears to have an even brighter top end and a tighter bass response than the DiMarzio. With a recto, powerful mids are a huge asset for rhythm crunch tones and you definitely need less bass always ;)
 
It does it both ways.

Those look nice too..

My pickup feedsback like crazy now... opened it up.. not supposed to are you?? :oops:
 
This is why bands like periphery use a noise gate in their signal chain as well. Personally, I prefer to let my right hand do the 'heavy lifting' while I play. More dynamic means a more musical tone. Tone is in the fingers.

i run a gate on my pedal, but i noticed that with that clean boost and even my gated pedal, when running to high gain on the amp the the gain noise is amplified. dead quiet on my clean/ pedal..
 

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