New ((old) Dual Rec.

[Blackwater]

expired?

 

[Boogiebabies]

Turn down the bass and get those 5881's( these are not 6550's) out. Try a few different makes of 6L6's or even EL34's. If your clean is breaking up, turn down the bass and gain a bit.

 

[Blackwater]

Sorry, I was pondering the 6550's when typing 5881(6L6) and I have kicked the bass down and Gain which helped, but I lose a little of the overall tone I seek. When I kick down the Gain, I seem to lose saturation that I like.. Thank you for your response, I still have not learned all of the tricks and tips of the Boogie world yet. Which brings me to another topic....have any of you guys used 6550's in the DR or TR for that matter. I read some people love the outcome, I used 6550's in my Ashdown and it was so full and warm, but she is long gone.

 

[Boogiebabies]

Kick the gain back up then. When you hit 3:00 it is about all the gain you are going to get. After that it is compressed mush. I dont think a DR's OT could handle 6550's. Go to www.mesaboogie.com and read the DR owners manual. I think it is a great resource on how to dial them in. You have to keep tweaking to find the balance between preamp gain and power tube compression. After 20 years of looking for my ideal tone I settled on the MK IIC+ and MK IV. The money spent between them was absurd. You may never hear the tone in your head from any amp. You have to accept what the circuit can do. Also, you can try a Boss GE-7 in the loop. The tone contols can only do so much.

Welcome to our nightmare.

 

[Blackwater]

Thanks! Yeah I read the OM online and used some factory settings, which have some great tips just not my tone yet. I have heard the MK IIC+ and MK IV are Killer, but I have never played on one yet. I realized the gain just gets more compressed the further you push it, I just always seem to want to push it a little extra from 1-3 o'clock! Especially live which is a sound engineers pet peave. I did also realize less Bass = More tone and fullness. I am sure everybody is like " how can he not get a good tone" don't get me wrong the DR sounds killer, I just want a little more of the essence out of it, if that makes sense. So I just wondered if anybody had any little tricks that truly brought that extra life out of thier boogie? Also I totally realize your tone is 50% in the fingers, SRV and Hendrix are prime examples of "polishing turds" they could take any piece of **** amp and make it sound like the best amp ever, but I will never play in that caliber. DOn't think I won't try my damnest though! So thanks for the advice and I will keep searching..... I am sure I can bring mind numbing tone out of the DR it will just take more and more play and of course good advice always helps!!

 

[jbird]

I don't understand why your using the Orange channel for distortion, and the Red channel for cleans? That seems backwards! You want higher headroom cleans? Try the Orange channel cloned to Red(modern) on the clean setting (not variable Hi Gain)! The Red channel sounds cool either Modern or Vintage, I like Modern (w/EL34's)! I would also employ the Tube Rectification, rather than Silicon Diodes!
Note: My Dual Rec's a '99, I'm thinking the '95's had channel cloning or this guy aint got a clue what I'm spouting off!

 

[Boogiebabies]

Mesa used to suggest using the red for cleans. It has higher headroom and less signal to noise ratio's. I would really try a retube and go from there.

 

[oyster]

EL34
EL34
EL34
EL34
Change out the 6L6s then come back and let us know...you will have THE TONE. 8)

 

[TheRazMeister]

Someone suggested you cut back on the bass but from what I can tell you're cutting back too far on all the equalization. The tone controls on Mesa's are active, meaning they are part of the gain stage. If you add more treble/mid/bass and cut back the gain you might get a more responsive amp.
If not...2 words....LONESTAR CLASSIC

Greetings to the people of the board! ((newbie))

Basically I want the Clean...warm and CLEAN! no break up and the Distortion Warm and FULL bodied, not harsh!! any and all suggestions would be very much appreciated!! Sorry about the length I am sure I could have summed it up, but that is just how I am.

cheers,
jc

settings of the DR. (orange=distortion, Red=clean) Silicon Diode
Orange
Master:11 Presence:6 Bass:10 Mid:2 Treb:9 Gain:2
(settings based on clock hand rotation, not 0-10)

Red:
Master:5 Presence:8 Bass:10 Mid:2 Treb:8

Gear:

Custom ESP VIper (EMG 81/85)
Gibson Les Paul DC (p-90's)
Basson 4x12 (Emminence Legend 125's)
Sunn 4x12 (celestion GT-75's)
Crate Blue Voodo (Celestion Vintage 30's)
Pedals: Boss Giga Delay, Boss TU-2, Keely moded DS-1, Visual Sound H20, Wah from Hell, Digi tech guitar synth)

 

[Boogiebabies]

The tone controls are passive. It is a normal everyday tone stack.
The amount of equalization in the treble is what allows an amp to have a sense of more gain. Mesa's are often termed muddy, but they have a 1M bass pot so you need to be carful on how much is dialed in. What frequency do you want to be dominant?

 

[TheRazMeister]

Are you sure about that? I've always understood Boogies to be active.
From the Mesa Dual Rec manual:

Basically, a simple rule applies...as the Gain is increased the Tone control string has less and less effect on the signal until at 5:00
the signal is so saturated that you are getting mostly Gain and very little Tone. Again, this is the reason we suggest using the GAIN
Control in its middle region. Here the Tone control string is very active and provides maximum shaping power - allowing you to dial
virtually any sound you desire.
TREBLE : As with most guitar amplifiers, the TREBLE Control in both channels of your RECTO is the most powerful of the
rotary controls and is next in line only to the GAIN Control as a shaping tool. Because it is first in the signal path of the tome controls
- and from here the MIDDLE and BASS receive their signal - it is by far the dominant tome control. For this reason the setting of the
TREBLE Control is very important for equal representation of the three frequency regions to appear at their respective controls.
Like most of the controls on your RECTO, there is an optimum region
of the TREBLE Control where ample top end is mixed in and yet
enough signal is still passed on to the MIDDLE and BASS Controls.

The tone controls are passive. It is a normal everyday tone stack.
The amount of equalization in the treble is what allows an amp to have a sense of more gain. Mesa's are often termed muddy, but they have a 1M bass pot so you need to be carful on how much is dialed in. What frequency do you want to be dominant?

 

[RR]

The tone controls are passive. It is a normal everyday tone stack.
The amount of equalization in the treble is what allows an amp to have a sense of more gain. Mesa's are often termed muddy, but they have a 1M bass pot so you need to be carful on how much is dialed in. What frequency do you want to be dominant?

I agree with TheRazMeister when it comes to the Dual Rectifier Series and even the newer model series. The treble is interactive with the other tone control.

That is why someone not familiar with Boogie will not set the amp correctly and complain "mosquito tone" when they're at fault not knowing how to set the tone controls.

Mark I, II, III (not sure about the IV) tone controls are fairly passive like Fenders. Well that's what I experienced.

 

[tele_jas]

I would try the EL34's..... I expierimented with the 6L6's and EL34's last weekend and found the EL34's don't break up as quickly, but you will loose a bit of low end and gain a few more mids.

Has anyone suggested swapping out some preamp tubes yet? Supposidly the 12ax7 is a higher gain tube and can be replaced by a 12at7 which is milder. That might be a good place to look too?

Heck, if none of that works and you want to stick with the rectifers, I'd check out the older Triple rectifier. It's 150 wts, not really louder but it has more head room and won't break up as quickly. Just a thought.

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

What cab/speakers are you using with the DR? This can make a HUGE difference in where your clean starts to break up, especially at stage volume. Speaks with high power ratings generally hold together better for cleans, but overdriven tones can suffer (depending of course on the kind of sounds you want)

Dont really know how this would apply to a 2-ch DR, but for cleans on my 3-ch TR: bass 12:00, mid 12:30, treb 1:00, pres 2:00, gain 12:00, vol 2:30. You can get just a bit of hair if you pick hard, and it chimes nicely when picked soft. FWIW mahogany-bodied guitar, hot 'buckers, gtr vol wide open.

 

[RR]

Yeah, what about experimenting with speakers? Your collection includes Celestions GT-75s, Vintage 30s. Also try some Celestion Greenbacks, Anniversary, Heritage ... My opinion, Celestions work best with Dual Rectifiers.

Experiment using the tube rectifiers instead silicon diode. This smooth out the "edginess" if you are avoiding a metallic tone.

I have a Trem-o-Verb which is similar to Dual Rectifier and I was using 4x12" Vintage 30s. But I tried a pair of Fane Axions. These speakers really smooth out the edge. Looses metallic sound and leans toward classic rock. Still has 6L6s but it sound like a 1959 Marshall Super Lead. Not sure if this is your direction. :?

 

[Silverwulf]

Way too much high end in that tone. Depending on what type of guitar/pickups you're using, try these for a starting point:

Treble - 11 o'clock
Mids - 10 o'clock
Bass - 11 o'clock
Presence - 11 o'clock
Gain - 1 o'clock
Volume - 10 to 11 o'clock (if you're not using the Output Knob)

Start tweaking from there...you may have to compensate some for your pickups depending on what you're using by adding some highs, reducing some bass, etc...but just use those as a starting point. If you're using lower gain pickups, you can get away with using the gain slightly highy than that, but much more and you'll start losing definition. I'd leave it there and rely on my pick attack. Also, if you start turning the amp up louder than that, you may find yourself needing to back off the knobs more also.

For the clean tones, I really enjoy JJ's in my Recto's preamp. Really cleans up the sound and brightens it up. I don't use them in the power amp, though.

 

[Boogiebabies]

The tone controls are passive. It is a normal everyday tone stack.
The amount of equalization in the treble is what allows an amp to have a sense of more gain. Mesa's are often termed muddy, but they have a 1M bass pot so you need to be carful on how much is dialed in. What frequency do you want to be dominant?

I agree with TheRazMeister when it comes to the Dual Rectifier Series and even the newer model series. The treble is interactive with the other tone control.

That is why someone not familiar with Boogie will not set the amp correctly and complain "mosquito tone" when they're at fault not knowing how to set the tone controls.

Mark I, II, III (not sure about the IV) tone controls are fairly passive like Fenders. Well that's what I experienced.

It is a Marshall style tone stack with different value slope resistors and caps. There is nothing active. Active would be an electronically induced frequency by some type of powered equalizer. The DR has no more than resistors and capacitors in series with the signal before the phase inverter which put the EQ post gain. They are interactive, of course as they are in the signal path and the treble being the first in the string and thus the most dominant.It then feed the mids and bass. The Mark series amps use the old style Fender tones stack which is early in the preamp. These do act as tone controls, but also act as a type of volume control if one of the frequencies are cut to 0. Hence the graphic eq option which is an op-amp driven circuit to cut or boost frequencies after the gain stages. It drops in one(grid) side of the phase inverter and the presence drops in on the other(grid) and is then mixed and sent to the power amp.

 

[RR]

It is a Marshall style tone stack with different value slope resistors and caps. There is nothing active. Active would be an electronically induced frequency by some type of powered equalizer. The DR has no more than resistors and capacitors in series with the signal before the phase inverter which put the EQ post gain. They are interactive, of course as they are in the signal path. The Mark series amps use the old style Fender tones stack which is early in the preamp. These do act as tone controls, but also act as a type of volume control if one of the frequencies are cut to 0. Hence the graphic eq option which is an op-amp driven circuit to cut or boost frequencies after the gain stages. It drops in one(grid) side of the phase inverter and the presence drops in on the other(grid) and is then mixed and sent to the power amp.

Yes, I agree they're not active in that sense. Thanks for the explanation. I should of said the tone controls are 'interactive', if you will, with each other.
First time I played a Dual Rectifier, rather Trem-o-Verb, I set the tone control like a Fender. Ughhh ... misquito tone. Later the knowledge saleperson who has one himself re-set the tone controls, and wow, that was like Day and Night. Don't set the treble pass 1 O'clock, preferably 11 o'clock then set the other tone control accordingly.

Thank BoogieBabies, good explanation :wink:

 

[Blackwater]

Yes!!

Thats exactly what I wanted. I totally appreciate the suggestions!!!

 

[Boogiebabies]

The smaller logo is an older DR. The later 1999 and up, I beleive have the big Mesa logo. If the power cord is hardwired it is probably pre 1995-1996. The later ones used computer style power cords.