Need to tighten up my sound! IN ANY WAY possible

[lactose]

When I think of a loose amp sound (a lot of amps out there) versus a tight amp sound (Mark IV for example), I think of how it works with palm mutes. If you are picking and palm muting and hearing a lot of 'fuzz' it is loose.

My hypothesis about this is that the preamp stage is letting in too much low frequency, causing more blocking distortion that sounds good for blues, but I hate it with hi gain. (so should I buy a Road King II ?)

To test my hypothesis, I placed an EQ before the input pulling out the lo frequencies, then an EQ in the loop putting them back. I think this trick worked. Tube Screamers typically remove some bass frequencies which is why I think the tighten things up.

Here is a clip of my F-50. First with no EQ, then with EQ as described above. They sound pretty much the same except the first sample has that nasty fuzz when I palm mute.

http://www.think600.com/f50loose_tight.mp3

 

[NoGlassNoClass]

Some people like the amp better with the tube rectifier, but find the 5U4G's too spongy. If you are already using the diodes, the GZ-34's will do nothing for you, so save your money.

I think in my experience, many people find the diodes too stiff or produce too much low end, and the 5U4G's are too spongy. The GZ-34's are a good "in between".

-Steve

+1 I am one of "those people"
For a clean boost I'm currently using an MXR 10-band EQ set "flat" except the lowest frequencies rolled off and the output around +6 dB. Things are nice and tight until higher vol's (and we're talkin' LOUD), but I think that's just the V30's letting go. A speaker swap is coming soon, I can feel it.

 

[RyanDM]

When I think of a loose amp sound (a lot of amps out there) versus a tight amp sound (Mark IV for example), I think of how it works with palm mutes. If you are picking and palm muting and hearing a lot of 'fuzz' it is loose.

My hypothesis about this is that the preamp stage is letting in too much low frequency, causing more blocking distortion that sounds good for blues, but I hate it with hi gain. (so should I buy a Road King II ?)

To test my hypothesis, I placed an EQ before the input pulling out the lo frequencies, then an EQ in the loop putting them back. I think this trick worked. Tube Screamers typically remove some bass frequencies which is why I think the tighten things up.

Here is a clip of my F-50. First with no EQ, then with EQ as described above. They sound pretty much the same except the first sample has that nasty fuzz when I palm mute.

http://www.think600.com/f50loose_tight.mp3

Excellent test Lactose! What a difference. I wonder if there are any other tube guros that could chime in with an idea on a preamp tube swap that could accomplish what you are doing with your EQ Trick. I know I'd be curious. I am running EL34 tubes in my recto for the tight midrange shift - I would make it even tighter if I could. I am currently running stock mesa preamp tubes at the momment... Keep us posted on your findings! - Very cool.

 

[playdosboogies]

yea go with the diodes and suck some of those mids out.

 

[mrd]

Not sure if this applies to non-Road King rectifiers, but in the Road King, the treble pot is the first one to hit your signal and has the most drastic effect on your tone (or so says the manual). The more you turn it up, the less mid/bass actually take effect on the tone. I usually play with my treble between 12-1 and my bass on max sometimes and even in B standard (I play 70 gauge strings) I can chug the low B string and my amp chugs right along with me. I can hear each string hit percussively with a distinct break between each note which is what I assume you're after, yes? It almost sounds like very fast double bass drumming in a way.

Treble and presence work hand in hand as well, the more of each you have, the more they both effect the tone. Presence is a very fuckin sensitive knob (again, this is RK I'm talking about, perhaps a regular dual/trip. rect. is a bit different) for me, I usually have it around 12:30-ish. Any higher than that and I find you start getting a really scratchy tone as your actual pick attack gets magnified.

Have you read through your entire manual? I made the mistake of not reading all the way through mine at first and I was fuckin' lost with my amp so I went back and re-read it all and they give you lots of hints on what each knob does and how it does it and how it will affect your overall tone. They also explain how the tone knobs work with each other depending on their settings.

So yeah.. lower your gain/treb/pres a wee bit and check out your manual for other tips

 

[temps]

I finally figured out the treble and presence controls too... they are **** touchy and the effect they have on the bass and mid knobs is nuts. I've dialed them all down so most of the knobs are almost at noon give or take a little bit

I think right now presence is at 2o'clock, gain 1 o'clock, treble 1 o'clock, bass 11 o'block mid 12 o'clock plus a Maxon OD808 and new EL34s ... waaaaay better. definitely keeping my amp now.

 

[kflow]

I finally figured out the treble and presence controls too... they are **** touchy and the effect they have on the bass and mid knobs is nuts. I've dialed them all down so most of the knobs are almost at noon give or take a little bit

I think right now presence is at 2o'clock, gain 1 o'clock, treble 1 o'clock, bass 11 o'block mid 12 o'clock plus a Maxon OD808 and new EL34s ... waaaaay better. definitely keeping my amp now.

How have you dialed in your Maxon OD808?

 

[temps]

overdrive is just past 9 o'clock, tone is about 10 o'clock, balance is all the way up

If I am playing on a guitar with crappy pickups like my 7 string I'll turn the overdrive all the way up too, with my SLSMG though it gets a little fizzy

 

[mr_fender]

I'd say turn down the Gain on the amp. Most cats play with WAY too much distortion, and then wonder why their sound is mushy and loose. The gain knob does add more dirt and make it sound more heavy, but there is always a point where turning it up more just makes it more mushy and buzzy. Many players need to learn that a fat and heavy sound doesn't have to be super distorted. A lot of it is in your hands and playing technique.

If you want the ultimate secret in a super heavy tone here it is: Multi-tracking, Multi-tracking, Multi-tracking, Multi-tracking, Multi-tracking!!!!!!!! The heavy tones you hear on records is VERY rarely a single track, so you can't expect to get those same kinds of heavy yet tight and defined tones with just one amp on stage or one track in the studio. Some amps may do a better job at this than others, but there are always compromises somewhere.

You are far better layering two or more tracks worth of tight defined gain rather than diming the gain on one and/or putting stompboxes in front. If your not in the studio, try playing through two amps at once on stage. Even better, delay the split signal just a hair (5-10 ms) between the two amps, and your sound will be so huge it can strangle an elephant. This can open up some really cool sounds as you experiment with different combinations of amps and settings.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[JamesD]

I agree with the multi-tracking. I think i am going to take a different approach to my EQ'ing here soon. See if i can't get a good tone with less mud.

 

[mrd]

I'd say turn down the Gain on the amp. Most cats play with WAY too much distortion, and then wonder why their sound is mushy and loose. The gain knob does add more dirt and make it sound more heavy, but there is always a point where turning it up more just makes it more mushy and buzzy. Many players need to learn that a fat and heavy sound doesn't have to be super distorted. A lot of it is in your hands and playing technique.

If you want the ultimate secret in a super heavy tone here it is: Multi-tracking, Multi-tracking, Multi-tracking, Multi-tracking, Multi-tracking!!!!!!!! The heavy tones you hear on records is VERY rarely a single track, so you can't expect to get those same kinds of heavy yet tight and defined tones with just one amp on stage or one track in the studio. Some amps may do a better job at this than others, but there are always compromises somewhere.

You are far better layering two or more tracks worth of tight defined gain rather than diming the gain on one and/or putting stompboxes in front. If your not in the studio, try playing through two amps at once on stage. Even better, delay the split signal just a hair (5-10 ms) between the two amps, and your sound will be so huge it can strangle an elephant. This can open up some really cool sounds as you experiment with different combinations of amps and settings.

Just my 2 cents worth.

True speak. I've never heard that delayed amp trick though, that sounds like a wicked idea though :lol:

 

[PolishSasquatch]

the 5-10ms delay tign through 2 amps soudns liek it would be amazing! some really creazy boom cna be created with that. i dont want to read through all of page 2, so dunno if sumone psoted this. But i recently started using my pedal with my dual rec again and i equed the pedla and holy hsit it makes a hella difference. i have a very very slight OD with O bass on it, volume on 2/10 and presence at 3/10 and it really tightens it up. Extremly responsive now. it colours my clean channel a tiny bit, but i dont sue it that much. does wonders for my leadfs as well. almsot no fizz at super low volumes and when u turn it up sodsun magical (at least to me) heres a clip of my lead tone boosted witha x-vamp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQhLKmHnOC8
then again im also using delay and reverb, but nonetheless, its a big diff even without them

 

[Machine Gun]

So I'm in the same boat here. I need to tighten up my RK. Man, I was so use to the Mark IV, now I need to get another one! The Mark IV is an awesome piece of equipment!!!! Period!

Anway, what's better, an OD pedal or an EQ or both together? What are you guys using for EQ's? Pedals? Anyone tried a Boss EQ-20 Advanced EQ? I'd like something quiet if that's the way to go. Never used OD's in front of a tube amp, so I'm new to that.