Nos Tubes in DR Results!!!!

[prsman88]

Keep in mind, these are my opinions from my test. Doesn't mean that the tubes I prefer are not great or wouldn't work in your own amp on your guitar for your sound.

Props to Shredd6 for his suggestions, preliminary tests, and time!

Gear:
Dual Rectifier Solo Heead (3 Channel)
Stiletto 4x12 Cab (v30s)
LTD EC 1000 (81/60)
Monster Rock Cable

Power tubes used were the stock Mesa STR 440's


Desired tone/sound

-Tight Metal thats clear, articulate, and punchy. I play in drop C.


RESULTS!!!

v1 - Telsa ECC83 vs RFT ECC83 vs RCA 12ax7a

-RFT had nice gain but little clarity, lacked articulation i was going for
-RCA was balanced, too balanced in my opinion for this spot. Didn't sound bad, just nothing outstanding to me.
-Tesla has beautiful highs, nice clarity, just right about of gain, nice chime to cleans


Tesla wins


v2 - Mullard ECC83

Didn't even try another here. Freaking amazing as far as mids, fullness, and clarity.


v3 - RCA 12ax7a vs GE 12ax7a kingsman

RCA really didn't impress me, kinda disappointed actually because of all of the hype (again in my opinion) too much gain for my lineup
GE ruled the rca. Great lows, fullness, clarity, not loose at all

GE 12ax7a wins


v4 - GE 12at7wa

Put it in and it surprised me more than the mullard. Cut some of the gain, but it smoothed out the sound. Made the amp cut really well. Loved it from the second I turned the amp back on.


v5 -ge 5751 vs rca 12ax7a

5751 - really didn't make much of a difference from my mesa tube to my ears so i was like hmmm, alright...... decided (after changing out the rca for the ge 12ax7 i'd try it due to your suggestion).....almost wet myself

RCA found its place. Driving my amp to freaking high gain heaven. Very balanced tube for the driver position


lineup recap

V1 - Tesla ecc83 (highs)
V2 - Mullard ecc83 (mids)
V3 - GE 12ax7a (lows)
V4 - GE 12at7wa (smooth, cleans up, good w/ effects)
v5 - RCA 12ax7a (added the gain back, lots of power, very BOLD attack


Thanks for the advice on the forums
It really all came down to the test

On paper I was going with

RFT ecc83
Mullard ecc83
RCA 12ax7a
GE 12at7wa
GE 5751

wouldn't have sounded bad but after the test it proved

it takes trial and error to find that right sound. noone else can find it for you!

Consider the NOOB, progressing! [/b]

 

[boola]

Did you try the mullard in V1?

 

[MusicManJP6]

I've been messing around with NOS tubes lately as well. I found the Mullard to be a little too dark for V1.

I currently have a Tung Sol in V1, Mullard in V2, RCAs in V3 and V4, and Raytheon in V5.

I may swap the V5 Raytheon with the V3 RCA since you like the RCA in V5 so much. I'd rather not wet my pants though! :lol:

I'd like to try a Tesla. That seems to be a favorite tube for V1 as well...

What about Telefunken?

 

[prsman88]

Well I am really new to this whole game. They only ones I have tried are these

Tesla ecc83
RFT ecc83
Mullard ecc83
GE 12ax7a long
RCA 12ax7a short
Ge 5751
Ge 6201

Those were based on Shredd6's suggestion.


Whats the word on Telefunken? Any one tried one. What are the tone characteristics of those?

What Tung Sol is it that you're using. What does it bring to the table?

I thought about trying a Raytheon because Timbre, I believe it was, said it was similar to an RFT in its breakup but it stayed cleaner as it was pushed harder. (don't quote me on that, but i think it was in one of his triaxis retubing posts) I could try on of those, because it was the lack of clarity from the rft that i didn't prefer. HOWEVER, it was the brightness of the Tesla that sold me.

I believe Timbre put it best:

the Tesla E83CC is unique in that it is a high-gain (lots of amplification) bright/clear tube

Anyone know any others that fit that description.

How are the NEW JJ Gold pins, they make the claim they are BETTER than the old tesla's. Could be interesting.

 

[MusicManJP6]

So I swapped the RCA in V3 with the Raytheon in V5 like I said I was going to do and although there is slightly less gain there is more clarity! I like it.

As for the Tung Sol - it is an old 50s Magnavox by Tung Sol 12AX7A. I tried it right after the Mullard and it just has a very balanced tone. I might swap the RCA and Tung Sol next. I really like the RCA in V1 for some reason. I'll try to swap V1 for a stock mesa and then go back to the Tung Sol and give you a better description of it's tonal characteristics.

We go on!

 

[prsman88]

awesome. the only reason i didn't use the rca in v1 is because the tesla has great highs and clarity. i liked it's brightness.

i tried 3 in the v1

tesla won (clear, bright, nice highs)
rca second (clear and balanced)
rft 3rd (good breakup, but just a lil too much for me)

have u tried

v1 - raytheon
v2 - mullard
v3 - rca (long plate if u have it)
v4 - rca
v5 - tung sol

possibly switch the v4 and v5 around

i wonder how that would sound given the raytheon has early breakup but still remains clear (from my understanding?) someone suggested the raytheon as an alternative to an RFT ecc83 (one of the tubes thats fastest to breakup)


Lemme know how the tests go.

p.s. I figured out that even though I am playing high gain metal, i DON'T have to have all high gain tubes. It helps to have some clear up the sound. (much like the 12at7 i have in v4)

 

[MusicManJP6]

I've heard of using an AT7 in the PI slot (V5) but not in the effects loop (V4) slot. Have you tried that AT7 in V5?

I'll have to try the Raytheon in V1. I stuck it straight in V5 and then to V3 just today. I'll move it on to V1 and see how it sounds.

 

[prsman88]

i have not tried the 6201 in the v5, i tried a ge 5751 in the v5. it had less gain, didn't sound bad, but after buying the rca i was determined to try it in a place it would work.

its in the v5 not for the sake of it being an rca, but it really did impress me there! Thanks to Shredd for the suggestion It added a high gain kinda power to my sound. def has a good punch. also a very balanced tube.

 

[prsman88]

I haven't asked them all yet. I was still fiddling with it, tweaking the beast so to speak before practice last night. My bass player liked it, said it sounded really good.

Will def let you know the feedback I get.

 

[MusicManJP6]

If the drummer comments on it then you can rest assured it must be an improvement! Most drummers know nothing of guitars or amp or tone for that matter. They just know about making noise. Haha.

BTW, i'll be swapping tubes this weekend if I get time. I'll be sure to try the Raytheon up front instead of the Tung Sol and such...

 

[prsman88]

Haha yea my drummer actually shows us some riffs (we hardly ever us em) but he knows a little about guitar.

My children my brides drummer, he writes like 98% of their guitar stuff. Pretty crazy huh? haha

Lemme know how it goes with the Raytheon!

I have a show tonight, I'll let you know what I think of my amp in action on stage!

 

[LG]

prsman, where'd you get those NOS Teslas from? If they were NOS. I believe the old Tesla's were actually called E83cc's. Same type tube just diff name types. If I can recall, I bought a Marshall 3203 Artist hybrid in around 1989-90 and I could swear up and down that that amp had Tesla's in it. Of course that was before I knew anything about tubes. Still don't know a lot but I'm learning from the informative posts here. I use a DR 3 channel and a Marshall JVM 410H and I'm just waiting to get my amp back from Boogie (burnt circuit board) to start the tube experiments. I'm strongly leaning towards all NOS Tele, Mullard, Tesla or an NOS RFT-which I already have- for V1 in both amps.. I play hard rock/metal. Hoping my amp comes in this week or next cause I also have a brand new Mercury Tanny and choke just waiting for action.

 

[prsman88]

Well I got my Tesla Ecc83 from Tube Monger. Its around the 60's as far as the year it was made i think. They are out now though. I can't find anymore actually. I am on the lookout for another as a backup.

I tried an RFT Ecc83 in my v1 and didn't like it as much as the tesla. The reason why is because it wasn't as clear and didn't have the highs. Thats just my opinion.

The dude @ Eurotubes suggested a JJ 12ax7 (Not gold pin) for a similar sound. He said it didn't have quite the highs as the tesla but he liked it better. That was his opinion.

I want to try a Rayethon Ecc83, TimbreWolf suggested it as an alternative to the RFT. He said it breaks up early but still retains clarity and articulation. I haven't personally tried one.

Let me know if u try a Telefunken in yours. I haven't tried one of those either.

I like my Mullard in the V2 for its midrange.

The upgrades yo u have done to the amp in addition to the preamp tubes should give u a killer sound!

Take Care
Nate

 

[LG]

Yeah got ya..Thanks Shredd. I did find some NOS Tesla's on Ebay. But you're right all I found was in pairs and fairly expensive. Although not near as expensive as the 10M Mullards or the long plate Mullards. Cheaper than most Tele smooth plates too. I've been waiting what seems like forever to get my amp back and unfortunately always find something that has slightly more priority than tubes. Like food! :lol: I hope it all happens eventually!

 

[212Mavguy]

Hi Shredd,

Bummer! Keep the faith on the Matsu-not-so-shittys...They also come in Realistic Lifetime label with gold pins and Raytheon registered made in Japan labels. I will keep an eye out for you and spam ya via PM, and if nothing shows up in a week PM me with your shipping address so I can send you one or two to try out temporarily.

BTW, I have bought tubes from that seller and the transactions were fine. Wierd...about what happened to you. Maybe an employee heard it in one of their amps and walked with it. :wink:

 

[212Mavguy]

Shredd, to to treat a repeat customer that way is not a good thing at all. I sympathize with you.

 

[Dead Moon Rising]

I haven't asked them all yet. I was still fiddling with it, tweaking the beast so to speak before practice last night. My bass player liked it, said it sounded really good.

Will def let you know the feedback I get.

Did you tell the bassist about the tubes before he heard it, or did you not say anthying and he spoke up first?

 

[prsman88]

haha i told him.

they def made a difference because i tried them one by one.

i am interested in actually trying some winged c el34s. my amp still sounds a little dark, even with the Better sounding tubes. they def made it more playable without an overdrive, however even with the overdrive i feel like i am still lacking something.

maybe guitar, pickups, technique, strings, gutiar setup....something is still not quite there.

def still searching but honestly more than the new guitar to my arsenal, and more than the overdrive, the tubes helped my "tone" more than the attack.

the attack and overall drive of the head is my focus now. thats why i am looking into a powertube upgrade because i have no idea what the strs are... mesa rebrands theirs...


so we'll c!

 

[212Mavguy]

Just tried out my Matsushitas Mav..

Interesting tubes indeed.. :wink:

What are your sonic impressions of them?

 

[212Mavguy]

Hi Shredd,

When my Matsushita's are unused or nearly so, the flashing is bright silver in color inside and out, when they are well used the flash gets browned or darker into gray. The unused ones are sonically brighter on top than any Mullard shortplate or Amperex shortplate I have. New ones have a top end almost if not as as bright as EI long silverplates in my experience...but of course, how they sound also is dependent on the amp they are running in. Sure hope you like yours.

Speaking of EI long silverplates, I got three quads a few years ago and have found them to be inconsistent in quality and resistance to microphonics. Would recommend getting at least a quad of them to get a really good one out of the group and would NOT run them in a combo amp... They will become microphonic more quickly than most other 12ax7's, look at how thin and wimpy their micas are...Peace.