Not much gain in my 2 channel triple

[Tone1026]

Listen, you are using weak *** epiphone pickups. Have you tried adjusting the pickup height on your bridge pickup? If your pickups are very low, you will get a very weak signal going into the amp which would account for the lack of gain saturation you are experiencing. Switching to a very hot pickup will give you far more gain saturation, a far bigger difference than switching one preamp tube. Switching the electronics for CTS500k pots will give you that extra bold / open high end you want. Adding a clean boost into your signal will amplify this effect further.

If you want to test your amp, take it to a music store and AB it against other rectos with some higher end guitars. You will hear almost immediately if there is a problem with the amp itself. Definitely get it checked out in the event something is wrong.

Bridge pickup is set to just be shy of touching w/ string pressed down on last fret. Didn't think a store would even let me haul my amp in and do that? Pots are stock 500k. I appreciate the help.

There is a very slight difference, not enough to go from "White Stripes" to "KSE" tones with just a tube swap, that's for sure. I would still go with the Tung-Sol in V1 regardless.

White stripes is in the 12 oclock position, gain cranked has a what i would consided "hard rock" tone. Which actually sounds quite good recorded.

Thanks for helping me not spend money on stuff that might not help. I would love to be able to take this thing in somewhere where there is a new TR and some high end guitars.

 

[domct203]

Listen, you are using weak *** epiphone pickups. Have you tried adjusting the pickup height on your bridge pickup? If your pickups are very low, you will get a very weak signal going into the amp which would account for the lack of gain saturation you are experiencing. Switching to a very hot pickup will give you far more gain saturation, a far bigger difference than switching one preamp tube. Switching the electronics for CTS500k pots will give you that extra bold / open high end you want. Adding a clean boost into your signal will amplify this effect further.

YJ is right on the money here. Crap pickups = crap tone. BTW, with the p'ups that close to the strings you are killing your sustain. At the very least you should try a front end boost. The Digitech Bad Monkey is a decent OD that can be had on the cheap, especially used.

Then why the massive jump in overall volume when switching from Vintage to Modern via channel cloning? Oh well, the tube task chart indicates that you are correct.

The jump in volume is due to the increase in sensitivity of the input stage of the power-amp, and the elimination of negative feedback. When I switch on Modern Mode of my Recto 2:100 there is a big jump in volume and sensitivity, regardless of the preamp I am using. My Engl E530 into the Recto 2:100 in Modern Mode gets close to Rectifier-Tone territory.

Dom

 

[YellowJacket]

Bridge pickup is set to just be shy of touching w/ string pressed down on last fret. Didn't think a store would even let me haul my amp in and do that? Pots are stock 500k. I appreciate the help.

That's a bit high actually, which will kill sustain and degrade the tone somewhat. The trick is to find the ideal height but I really think you need a new bridge pickup at this point. You won't believe how much more output high end modern passives put out. Volume pots are 500k but the tone pots are 300k I'm pretty sure. For the $50 you'd spend on new preamp tubes, I'd strongly suggest replacing your guitar electronics. It's the BEST hands down value for money mod you can do on any guitar and recommended heartily over at the Les Paul forum. Geez, the CTS audio taper pots and PIO caps are a huge improvement over stock GIBSON USA components, let alone EPIPHONE ones. To put it in perspective, switching from Burstbucker Pros to BKP Rebel Yells gave me a gain in tone and then switching my electronics gave me that same gain yet again. The pickups cost $300+ and the electronics were $50. The guitar came alive with a much more bold and alive sound! Gibson's Custom shop line (read $5,000 list price guitars) comes stock with the high end pots and caps. The crappy electronics are a cost cutting measure.

YJ is right on the money here. Crap pickups = crap tone. BTW, with the p'ups that close to the strings you are killing your sustain. At the very least you should try a front end boost. The Digitech Bad Monkey is a decent OD that can be had on the cheap, especially used.

You can upgrade your pickup and electronics for between $125 to $250 and you can get a boost pedal for the same. More than one way to skin a cat. If you do both, things will be MUCH better.


I try gear at the music store all the time and I'd also haul my gear out there. Music store employees generally don't have much of a problem with it.

 

[domct203]

You can upgrade your pickup and electronics for between $125 to $250 and you can get a boost pedal for the same. More than one way to skin a cat. If you do both, things will be MUCH better.

+1. Just be sure to spend some time doing your research on p'ups, the selections can be over-whelming, as well as the prices. I would plan to swap out the p'ups regardless of where you go with the Triple Recto.

If this was me, I would get a boost pedal first to play around with why I looked into p'ups. They are all used the same, very low to no overdrive, very high to max output level, tone to taste.

Dom

 

[Tone1026]

Guitar Center said i could take it in and play some guitars through it.
I realize my guitar needs updated anyway, but i get plenty of sizzle running through my pedal. I would like to see what the level of improvement might be in the area of guitar related issues before making any purchases.

What has good passive pickups stock? I was thinking PRS..

 

[YellowJacket]

Ya, the production PRSs have great sounding pickups. I'm not familiar with their entry level SEs though.
Higher end Jacksons are also good. Ernie Balls. (Check out a Petrucci Signature Ernie Ball if they have one)
ESP. Try Ibanez with EMGs to compare actives with passives.

You'll be looking at anything that has a high output humbucker in the bridge position.

You probably won't see anything at GC stock with BKPs unfortunately, but they have a few nice guitars there. While a good guitar can be had below $500, try over $1,000 since these axes usually come stock with better pickups. Don't think about what you want to buy so much as what has a sound you like.

 

[Tone1026]

Well i think im going to go to the store tomorrow. When using my processor i usually have the levels set to what i percieve to be "line level" (halfway on the output), and out of curiosity i turned up the output to max, and ran just clean into the amp and lo and behold more saturation. what i was getting with the gain cranked to 5 and the pedal output halfway up, i am now getting with the gain on 2-3 and the pedal output maxed.

Slightly stronger signal than i get direct, not by a ton, not a big volume difference, but enough to add gain..

Has me curious to see how the amp will sound with a quality pick-up etc...

Thank you guys for all the help. Weak input signal seems to be the culprit..

 

[YellowJacket]

Awesome! I think you'll be happy with a quality pickup and a boost pedal! 8)

 

[JCDenton6]

I was hoping you would respond!,I get flub at 12-2 oclock.. i have to have the gain cranked to get 90's alternative gain. (STP, Pearl Jam..)

I had a burnt screen resistor, that was changed by a certified mesa tech, who checked the rest of the screen resistors. (you can read ALL about it under "Tubes") I don't remember him saying anything about checking LDR's though..

When certain LDR's responsible for channel switching fail, your amp can get stuck in certain modes and some tone circuits can get bypassed. (my amp had LDR failures a week after I bought it, it was stuck in vintage mode) Hope this helps.

It seems like weak input could be the issue here as others pointed out. Try a different axe with hotter pickups to rule this out!

Also check out the "pre 500 mod" thread if you want to take your recto to pre 500 specs, I did it and love it :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

 

[Tone1026]

Weird... when playing with earplugs gain sounds more saturated, I would think it would be the other way around... tone adjustments also seem far more dynamic...

Actually "Molten Red" sounds quite amazing with earplugs in... maybe im sitting to close? or maybe i was not turning it up enough to do its thing..?? :roll:

I'll say this... those settings on the manual are crazy loud... I usually don't turn the master past 9:30-10, theyre showing molten red at 11 oclock!?!?

 

[ryjan]

Weird... when playing with earplugs gain sounds more saturated, I would think it would be the other way around... tone adjustments also seem far more dynamic...

Actually "Molten Red" sounds quite amazing with earplugs in... maybe im sitting to close? or maybe i was not turning it up enough to do its thing..?? :roll:

I'll say this... those settings on the manual are crazy loud... I usually don't turn the master past 9:30-10, theyre showing molten red at 11 oclock!?!?

The room you're in makes a pretty big difference too. I usually play in a smallish room in my basement when I'm practicing alone and the bass from my Roadster bangs off the walls and ceiling pretty bad.

 

[YellowJacket]

Have you tried some guitars on your amp yet? I'm *Super* curious what the result of that will be.

Oh, yes. Ear Plugs sound phatter because of the high frequency rolloff.
I have found that a good rule of thumb for live is less gain with less bass because clarity means people can hear what you're playing.

As for **LOUD**, I'm convinced everyone at Mesa is half deaf. My Electra Dyne is thunderously loud set to 45watts with the volume at 9:00 and the recto is really no different. They sound more like a force of nature than an amplifier.

 

[Tone1026]

Have you tried some guitars on your amp yet? I'm *Super* curious what the result of that will be.

Haha me too, might go today. I'll be sure to post the verdict.

 

[Tone1026]

Well, I went to guitar center today, and played on a gibson, a ibanez 7, a prs, and a LTD w/ active pick-ups, and (drumroll please)
..............................................................

It's not the head, It's not my chord, nor is it my guitar...(though they might use upgrading) It's something to do with the cab, room i play in, or speaker cable (I have a decent quality 12ga speaker cable)
I played through a 2x12 Egnator (hey man thats what they gave me...) using a skinny little speaker cable..
My epiphone Les paul 7 str. sounded as good or better than anything else i played on..., and it sounded like it had substantially more gain that it did at my house ...(same guitar, same cable same head)

gain was good at 2:30, PLENTY at 3, and more than enough cranked... :shock: the gain i was "perceivably" getting at 1:30-2 at home i was getting at 10:30-11

I compared my amp with a 100w EVH and the gain on the mesa was actually quite competetive. 8)

maybe Its something to do with the fact that its a 3/4 back... to much sound coming out of the back of the amp and mixing w/ whats coming out of the front producing flub. :?

When i put earplugs in it mysteriously has more sizzle... seems backwards.. But at least its not the head

It could also be due in part that i was sitting higher than the speakers, as opposed to sitting next to my cab..


What if I custom sealed off the 3/4 back mesa cab? (not really looking to sell and buy atm)

 

[Tone1026]

HAHA heres my template

gotta make one for the bottom

 

[YellowJacket]

What kind of speakers are in your 3/4 back cab?

I still say to try a set of Bare Knuckles in there with new pots and caps

Make sure you get fairly high quality birch to seal the back. You don't want crummy cracking plywood for that! When you are in the market for a cab, you should try a Mesa Standard and Traditional 4 x 12!

 

[Tone1026]

black shadow mc90's

And hey man... its stained pine.... lol It's just temperary, it does have a LOT more punch out the fron end even without the hole in the bottom covered..
I do think i should upgrade electronics, but i was nice to ab it with that evh...

 

[YellowJacket]

Yes, the MC90s are not my first choice of speaker for a Recto. I like v30s, G12H 30s, Greenbacks, and WGS Reaper HPs for a Recto. Greenbacks are annoying because you require a fullstack to run any sort of volume. The v30s and G12H 30s make a nice blend. Also, 2 mc90s mixed with 2 v30s works really well. The Reaper HPs are killer speakers with a very flat response, crystal highs, and just the right amount of speaker roar. Plus, they don't break the bank!

 

[Tone1026]

Hey YellowJacket, want to look at amplified parts and see if the pot and caps you mentioned are on their site? Im placing an order for some other stuff and wanted to stick with one order (shipping)

 

[YellowJacket]

CTS Audio Taper Pots. You want the 500k ones.

http://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/R-VC-KA-SP

4 of these = $20 YAYS!!

They don't have any Paper in Oil caps that I could find but they do have these things.

http://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/C-MOD

0.022 uf FTW

They don't have any in stock =-(

You may want to get caps elsewhere? Try shopping at Mojotone for everything.
http://www.mojotone.com/guitar-parts/Les-Paul-Style-Guitar-Wiring-Kits